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Posted: 5/18/2010 12:01:12 AM EDT
| I noticed the bashing on Lancaster lately, what is it about Lancaster that has been sucking lately? I bought 2 Lancaster's about a year ago and they seem fine. Is this just something recent? What type of issues should I be looking for? |
| Lancaster Rough Rider. The rifle batters itself apart in very few rounds and is unsafe to fire. They then tried to lie and cover up the issues, waiting as long as possible before issuing any recall. Not to mention they lie to people about when their rifles will be shipped, or even built for months on end. Their other rifles are good to go from what I understand, but if you are having one built or ordering direct from them, be prepared for a few months worth of a runaround. |
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Lancaster Rough Rider. The rifle batters itself apart in very few rounds and is unsafe to fire. They then tried to lie and cover up the issues, waiting as long as possible before issuing any recall. Not to mention they lie to people about when their rifles will be shipped, or even built for months on end. Their other rifles are good to go from what I understand, but if you are having one built or ordering direct from them, be prepared for a few months worth of a runaround. So it's only the rough rider? I have the 3060 with the polished bolt carrier and russian red stock set, 45 degree gas block. |
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I noticed the bashing on Lancaster lately, what is it about Lancaster that has been sucking lately? US made barrels. U.S. made barrels are no good? The ones Lancaster was using were defective. Some of the 5.45 caliber barrels had gas ports which were too large. Some of the stainless barrels were apparently soft, since the rifling wore extremely quickly. |
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Lancaster Rough Rider. The rifle batters itself apart in very few rounds and is unsafe to fire. They then tried to lie and cover up the issues, waiting as long as possible before issuing any recall. Not to mention they lie to people about when their rifles will be shipped, or even built for months on end. Their other rifles are good to go from what I understand, but if you are having one built or ordering direct from them, be prepared for a few months worth of a runaround. So it's only the rough rider? I have the 3060 with the polished bolt carrier and russian red stock set, 45 degree gas block. If yours is built from all Bulgarian (or whatever country the parts kit was from, maybe Romanian) parts, chances are very high that your rifle is just fine. I haven't heard of any major issues with their 7.62 rifles. I'll still never buy a lancaster 
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they took my black furnature off my ak74 when they replaced the barrel, he( john) asked me if i would accept nice bulgarian wood just to get my rifle back and shoot it. i told him yeah i want my rifle back asap. I called last week and spoke to chet, I told him what had happend and he appoligized and said hell send me new furnature and i can keep the wood as a spare set for the trouble. He also said john would be calling me later on, well john called me back and asked what color i wanted, i told him i would try plum this time around.....Well 4 days later i got a new set of bulgarian plum. So far they been good to me and I have to give credit when credit is due....i know ill probably getflamed by sticking up for them but i cant be mad...heres my completed rifle, its got plum and a new bulgarian barrel
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Here's the situation, as I have come to understand it. I'm not an expert, but have loosely followed the saga, as I am a Lancaster owner.
Lancaster, as recently as 2 years ago, was considered by many to be top-of-the-line. At some point they began selling directly to consumers, instead of only to dealers, and things went south from there. (They may have always sold to consumers and the problems only turned up after the post-election buying craze, IDK) There were many complaints (some voiced repeatedly) about false promise-times, and poor customer-relations in general. All of these were signs that the company was clearly not set-up for the onslaught of AK connoisseurs who wanted a "custom-built" whatever for their collections, and they wanted it direct from the source. Then the lid on the coffin dropped when they introduced their AK-74 Ranch Rifle. Apparently they got a batch (or two) of bad barrels with improper specs, failed miserably with their quality control, and sent out a bunch of junk. They took some time to address the situation and many people were upset. From what I know, they have since corrected the problem and have replaced/repaired the affected rifles. (some say "too little, too late") You should consider that these ranch rifles were marketed as being "rough truck-guns," with a parkerized finish, and priced substantially lower than their normal line-up. That's not an excuse, but worth noting. Some dealers made the situation worse by playing down the "rough" part and marketing them as "Lancaster quality" at a special sale price. Other dealers helped by exchanging customers guns and sorting it out with Lancaster themselves. The bottom line is that Lancaster got in way over their head when dealing-direct with the public. Their customer relations are horrible and their billing practices are even worse, if all the claims are true. However.....they do put together a fine AK-47, and as long as you ONLY PURCHASE FROM A DEALER, you should be very pleased with your purchase. I ordered mine from Atlantic (before the election), and could not be more pleased. The fit and finish is as good, or better, than any Arsenal I've seen. With a 2 M.O.A. red dot I can hit 3" clays at 100 yards with boring regularity, and with irons I'm down to about 3 out of 5, but that's my fault. If you find a good deal on a Lancaster AK-47, don't hesitate. If you find a great deal on an AK-74, you might want to think twice. |
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At some point they began selling directly to consumers, instead of only to dealers, and things went south from there. (They may have always sold to consumers and the problems only turned up after the post-election buying craze, IDK) They always sold to consumers in Arizona, they were at gun shows before anyone on the boards ever heard about them or vendors began carrying their rifles. |
The 5.45 issues were not limited to the Rough Rider series, If that would have been the case I'd still be the proud owner of a Bulgarian red wood stocked model sadly mine was crap  . As it is I'm now the proud owner of an Arsenal 7.62 plum model  . Still want a 5.45 rifle though loved the caliber.
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The 5.45 issues were not limited to the Rough Rider series, If that would have been the case I'd still be the proud owner of a Bulgarian red wood stocked model sadly mine was crap . As it is I'm now the proud owner of an Arsenal 7.62 plum model . Still want a 5.45 rifle though loved the caliber.Get a Saiga |
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Lancaster Rough Rider. The rifle batters itself apart in very few rounds and is unsafe to fire. They then tried to lie and cover up the issues, waiting as long as possible before issuing any recall. Not to mention they lie to people about when their rifles will be shipped, or even built for months on end. Their other rifles are good to go from what I understand, but if you are having one built or ordering direct from them, be prepared for a few months worth of a runaround. So it's only the rough rider? I have the 3060 with the polished bolt carrier and russian red stock set, 45 degree gas block. If yours is built from all Bulgarian (or whatever country the parts kit was from, maybe Romanian) parts, chances are very high that your rifle is just fine. I haven't heard of any major issues with their 7.62 rifles. I'll still never buy a lancaster That's good to know as mine is 7.62x39, and I think its a Romanian kit since it has a big "G" under the rear sight. |
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lancaster used it's customers as guinea pigs to test barrels out that were never put through the paces. century has never totally fixed it's tantal barrel problem why would anyone think the next manufacturer offering u.s. made 5.45 barrels would get it right? they didn't. just look back at all the back and forth between me and stephennw on this issue. the arguement was that if we can make ar15 barrels we can make ak74 barrels. atlantic even piped in and said they sold pallets of them. well, it didn't matter how many pallets were sold, the guns were still fucked up. as soon as the weather started breaking a little warmer and folks got their lancaster 74's out and started throwing lead downrange, the problems started coming out of the woodwork. keyholing, premature wear, and trunnions coming loose. all due to shitty, cheap barrels. like i told stephen over and over. let someone else buy a new untested product, hell they wouldn't even tell us who the barrel manufacturer was! at this same time tgi was selling a bulgarian manufactured 74 with original barrels for $399, a true bargain, the tgi guns got bashed by the lancaster fanboys. for whatever reason people kept touting the lancaster 74's with u.s. barrels as good to go, many people bought rifles from lancaster based on what they read here, they got screwed due to people talking out their asses without having any real firsthand information..... my logic was this. if a decent quality ar15 barrel runs $200 then how the hell could lancaster buy a 74 kit, a receiver, a barrel, labor to put it together and all for under $400? it's all because these were $69 barrels that were cheap pieces of shit. |
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this is my first hand experience with a lancaster rough rider. i may make a new post with pictures from beginning to end.
-ordered a rough rider from aim in november or december 09 -picked my rifle up from ffl in december 09 -shot about 200 rounds. i didn't think the cases being ejected 20-30ft was not normal. this was my first ak74 -read horror stories and threads about rifles being fucked up -read more and learned the rifle beats itself to failure where the rear trunnion gets battered and the rivets bend; dust cover becomes loose then pops off when rivets/trunnion are beat up enough -root cause of failure was an overly large gas hole drilled in the barrel -i checked my dust cover and noticed it had a fair amount of play; i didn't check how tight the dust cover was when the rifle was new. -bryan from aim said shoot it some more and see if anything changes -i read a few members alluded to lancaster promising to replace faulty barrels with bulgarian barrels, but everyone is skeptical. -i go to the range a few months ago (i think march) and shoot a few hundred more rounds when my dust cover pops up -bryan contacted lancaster for me, and provided an account number so i could get it shipped on lancaster's dime -i ship the rifle -john from lancaster calls me the day after they receive it to let me konw they have it. -i can't remember if it was john or a josh, but someone calls me from lancaster a few days later to let me konw they're working on my rifle and the rear trunnion is beat to shit and needs replacement. they'll also be refinishing my rifle in black. -2 weeks or so later i get notification from them that the rifle will be shipping out shortly, and lancaster kept their word -i get a tracking number -i contact lancaster to see if they can forward the rifle to work since i won't be home to sign for it; they call fedex and put in the request. i verified that fedex received a request from lancaster to change the target address -when the package arrives in houston, fedex claims they won't let the package be forwarded because it's adult signature required, even if the shipper requests it. -i pick the rifle up from fedex -rifle has a bulgarian barrel, and is refinished in black. lancaster also threw in a plum izmash mag. -i'm satisifed. -i think i had a good experience, because of all the pissed off customers and attorney general and bbb calls/threats that came before me. ETA damn i cant spell for shit |
| Had a very limited buget and did my reserch in Dec 09 and Jan10 and got the Lancaster RR Bulgy 74 thru Atlantic.Several hundred rounds and no issues as of yet,my serial number was not on the recall list so I feel like I hit the Lotto.I will be more prudent with what ever else I buy in the future though.That was my 1st AK and you have to start somewhere,I can only go up from here. |
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The problem is Chet is a pathological liar. All other problems stem from that one, which unfortunately can't be "fixed" by swapping parts. YUP that pretty much sums it up right there!! +2. And that’s why doing any business with Lancaster is a bad idea. When a company is owned and its daily operations are run by a person who is fundamentally dishonest, a whole lot of other problems can (and often will) stem from that. Certainly, that’s been the case with Lancaster. And because that’s been the case, I would no more buy a rifle from them, than I would buy a car from a dealership that was well-known for routinely lying and selling shoddy goods. Of course, some people say, “Well, I’ve never been ripped off by them, so they’re good to go.” And while I don’t doubt those positive experiences, the fact that you haven’t been ripped off yet doesn’t change the fundamental problem with Lancaster one bit: the owner is a liar who won’t think twice about ripping you off or lying to you if it suits his needs. Thus, as long as Lancaster is still owned by the same person, doing business with Lancaster is always going to be a gamble. And as with all gambles, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. Each person needs to decide how much they feel like gambling when buying a Lancaster gun, and how much hassle they’re willing to put up with if they wind up losing that gamble, as many have. |
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lancaster used it's customers as guinea pigs to test barrels out that were never put through the paces. century has never totally fixed it's tantal barrel problem why would anyone think the next manufacturer offering u.s. made 5.45 barrels would get it right? they didn't. just look back at all the back and forth between me and stephennw on this issue. the arguement was that if we can make ar15 barrels we can make ak74 barrels. atlantic even piped in and said they sold pallets of them. well, it didn't matter how many pallets were sold, the guns were still fucked up. as soon as the weather started breaking a little warmer and folks got their lancaster 74's out and started throwing lead downrange, the problems started coming out of the woodwork. keyholing, premature wear, and trunnions coming loose. all due to shitty, cheap barrels. like i told stephen over and over. let someone else buy a new untested product, hell they wouldn't even tell us who the barrel manufacturer was! at this same time tgi was selling a bulgarian manufactured 74 with original barrels for $399, a true bargain, the tgi guns got bashed by the lancaster fanboys. for whatever reason people kept touting the lancaster 74's with u.s. barrels as good to go, many people bought rifles from lancaster based on what they read here, they got screwed due to people talking out their asses without having any real firsthand information..... my logic was this. if a decent quality ar15 barrel runs $200 then how the hell could lancaster buy a 74 kit, a receiver, a barrel, labor to put it together and all for under $400? it's all because these were $69 barrels that were cheap pieces of shit. Well, you got 50% of your facts correct. I suppose that's an improvement. 
If you want an itemized list of your errors, I'll be happy to provide it. Just let me know. |
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I've also had bad luck with Lancaster. It's been over 7 weeks since I placed my order, and over a week since I cancelled. They took my money up front, and haven't refunded. So now I don't have the gun OR the money. I wont rehash all the details, since I've already posted them here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=4312827#post4312827 The short version is that most of what I've read on this post syncs right up. Not set up for private sale, bad customer service, and repeated delays as a result of not being upfront about the real turnaround time. If it's going to take months, then tell me so I can factor that into my original buying decision, for crying out loud. And to echo the idea that this might be a recent thing, my uncle bought one over a year ago and was very happy. Of course he mentioned waiting months to get it, but I assumed he knew that when he ordered his. |
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I've also had bad luck with Lancaster. It's been over 7 weeks since I placed my order, and over a week since I cancelled. They took my money up front, and haven't refunded. So now I don't have the gun OR the money. I wont rehash all the details, since I've already posted them here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=4312827#post4312827 The short version is that most of what I've read on this post syncs right up. Not set up for private sale, bad customer service, and repeated delays as a result of not being upfront about the real turnaround time. If it's going to take months, then tell me so I can factor that into my original buying decision, for crying out loud. And to echo the idea that this might be a recent thing, my uncle bought one over a year ago and was very happy. Of course he mentioned waiting months to get it, but I assumed he knew that when he ordered his. The solution is real simple. Call your credit card company and explain to them that you cancelled an order over a week ago, but that the company - which has a history of not issuing refunds in a reasonable amount of time - has still not credited your account. Your credit card company will do the chargeback, and will deal with Chet on your behalf. It is unfortunate that Chet Durda has to be forced into doing the right thing, but he's proven time and time again that he does indeed have to be forced. It would take all of 2 minutes for him to issue your refund, and if he hasn't done it by now, clearly it's not much of a priority for him. |
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The solution is real simple. Call your credit card company and explain to them that you cancelled an order over a week ago, but that the company - which has a history of not issuing refunds in a reasonable amount of time - has still not credited your account. Your credit card company will do the chargeback, and will deal with Chet on your behalf. depends on when lancaster stopped taking credit cards. pretty big warning sign there. i hope no one actually sent them a check or MO. |
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The solution is real simple. Call your credit card company and explain to them that you cancelled an order over a week ago, but that the company - which has a history of not issuing refunds in a reasonable amount of time - has still not credited your account. Your credit card company will do the chargeback, and will deal with Chet on your behalf. depends on when lancaster stopped taking credit cards. pretty big warning sign there. i hope no one actually sent them a check or MO. No, a chargeback can still be done even on a vendor that isn't accepting credit cards any longer. But its a moot point anyway, 'cause you want to hear a dirty little secret? Lancaster is still accepting credit cards. They simply prefer you don't use a credit card, because they know if you use a credit card, you might actually have some recourse and leverage when they dick you over. And we can't have that, now can we? I don't want to disclose how I know this, but if anyone doubts me, call Lancaster and tell them you want to buy a rifle but you can only use a credit card. Try not to act surprised when they say "OK." So yeah, their "No credit cards accepted" statement on their website is false. But then, is anyone really surprised that Lancaster would say something that isn't true? I swear, Chet Durda truly is a pathological liar. It's almost funny. Almost. |
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The solution is real simple. Call your credit card company and explain to them that you cancelled an order over a week ago, but that the company - which has a history of not issuing refunds in a reasonable amount of time - has still not credited your account. Your credit card company will do the chargeback, and will deal with Chet on your behalf. It is unfortunate that Chet Durda has to be forced into doing the right thing, but he's proven time and time again that he does indeed have to be forced. It would take all of 2 minutes for him to issue your refund, and if he hasn't done it by now, clearly it's not much of a priority for him. Agreed. I'm giving them 24 hours to respond to today's e-mail about the issue, and then I'm contacting the credit card company. Thank God I used a card, instead of paying by check! And I have to brag for a minute, if only to help others out. I called it quits with Lancaster just 7.5 weeks into this ordeal - much shorter than most who have complained of orders and refund requests spanning *months*. And I did so before reading all these posts about them. Why? I have a simple rule that I first formed on CraigsList. Lack of trust is enough reason by itself to kill a deal. I've inquired about an item for sale on that site before, and had people say "I have someone coming, but if you get here first, it's yours.". I decline, because I won't deal with someone who has just proven themselves dishonest (in their dealing with the other buyer). The same thing held true for Lancaster. When I heard the recycled excuse of heat-treating, I knew I'd been lied to at some point. All other delays to that point *could* have been possible. And once I knew that, I had to cancel no matter how much I wanted that gun, and wanted to believe this time it really was just a week away. I even gave them a chance to explain first, but they didn't. Cutting my losses sooner has probably saved me a lot of time getting my money back. |
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My experience was identical to many of yours... bought in December 2009 from Atlantic... 400+ rounds later this spring and I sent it back to Lancaster... blah blah blah... replacement trunion, Bulgarian barrel and a refinish and the gun is scheduled for FedEx delivery tomorrow. In the mean time I ordered a TGI Classic Bulgy ($499) with new birch stock set which looks and shoots like a champ. I will let you know how the Lancaster runs after I receive it and put 400-500 rounds through it.
We all get to take a bite out of the shit sandwich sometimes and I've had my one bite with Lancaster. My 2 |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The solution is real simple. Call your credit card company and explain to them that you cancelled an order over a week ago, but that the company - which has a history of not issuing refunds in a reasonable amount of time - has still not credited your account. Your credit card company will do the chargeback, and will deal with Chet on your behalf. depends on when lancaster stopped taking credit cards. pretty big warning sign there. i hope no one actually sent them a check or MO. No, a chargeback can still be done even on a vendor that isn't accepting credit cards any longer. But its a moot point anyway, 'cause you want to hear a dirty little secret? Lancaster is still accepting credit cards. They simply prefer you don't use a credit card, because they know if you use a credit card, you might actually have some recourse and leverage when they dick you over. And we can't have that, now can we? I don't want to disclose how I know this, but if anyone doubts me, call Lancaster and tell them you want to buy a rifle but you can only use a credit card. Try not to act surprised when they say "OK." So yeah, their "No credit cards accepted" statement on their website is false. But then, is anyone really surprised that Lancaster would say something that isn't true? I swear, Chet Durda truly is a pathological liar. It's almost funny. Almost. Been keeping up with this RR problem having bought one myself back in Dec, 09 from one of the vendors. Mine started showing the already well known symptons, so I contacted the vendor and he said he'd have Lancaster issue a call tag and I could get a credit towards another rifle. Well the more I thought about it I wondered why the vendor wouldn't issue a refund, after all this vendor was now well aware of all the problems and what if one of these rifles malfunctioned to the point of actually hurting someone, wouldn't he be just as liable as Lancaster ? I may be wrong about the legal aspects, but I thought the vendor should be held accountable as well as Lancaster and I didn't hear of any of them stepping up to the plate and offering to take back the defective rifles. To make a long story as short as possible, I contacted Lancaster directly , they issued a call tag & Fed-Ex picked up the rifle. I told Lancaster I wanted my money back, they attempted to argue with this point, but I held firm and finally they agreed to a refund. They did their best to delay the refund with lie after lie. Hell I called them just about every day because I knew they were intentionally dragging their feet in an attempt to wear me down. In the meantime I contacted the AG of AZ and filed a complaint. The last time I spoke with them, I got this " We got your letter from the AG and a check has been issued to you " and the dude had a very surly attitude. So I said , prove it, I want a faxed copy or scan & email me a copy of this check. I could tell someone was pissed off because I could hear them talking in the bcakground saying in a nasty tone" Send him a fax , I tried of dealing with this guy ". They did send a faxed copy and a few days later I got my refund. So to anyone having problems with this bunch, I feel for you, but you got to take action and not let them give you the run around, stand your ground, the AG will help and to the vendors whom profitted from these rifles, all I can say is Fuck You, another compnay will get my business. |
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My experience was identical to many of yours... bought in December 2009 from Atlantic... 400+ rounds later this spring and I sent it back to Lancaster... blah blah blah... replacement trunion, Bulgarian barrel and a refinish and the gun is scheduled for FedEx delivery tomorrow. In the mean time I ordered a TGI Classic Bulgy ($499) with new birch stock set which looks and shoots like a champ. I will let you know how the Lancaster runs after I receive it and put 400-500 rounds through it. We all get to take a bite out of the shit sandwich sometimes and I've had my one bite with Lancaster. My 2 You must have bought your Lancaster Lemon about the same time and the same place I did. Good luck in your dealings with Lancaster. I took a different route because I could afford to and I didn't want to dicker with these people. I sent mine to Troy Sellars and had a new REAL BULGARIAN barrel properly installed/headspaced and had him completely refinish the rifle. Now I have a real Bulgarian ak-74 clone that functions fine and will last for thousands of rounds - not that I shoot all that much anyway. Note that I only fired 20 rounds through mine. That was enough to realize that the recoil was NOT right. When your ak-74 clone has more recoil than a .308 and sounds like a cannon going off, you know something is not right. My rifle would have shot itself apart within a few hundred rounds. To state the obvious, Lancaster made a BAD business decision going with the low bidder for barrels for the RRs. I could and would have paid another $150.00 for it originally if I would have known that it would have meant getting a decent barrel versus getting a dicked up barrel. I did not buy mine specifically because of the low price. I bought mine because of the good comments about Lancaster that were posted on AR15.com up until that time. This was the first bad advice that I have ever gotten from reading AR15.com posts, by the way. Normally, our members really know their shit and share knowledge with us all. I played with the bull and I got the horns this time though. Not another penny of my money ever again, Lancaster. Not one more penny. |
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This was the first bad advice that I have ever gotten from reading AR15.com posts, by the way. Normally, our members really know their shit and share knowledge with us all. I played with the bull and I got the horns this time though. Not another penny of my money ever again, Lancaster. Not one more penny.
I was in the same boat. Bad advice might be little to harsh, as the problems were not known until, well maybe I was the first one to have this happen (first post about it IMO here) From now on any and all firearms I purchase go through a ringer of research, much more so than before (which was a lot) and I still will refer to posts here on ARFCOM over most any other outlets when it comes to information regarding arms. I blame circumstance over lousy information, as Lancaster had decent reviews prior to the RR fiasco. |
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This was the first bad advice that I have ever gotten from reading AR15.com posts, by the way. Normally, our members really know their shit and share knowledge with us all. I played with the bull and I got the horns this time though. Not another penny of my money ever again, Lancaster. Not one more penny.
I was in the same boat. Bad advice might be little to harsh, as the problems were not known until, well maybe I was the first one to have this happen (first post about it IMO here) From now on any and all firearms I purchase go through a ringer of research, much more so than before (which was a lot) and I still will refer to posts here on ARFCOM over most any other outlets when it comes to information regarding arms. I blame circumstance over lousy information, as Lancaster had decent reviews prior to the RR fiasco. Please don't misunderstand my post. We AR15.com folks were not the bad guys here. Lancaster was/is. It certainly can be that, prior to the RR fiasco, the company made good quality rifles and our board members were merely posting that fact in posts about Lancaster. I do agree with you about research. I will never be an "early buyer" for any rifle/firearm again. Looks like firearms work just like new car models. The brave people buy early and others hold back to see how things are going to go in terms of problems/recalls. |
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