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Posted: 12/18/2002 4:17:26 PM EDT
| Whats the best cleaner to use if you have corrsive ammo to get rid of carbon. I use Break-Free currently to clean all my guns |
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1) What corrosive ammo do you have in mind? It is a relative term, including in what guns. 2) Carbon is not my main concern in this case, corrosion is. The same chemicals that make military ammo reliable over a wide span of temperatures and years are the same components that make it corrosive. Salts, in varied degrees in primers and/or powders. Conventional cleaners, including CLP, do not neutralize the salts. This requires some ammonia in the mix, ranging from Windex type glass cleaner to Sweets 7.62 Solvent. Ammonia also causes chrome to flake, so the chamber and bbl of some guns really need to be cleaned/dried of the ammonia cleaner before the remaining cleaning can be done. Empire Arms has a very good section, on the left list of their page, on how to clean milsurps after shooting corrosive ammo. Expecting a follow up post....... |
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1) I'm not sure how corrsive the ammo is, its from late 70's and its from Czech.its in the 7.62x54R caliber some of the bullets have a metal case and a silver tip I also have some washed copper ones with black tip ammo (tugusten cored), also have a few rounds of tracers and API ammo (which I know is highly corrsive) the gun is a Romak3 all bullets are in the 148 grain weight. |
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I can't help on the cleaning issue (I always just sprayed GUN SCRUBBER) but I think you are confusing Tungsten with mild steel cored ammo Tungsten ammo is not presently legal (but most of us would love to have it if it was legal.) Tungsten is the next best thing to DU ammo |
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On any milsurp 54r ammo, I first run a dry patch to get the big stuff out, then run a damp (wet yes/dripping no) patch of Sweets 7.62 down the bore. Take the patch off and use it to wipe the bolt face also. If I had a Romak 3, I would also run a moist patch over the gas system. On a field stripped gun, this should not take over a minute. The use dry patches to remove any 'wet' from the Sweets. Since this product strips oil as well as neutralize salts, repeat the patch process with your favorite clean/lube product. Sweets is not mandatory, but ammonia in the product is needed for corrosive ammo. About 10% is fine, not straight ammonia, as it can hurt any paint/wood it is spilled upon. |
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The Amonia and Soaps in sweets will dissolve the salts. Shooters Choice will also knock them out and I have used this mainly when cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo. One product raved about for corrosive ammo that I am wanting to try is one called 'ballistoil' IIRC. It is mixed with cold water and allows you to use cold water to dissolve the salts without worring about residual water causing corrosion. Ballistol is supposed to have exceptional anti-corrosive properties. BTW, 7.62x54R is a rifle only caliber and all AP ammo, even tungsten if you can get it, is perfectly legal to buy, own and shoot. Same with .30-06. The problem is 7.62 NATO as there are some handguns, believe it or not, in that caliber. |
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First of all, there are no levels of corrosiveness. Ammo is either corrosive or not. It's like being pregnant or dead, either you are or you are not. This is something I am going to add to the FAQ section as soon as time permits after the new year. That being said, there are MANY ways to clean. I prefer the hot soapy water method. It has never failed me. Ammonia seems to work very well. I know a lot of guys who take windex to the range with them. It is a lot less messy than my method. I think Sweets 7.62 has a high ammonia content. Damn stuff makes me sick to be around if I smell it. Many people use it well, but the trick is, to get all exposed parts cleaned as soon as possible. You can try the old 1950's era G.I. corrosive bore cleaner. I have tons of it, but don't spill it. It smalls like sewage! |
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I also use the hot, soapy water method. That's what I use on my Romak-3 and it still looks new, regardless of how much corrosive I shoot out of it. The way to do it is to get a bucket of hot, soapy water and put the muzzle in the water. Then use a rod and patch to "pump" the water throughout the barrel. Then I clean it just as though it has been in the rain. I use CLP for the cleaning after the water treatment. For the gas system, you could either invert the gun so that soapy water gets in the gas system, but then you have to deal with the water and you'll still be cleaning in there anyway no matter what. If I have shot alot of ammo, I'll invert it and get it wet, since I'm going to have to clean it anyway. If not, I just clean it like normal with CLP. The bolt is probably the most important part after the bore. The firing pin, hole, extractor, those crevices, and the bolt face should be cleaned well. I use CLP here as well. After I do all that (which except for the water part, isn't any more than normal firearm cleaning) I run a wet patch down the bore once a day for the next three days. This is probablly an old Army wives tale that has been ingrained in me, but I do it and it hasn't failed yet. I just use a Springfiled pull through and run the patch through. Takes all of 5 seconds and it's always fun to "bond" with any AK-type anyway. If you don't shoot it again for a while, check it in a week or so to make sure nothing's growing in there. It's better to catch it early, than let something rust. USGI RBC (Rifle Bore Cleaner, the old stuff that the US used before CLP) will get rid of corrosive pretty well, but it's just a solvent. Sorta a GI version of Hoppes #9. So you still need a lubricant, like LSA or CLP afterwards. I too have gallons of this, and it works great for this task. Ober's right, don't skip on corrosive cleaning procedures just because it's billed as "mildy corrosive", or "slightly corrosive". It's not like you fire a shot and your barrel starts melting from the corrosive ammo or something either. I mean it's not like Alien blood that will eat right through a barrel in ten seconds flat. I shoot corrosive all the time and have never had one problem with it. Just CYFG afterwards. And like I said, it's the same as cleaning it for non-corrosive with just a few differences. No big deal to do it right. Big deal if you don't. Ross edited to add CLP stands for Cleaner, Lubricant, Protectent and is the military term for Break-Free, which is a trade-name. You probably already know that, but someone else reading this may not. |
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Ross, thanks, I have tons of CLP (get the big bottles at a surplus store out in Mansfield OH, for $1.00 each) I had no idea that it was Break Free. I have talked to many people about Hoppes #9 about cleaning corrosive ammo. Just about everyone says "not to count on it totally" |
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The Army changes the milspec every once in a while for CLP, but it's usually for production variance resons, etc. When it first came out, it was issued to us in commercial "Break-Free" bottles. Later more mundane USGI packaging was introduced, but then it was only the printing on the bottles that really changed. "Break-Free" has several different products out that may or may not be the same as GI CLP depending on the product. But the standard stuff is the same. I should have called Hoppes #9 a "civilianized" or "watered down" version of RBC. USGI RBC is way more potent and much thincker than Hoppes obviously. Of course the formula for the two is different, but I figure if Hoppes will take off nickel plate, it will do OK for Czech silvertip. USGI Rifle Bore Cleaner is THE BEST for cleaning IMO. But it does require you to use LSA/CLP afterwards or you run just as much risk of ruining your gun from no lubrication or protection as you do from firing corrosive in the first place. Ross |
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