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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question about Arsenal SGL quality (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/1/2012 11:44:45 PM EDT
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I want to purchase SGL 21-94 soon, but reading about how bad they are is not helping me. I understand every product have bad things, but by looking at the ratio, more bad than goods. So why is Arsenal still produce bad products. I understand cheap finish for "so called keeping low cost" but they are building AK's for a long time and still can't get it right? |
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Quoted:
I want to purchase SGL 21-94 soon, but reading about how bad they are is not helping me. I understand every product have bad things, but by looking at the ratio, more bad than goods. So why is Arsenal still produce bad products. I understand cheap finish for "so called keeping low cost" but they are building AK's for a long time and still can't get it right? I don't understand where you read they are bad OP? SGL21's are the closest thing you can get to an authentic Russian AK. |
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The finish is on the guns when they are imported. The only Arsenal rifles that have a US done finish are the SAM series, and it is a very tough finish.
The finish on their imported guns is fine in my experience. Just don't use overly aggressive cleaning solvents(that aren't even necessary). I've had two Arsenals. Regret selling both. Won't hesitate to buy another in the future. |
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Quoted:
I want to purchase SGL 21-94 soon, but reading about how bad they are is not helping me. I understand every product have bad things, but by looking at the ratio, more bad than goods. So why is Arsenal still produce bad products. I understand cheap finish for "so called keeping low cost" but they are building AK's for a long time and still can't get it right? Provide a link to the where you are reading "how bad they are." I have an SGL21-94,31-94 as well as 3 other SGL fixed folders. All my folders lockup perfect and I haven't had one failure of any kinds. My 21-94 does have a rougher cut on the front latch, my 31-61 has a canted sight (still can zero at 200 yards) and the finish on all of them leaves something to be desired. That being said they are the BEST out there. If you're looking for a boutique rifle, buy a fixed stock SGL-21 and send it to Chris Butler for a folder and his finish. Otherwise, buy a Noveske AR15. |
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I have an SGL-31 and a Bulgy SA-7 from Arsenal.
They are both fine AKs but they are not spectacularly better than a lot of other AKs out there. The cheap paint on my Bugly flakes off easily and is easily removed with many mild solvents but I will probably dura-coat it sometime in the future. They both run flawlessly but so does my Romanian SAR1 and SAR2. I think the biggest gripe people have with the Arsenal products is the "bang for the buck". They run fine but they are not inexpensive guns and there are plenty of cheaper AKs out there that will run just as well. ...but you will not be disappointed with an Arsenal SGL series gun. |
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I have owned:
SLR107F SGL20 SLR105 A1 I currently own: SGL21-94 x2 SGL31-94 SLR105 A1-R x2 Mechanically Arsenal rifles from Bulgaria or Izhmash are as good as it get's. Chrome lined cold hammer forged barrels made to military standards at their perspective factories. The Russian side folders are a dream come true, never thought I would own an AK74M or AK103 clone. People complain about crappy painted finish, it's a Kalashnikov and if it bothers you have it refinished. Front sight cant is not an issue if the rifle can zero. Never had any issues with magazine wobble, FTF, and FTE. Certain gun owners make me chuckle at the small and insignificant "issues" pertaing to Arsenal rifles. A WASR does the same thing as an Arsenal. A DPMS does the same thing as a Noveske. A Kia does the same thing as a BMW. I like quality in life so buy once, cry once. |
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The only factory made AK out there that's better built is the VEPR. The Arsenal SGL series is definitely one of the best made AK's on the market. I have several SGL's and all of them have been great rifles. Sometimes people watch that one YouTube video (MrAK47master) where the guy claims Arsenal AK's aren't "military spec" and as evidence shows what he claims is a melted hand guard. The video was a poorly done hit piece made by a guy with an axe to grind with Arsenal for some reason. His video is full of misinformation and inaccurate statements. The comments have been turned off on the video for a long time because people were pointing out all the factual errors in the video. Anyway, I wish I had a dollar for every email I've answered where someone has said they have been reading about all the problems with Arsenal AK's only to find out they're really talking about this single YouTube video they watched.  In short, if you want a good quality AK the SGL is one of your best options. |
SLR, SGL, and Vepr rifles are all great. Owned all three (still own SLR and SGL) and experience no problems whatsoever. You are concerned about finish? Seriously? It is an AK. They look better a bit worn anyway.  If necessary after years of ownership and rough handling, you can always pay a professional to refinish it for you.
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The finish is the ACTUAL finish used on Russian military service rifles. Says so in the manual and Ive talked extensively with their armorer.
Aside from getting around all the importation crap with the sporterization/"remanufacture" there is no difference, inside or out save the FCG and reciever markings, than a real Russian military kalashinikov. Zero. That being said, are there better finishes out there? Yes. But people want authentic, and authentic is what the SGL series is. That includes the paint. :) Honestly, I like it when it looks a little worn. Its a working rifle, one day it will look like its been drug behind truck for 20 miles. I dont mind, that just increases its appeal to me. I love both my SGL's. They run like tops and they are fine shooters. Ill never want or own another Kalashnikov pattern rifle (save maybe a Krebs, which they are good folk at Krebs BTW) http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/whatsinaname181/100_0902.jpg |
| I agree with just about everyone in this thread. My arsenal SGL 31-94 was the only AK i have ever ordered online because i knew i would get a rifle that didnt need to be inspected for issues. It has never had a single issue, and the finish is actually pretty nice. I was skeptical with the toughness of the finish after reading about what other people had said, but as long as you dont use brake cleaner type solvents you wont have a problem with it. They may cost a few more bucks than other AK's but the authenticity and quality of the rifle cant be beat. |
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Besides a few very very minor differences (no full-auto, no pistol grip reinforcement plate, and no chrome lined brake), when you buy an SGL rifle from Arsenal, you're basically getting the same exact weapon that is handed out to Russian combat troops. Take a look at AK-74M and AK-103 rifles "in the wild" and you'll notice immediately how beat to hell they are in the hands of Russian soldiers - the black factory finish is no different than what is on the real deal 74Ms and 103s utilized by Russian troops present day... It's not a limited edition safe queen - the more you use it, the more wear and character it will obtain - it's an AK - but it's the most authentic AK you can buy (without going custom). |
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The only thing I consider "bad" about the Arsenal's is the factory 2-stage trigger. It can be easily replaced though. There are numerous reports about the factory trigger failing to reset, and it has happened to me as well. It's actually a decent trigger that's 20 minutes of elbow grease away from being a great light two stage trigger. I've polished many of mine to a smooth 3-4 lb release. |
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The only thing I consider "bad" about the Arsenal's is the factory 2-stage trigger. It can be easily replaced though. There are numerous reports about the factory trigger failing to reset, and it has happened to me as well. It's actually a decent trigger that's 20 minutes of elbow grease away from being a great light two stage trigger. I've polished many of mine to a smooth 3-4 lb release. The trigger pull didn't bother me. I could live with that. My problem is that it randomly failed to reset. |
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I can't say I'm overly pleased with the performance of my SLR107F trigger - first day out I had to manually reset the thing every shot for the first 50 shots - ran out of time to put more through it to see if it totally cleared itself up at the end of the 2nd mag.
I did however spend 2 hrs polishing the trigger the other day, then working the action back and forth a few dozen times........should I have to do this on a $1000 rifle....probably no, as I shouldn't need to replace the trigger with aftermarket Tapco stuff. I don't even know if this helps cure the fail to reset issue...anyway, I'm looking forward to the next outing to see if the trigger is any better....hopefully that's the end of the concern. Other than that, I feel like I did well buying what I did. |
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The only thing I consider "bad" about the Arsenal's is the factory 2-stage trigger. It can be easily replaced though. There are numerous reports about the factory trigger failing to reset, and it has happened to me as well. It's actually a decent trigger that's 20 minutes of elbow grease away from being a great light two stage trigger. I've polished many of mine to a smooth 3-4 lb release. This. I just cleaned mine up with a flat jewelers file, followed by a polish with a dremmel tool. Couldn't be more pleased with it now. Breaks clean at about 3.5-4 #'s with almost zero creep (i expect it will smooth out more after a few hundred rounds go through it). Took 30-40 minutes and netted a near perfect trigger job. |
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Having had a SGL a few years ago and now a SLR,i agree that these are top notch grade rifles.I prefer the SLR series,but both are excellent choices.
Sure the finish is a little thin,but i dont care,wear is welcome as i use my rifles as they were intended to be used. Buy with confidence when looking at Arsenal's lineup. 
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The only thing I consider "bad" about the Arsenal's is the factory 2-stage trigger. It can be easily replaced though. There are numerous reports about the factory trigger failing to reset, and it has happened to me as well. It's actually a decent trigger that's 20 minutes of elbow grease away from being a great light two stage trigger. I've polished many of mine to a smooth 3-4 lb release. The trigger pull didn't bother me. I could live with that. My problem is that it randomly failed to reset. Mine wouldn't reset either. The trigger job took care of that. |
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Quoted: It's not a limited edition safe queen - the more you use it, the more wear and character it will obtain - it's an AK - but it's the most authentic AK you can buy (without going custom). But even going custom isn't getting any closer to the original than an SGL, IMHO. Sure, you can fake markings and add pieces that look correct but in the end they weren't installed by Izhmash. While you can make a rifle that looks more authentic, you can't get any more authentic than a SGL31-94. It's a Russian made semi-auto AK-74M built at Izhmash on the same line that produces the military rifles using the same basic components minus the compliance parts and semi-auto parts which you couldn't have anyway. The fact we can now buy real Russian made AK's is amazing to me. I never thought I would live to see the day we would be able to own a real Russian AK74 - something I've wanted since I was a kid in high school (back in the 1980's). That's why every time I get the urge to buy an AK, I go Russian. |
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It's not a limited edition safe queen - the more you use it, the more wear and character it will obtain - it's an AK - but it's the most authentic AK you can buy (without going custom). But even going custom isn't getting any closer to the original than an SGL, IMHO. Sure, you can fake markings and add pieces that look correct but in the end they weren't installed by Izhmash. While you can make a rifle that looks more authentic, you can't get any more authentic than a SGL31-94. It's a Russian made semi-auto AK-74M built at Izhmash on the same line that produces the military rifles using the same basic components minus the compliance parts and semi-auto parts which you couldn't have anyway. The fact we can now buy real Russian made AK's is amazing to me. I never thought I would live to see the day we would be able to own a real Russian AK74 - something I've wanted since I was a kid in high school (back in the 1980's). That's why every time I get the urge to buy an AK, I go Russian. Agree totally with this post. Once again.....the SGL-31 series rifles are the closest you and I will ever get to a REAL Russian AK-74. They are now 800 dollars plus BUT any serious collector/ak affecionado should try to get at least one. |
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Quoted: Quoted: It's not a limited edition safe queen - the more you use it, the more wear and character it will obtain - it's an AK - but it's the most authentic AK you can buy (without going custom). But even going custom isn't getting any closer to the original than an SGL, IMHO. Sure, you can fake markings and add pieces that look correct but in the end they weren't installed by Izhmash. While you can make a rifle that looks more authentic, you can't get any more authentic than a SGL31-94. It's a Russian made semi-auto AK-74M built at Izhmash on the same line that produces the military rifles using the same basic components minus the compliance parts and semi-auto parts which you couldn't have anyway. The fact we can now buy real Russian made AK's is amazing to me. I never thought I would live to see the day we would be able to own a real Russian AK74 - something I've wanted since I was a kid in high school (back in the 1980's). That's why every time I get the urge to buy an AK, I go Russian. Yes. My feelings exactly. |
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After a couple of thousand rounds I would say I am very happy with mine! Never jammed once using tula ammo.
http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a423/gforce2018/AK47webpic.jpg |
| I currently own 4 Arsenal rifles. 3 are SLR's, one is an SAM-7A1R. Arsenal rifles are top notch. I've owned several Century make AK's, and at this point I won't waste any more of my time with those types. Arsenal all the way. Sometimes you might need to polish a trigger, but that's because those parts are made in the US to comply with 922R. |
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Honestly, after hearing about them for years, and then finally holding a few......meh.....Over-rated.
My waffen werks AK is on a much better level of everything. minus the "OMFG its not Hammer-Forged 50,000,000rnd barrel life" barrel. It's still CL tho. I would much rather buy another WW than deal with issues from a $1K+ rifle. why buy "the BEST" if it really isn't? you pay $1k and get a crappy trigger????? no no no, it should COME with a RSA trigger IN it! tisk tisk. the WW runs like a top....i dont shoot it much as I feel bad using such a beautiful weapon. it's that nice. that and the amount of stamping "SAIGA, ARSENAL", etc names on the recvrs is sooo tacky! HUGE turn off! I dont care if it's "the closest you can come" it's so branded up its rediculous. My WW has very small electro pencil on the bottom of the recvr and the rest is clean and looks very authentic. My buddy said his finishes wear and flake off easily. mine is factory KG Gun koted. it looks amazingly smooth! but still nice and black. If I wanted a real side-folder I would rather do a custom build than buy an SGL at this point......and I drooled over SGL's for YEARS. please look into WW if you get a chance :) 
/rant (or my random opinions LOL) |
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The deal with the "no pistol grip reinforcement plate" thing keeps popping up in comments and reviews. Has this been a problem or is it more an imagined than real issue? It's not a problem mechanically but it's a problem aesthetically. SGL series rifles are pattern after the AK74M and AK103 and they have pistol grip reinforcement plates installed from the factory. The reason why side folders have reinforcement plates is to add support for the receiver during airborne operations when paratroopers would conduct their jumps with the stock folded. That's why you see a lot of VDV units in Afghanistan with AKS74's instead of AK74's. SGL rifles do come into the country as Saigas and Arsenal converts them to their current form. After all the hard work and effort to install the side folder trunion why not add the pistol grip plate which involves a small amount of spot welding. The Bulgarian SLR106 and 107 does come with the pistol grip plates though. No matter how you look at it, the rifle will always be a clone. The SGL21-94's don't have actual AK100 rear sight blocks and the AKM rear sight block are used in its place. You can go on all day with small details like not having dimpled gas blocks and front sight, wrong trigger guard, etc. I don't sweat the small stuff and enjoy the rifle. |
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Honestly, after hearing about them for years, and then finally holding a few......meh.....Over-rated. My waffen werks AK is on a much better level of everything. minus the "OMFG its not Hammer-Forged 50,000,000rnd barrel life" barrel. It's still CL tho. I would much rather buy another WW than deal with issues from a $1K+ rifle. why buy "the BEST" if it really isn't? you pay $1k and get a crappy trigger????? no no no, it should COME with a RSA trigger IN it! tisk tisk. the WW runs like a top....i dont shoot it much as I feel bad using such a beautiful weapon. it's that nice. that and the amount of stamping "SAIGA, ARSENAL", etc names on the recvrs is sooo tacky! HUGE turn off! I dont care if it's "the closest you can come" it's so branded up its rediculous. My WW has very small electro pencil on the bottom of the recvr and the rest is clean and looks very authentic. My buddy said his finishes wear and flake off easily. mine is factory KG Gun koted. it looks amazingly smooth! but still nice and black. If I wanted a real side-folder I would rather do a custom build than buy an SGL at this point......and I drooled over SGL's for YEARS. please look into WW if you get a chance :) http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7088/imagecopy3.jpg http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3190/imagecopy2.jpg /rant (or my random opinions LOL) well I suppose someone might consider them over rated if that person wasn't putting the rifle trough its paces and just wanted some pretty wall hanger/safe queen. I mean if your focus is to take high resolution pictures of your toys and post em on the internet I could see why someone wouldn't want an arsenal. Your WW looks....cute. but some of us use our rifles, here are a few pictures of mine: here a shot of my trigger guard area on the right side. the finish is wearing/wearing off. you'll notice the mag catch area finish is now a gloss black as is the underside of the receiver near the trigger. thats because this rifle gets shot and Ive worn the finish smooth in those spots from handing it. 
here is a shot of the mag well. I can't imagine any rifles finish holding up to hundreds of mag changes both live fire and dry practice: 
here is the charging handle: 
here is a shot of the trigger begging to show some wear: 
I have put 2500 rounds of yugo m67, 1000 rounds of brown bear HP, 500 rounds of monarch, and 300-400 rounds of wolf MC/wolfblackbox/and uly down range with plus many hours of dry training. i don't know if the barrel will last 50,000,000 rounds or not but I am working on finding out. |
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The only factory made AK out there that's better built is the VEPR. The Arsenal SGL series is definitely one of the best made AK's on the market. I have several SGL's and all of them have been great rifles. Sometimes people watch that one YouTube video (MrAK47master) where the guy claims Arsenal AK's aren't "military spec" and as evidence shows what he claims is a melted hand guard. The video was a poorly done hit piece made by a guy with an axe to grind with Arsenal for some reason. His video is full of misinformation and inaccurate statements. The comments have been turned off on the video for a long time because people were pointing out all the factual errors in the video. Anyway, I wish I had a dollar for every email I've answered where someone has said they have been reading about all the problems with Arsenal AK's only to find out they're really talking about this single YouTube video they watched.
In short, if you want a good quality AK the SGL is one of your best options. Did you also know that he was sued by Kvar for slander? He hasn't made any videos since he had a channel update notifying everyone that he was being sued. LOL |
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Quoted:
The only factory made AK out there that's better built is the VEPR. The Arsenal SGL series is definitely one of the best made AK's on the market. I have several SGL's and all of them have been great rifles. Sometimes people watch that one YouTube video (MrAK47master) where the guy claims Arsenal AK's aren't "military spec" and as evidence shows what he claims is a melted hand guard. The video was a poorly done hit piece made by a guy with an axe to grind with Arsenal for some reason. His video is full of misinformation and inaccurate statements. The comments have been turned off on the video for a long time because people were pointing out all the factual errors in the video. Anyway, I wish I had a dollar for every email I've answered where someone has said they have been reading about all the problems with Arsenal AK's only to find out they're really talking about this single YouTube video they watched.
In short, if you want a good quality AK the SGL is one of your best options. If you ever have the pleasure of putting a polytech through its paces you'd probably drop Arsenal down a notch but since new one's aren't available....i'd have to agree with this statement. MrAk47master is a tool. and I don't say that as an arsenal fanboi. i say that because I've watched that tool bags other videos. I think my favorite bit of douchery was him walking down the street with his yugo slung over his back. the cops stop him he gets mouthy with them etc.. complete moron. i predict a work place shooting in that guys future. |
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I love everything about my new SGL31-84 but one thing: the scope rail seems misaligned from the barrel. I am going to look into if this is intentional or not, but put my brother's zeroed, real deal POSP scope that aims point of iron's aim on his WASR on my SGL and the point of aim in the scope is about 10 feet higher than the POA of the irons at about 200-250 yards.
People will blame the WASR, but a glance at the rails tells the story. The SGL rail is closer to being parallel with the bottom of the receiver, which we all know is sloped up, whereas the WASR rail is parallel with the top of the receiver/barrel. I have no intention to put an optic on the gun, and everything else about it is wonderful, I am truly in love. I don't really feel like going through the process of sending this gun back, my choice, though I know Atlantic would make it right without a moment's hesitation if I asked. I will investigate further, if this is how they are supposed to be, please don't jump on me about it. It seems unlikely to me though. To the OP, I have never read anything negative about the SGL series of rifles, which is why I felt ok spending as much as I did on mine. This rail issue would probably piss someone off if they intended to put an optic on the gun. I have no doubt that Atlantic would take this gun back and swap me for a fresh one, but she shoots so well and the irons are all I wanted anyway, so I'm just gonna shoot the crap out of it and forget I ever tried to put a scope on it. The SGL is definitely my new favorite. |
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I have only one question. Would you be happy with a rifle you paid $1200 for that has a twisted receiver? This is stricky a Yes or No question... no. i wouldn't be happy with ANY rifle regardless of make or platform or price with a flaw like that. Well, my brand new SLR-107CR's receiver is twisted in the front. This is causing the front trunnion and rear sight block to be twisted to the right. It is also causing the bolt carrier to be scraping the inside of the rear sight block. I know that AK's were never meant to be perfect, but this is ridiculous. This is not my first Arsenal that has had problems like this. Also, this rifle has a lot more magazine wobble than most AK's that I have handled. I have now realy questioned myself why I spent soo much money on an AK like this. I am currently waiting on a reply from K-Var about what they are going to do about it. |
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^^^EXACTLY why i didn't RISK buying the "top teir" AK......it seems it isnt afterall. Im still scratching my head why they are up to $300 more than other ones.
WW :) sorry to hear that you guys withthe twists/triggers/etc out of spec. WHAT is te QA guy doing? eating bon bons? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question about Arsenal SGL quality (Page 1 of 2)
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