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Posted: 7/23/2010 8:29:27 PM EDT
Installed on a Mak-90. Around 350-400 rounds on the FCG. |
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Sent them a couple of emails with the pic, the first about 2 weeks ago and then again yesterday. No reply so far. This isn't going to end well for them if a replacement or refund is not given. "All parts are CNC machined from solid steel barstock, and the three piece group will qualify as 3 US parts per US Law. Lifetime warranty against defects or failures" http://www.redstararms.com/index.htm?488.htm&1 I have never seen any negative posts about RSA. I'm just hoping they are on vacation or something. Unfortunately I think this is the result of a design flaw that I think is obvious from this pic: 
The disconnector is very noticeably thinner than the original Chinese one. |
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The RSA were supposed to be the best, but now who knows? Supposed to be the best what ? The best U.S. made AK FCG. According to who? LOL One tries to find as much information as he can when deciding these things. Early on, and for a long while, there simply was not much of a choice, and the reports of the quality of other offerings was less than stellar. One could ask according to whom on just about everything. You try to go by people who have actual time with any particular product and give it a thumbs up. I know of no other way to save time and money. |
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The RSA were supposed to be the best, but now who knows? Supposed to be the best what ? The best U.S. made AK FCG. According to who? LOL One tries to find as much information as he can when deciding these things. Early on, and for a long while, there simply was not much of a choice, and the reports of the quality of other offerings was less than stellar. One could ask according to whom on just about everything. You try to go by people who have actual time with any particular product and give it a thumbs up. I know of no other way to save time and money. Are there shooters out there who train or compete in tactical style matches that give the RSA trigger a thumbs up? The tactical part of that previous statement is only important in that during training or competition weapons are often run hard, not like a Sunday shoot at the range where it may take farmer john an hour to get through a full mag. The G2 triggers have no adjustable parts, +1. The RSA trigger has set screws that can come loose making the firearm nothing more than a moderately functional club, -1. The G2 triggers out number the RSAs by many many times, yet there are very few people who report failures on them, +1 to G2. My personal opinion on the RSA triggers, based on experience, is that there is no way in hell I will have one in an AK I own, price, performance, reliability and failure/trouble probability all considered. |
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Are there shooters out there who train or compete in tactical style matches that give the RSA trigger a thumbs up? The tactical part of that previous statement is only important in that during training or competition weapons are often run hard, not like a Sunday shoot at the range where it may take farmer john an hour to get through a full mag. The G2 triggers have no adjustable parts, +1. The RSA trigger has set screws that can come loose making the firearm nothing more than a moderately functional club, -1. The G2 triggers out number the RSAs by many many times, yet there are very few people who report failures on them, +1 to G2. My personal opinion on the RSA triggers, based on experience, is that there is no way in hell I will have one in an AK I own, price, performance, reliability and failure/trouble probability all considered. Not going to dispute anything you wrote, but I will point out that the G2 did come out much later than the RSA FCG. I don't think the G2s were even on the market when I was looking for an American made FCG. The first thing I did when I got back from the range was do a AK gun forums search to see what was widely regarded as the best presently available U.S. made FCG for an AK, and by all accounts the G2 does seem to be regarded as the best. Which is exactly what I did before I purchased the RSA trigger years ago. |
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Are there shooters out there who train or compete in tactical style matches that give the RSA trigger a thumbs up? The tactical part of that previous statement is only important in that during training or competition weapons are often run hard, not like a Sunday shoot at the range where it may take farmer john an hour to get through a full mag. The G2 triggers have no adjustable parts, +1. The RSA trigger has set screws that can come loose making the firearm nothing more than a moderately functional club, -1. The G2 triggers out number the RSAs by many many times, yet there are very few people who report failures on them, +1 to G2. My personal opinion on the RSA triggers, based on experience, is that there is no way in hell I will have one in an AK I own, price, performance, reliability and failure/trouble probability all considered. Not going to dispute anything you wrote, but I will point out that the G2 did come out much later than the RSA FCG. I don't think the G2s were even on the market when I was looking for an American made FCG. The first thing I did when I got back from the range was do a AK gun forums search to see what was widely regarded as the best presently available U.S. made FCG for an AK, and by all accounts the G2 does seem to be regarded as the best. Which is exactly what I did before I purchased the RSA trigger years ago. I'll dispute what you wrote. That is total bullshit. The G2 has been on the market years before the RSA fire control group was even a thought in the minds of the maker and distributor Power Custom/Red Star Arms, probably sometime around 2003. Jerry Gordon made the first Gordon Tech G2 trigger groups more than 10 years ago and the rights to make and distribute them were obtained by Tapco some years ago. Jerry Gordon developed the G2 to install in the AK's he was building at the time, most likely around the year 2000. The only US fire control group previous to Gordon's G2 that I am aware of were the early FSE (First Son Entreprises) fire control groups and some of those were made with soft parts not properly hardened, Century and maybe Hesse fire control groups. All inferior to those Jerry Gordon made. I used to buy my G2 fire control groups direct from Jerry Gordon before he sold the rights to Tapco. That was when he posted on the old gunsnet forum before the AK side of this board was even known. |
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I'll dispute what you wrote. That is total bullshit. First off, you might want to get a hold of yourself and not be so sensitive. Just a suggestion, ignore it if you want. The G2 has been on the market years before the RSA fire control group was even a thought in the minds of the maker and distributor Power Custom/Red Star Arms, probably sometime around 2003. Actually, I think you're wrong about the date. One might even say what you wrote is "total bullshit". 
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I'll dispute what you wrote. That is total bullshit. First off, you might want to get a hold of yourself and not be so sensitive. Just a suggestion, ignore it if you want. The G2 has been on the market years before the RSA fire control group was even a thought in the minds of the maker and distributor Power Custom/Red Star Arms, probably sometime around 2003. Actually, I think you're wrong about the date. One might even say what you wrote is "total bullshit".
JG was one of the first people who assembled AK in the US. Perhaps you should do some research on Gordon Technologies. Or at least think BEFORE you post about things of which you have no knowledge. |
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JG was one of the first people who assembled AK in the US. No one ever stated otherwise. Perhaps you should read a post before commenting on it, or at least THINK about what you are actually writing before you do, and spare yourself the embarrassment of coming off like someone who hasn't the first clue as to what they even are talking about. Or don't, your call. 
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"Are there shooters out there who train or compete in tactical style matches that give the RSA trigger a thumbs up? The tactical part of that previous statement is only important in that during training or competition weapons are often run hard, not like a Sunday shoot at the range where it may take farmer john an hour to get through a full mag. "
I love the smell of Elitism in the morning......... 
Obviously no one disputes that the OEM parts (Euro or Asian ) are fully functional and reliable , but does anyone have something besides ONE broken RSA part or old memories to PROVE that ANY of the aftermarket FCGs are better or worse? 
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JG was one of the first people who assembled AK in the US. No one ever stated otherwise. Perhaps you should read a post before commenting on it, or at least THINK about what you are actually writing before you do, and spare yourself the embarrassment of coming off like someone who hasn't the first clue as to what they even are talking about. Or don't, your call.
Mr. Gordon developed his fcg as compliance parts for use in the rifles he was assembling. He had to do that because what was availble at the time did not meet his standards. He later marketed them to others. Of course, that would be obvious to you and I wouldn't have to point that out if you knew what you were posting about, or you did some simple research. But then, if either were the case you wouldn't have posted the comment to which I responded. |
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Mr. Gordon developed his fcg as compliance parts for use in the rifles he was assembling. He had to do that because what was availble at the time did not meet his standards. He later marketed them to others. Of course, that would be obvious to you and I wouldn't have to point that out if you knew what you were posting about, or you did some simple research. But then, if either were the case you wouldn't have posted the comment to which I responded. Much, if not most, of that I have known for a long time. But I am fairly certain your 2003 date is off, and not by a little as I had the RSA FCG installed by Marc Krebs (back when he did custom work) around 2000/2001 and at that point they had already been out at least a year or two. But please, go ahead and keep posting useless trivia and incorrect information if that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
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I wonder if the Tapco G-2 FCG parts that they sell today would meet Gerry Gordon's standards. Possibly Tapco took shortcuts to make these parts as cheap as possible, & skimped on the quality control. Think about all the other junk they make. Where does the name Crapco come from? Just because Tapco bought the rights to make the G-2 FCG's doesn't mean they will be made with the same loving care that Gerry used. GARY N4KVE
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JG was one of the first people who assembled AK in the US. No one ever stated otherwise. Perhaps you should read a post before commenting on it, or at least THINK about what you are actually writing before you do, and spare yourself the embarrassment of coming off like someone who hasn't the first clue as to what they even are talking about. Or don't, your call.
Mr. Gordon developed his fcg as compliance parts for use in the rifles he was assembling. He had to do that because what was availble at the time did not meet his standards. He later marketed them to others. |
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I wonder if the Tapco G-2 FCG parts that they sell today would meet Gerry Gordon's standards. Possibly Tapco took shortcuts to make these parts as cheap as possible, & skimped on the quality control. Think about all the other junk they make. Where does the name Crapco come from? Just because Tapco bought the rights to make the G-2 FCG's doesn't mean they will be made with the same loving care that Gerry used. GARY N4KVE
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JG was one of the first people who assembled AK in the US. No one ever stated otherwise. Perhaps you should read a post before commenting on it, or at least THINK about what you are actually writing before you do, and spare yourself the embarrassment of coming off like someone who hasn't the first clue as to what they even are talking about. Or don't, your call.
Mr. Gordon developed his fcg as compliance parts for use in the rifles he was assembling. He had to do that because what was availble at the time did not meet his standards. He later marketed them to others. That is a valid concern, though there exists no factual evidence to support it, therefor rendering it to the state of existing only in perception and should be treated as such. I have shot over 50k rounds from AKs most with G2s in them in the past few years, I have not had an FCG failure. I do not baby my guns, I am not anal retentive about cleaning, I am about performance and reliability however. A good warranty doesn't meen jack shit to me, a product that requires no use in any form of a warranty is what I am after. A warranty won't keep you in on the range, in the training, in the hunt, or in the fight. I am not bashing RSA triggers based on perception, I am being critical of them from experience. I am making a statement that they have no place in my AKs due to the elevated risks of failure, be it a mechanical failure or loosened fastener(s). To say that RSA triggers are supposed to be the best is pure hyperbole, a person could say that they are the best adjustable AK trigger, but the best AK trigger in general terms is not going to fly without some very valid arguments being presented, refer to other posts in this thread. "The best" is inclusive, taking in to account (almost)every aspect on a comparative basis between other available examples - the best quality, the best reliability, the best feel, the best function. "The best" is subjective in nature on many accounts becuase people have different expectations and needs that item(s) must meet or acheive. |
| Well in my statement of being the best, I was referring to the fact that they were milled parts, vs all the other US FCG being cast. When I used to assemble 440 Mopar engines, the forged [milled] cranks were in high demand, while the cast cranks were discarded. GARY N4KVE |
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Well in my statement of being the best, I was referring to the fact that they were milled parts, vs all the other US FCG being cast. When I used to assemble 440 Mopar engines, the forged [milled] cranks were in high demand, while the cast cranks were discarded. GARY N4KVE This is actually the first time I have ever heard or seen any failures with RSA 2 stage triggers. And I was just able to confirm that these have been around for at least 10 years now. |
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I'll dispute what you wrote. That is total bullshit. First off, you might want to get a hold of yourself and not be so sensitive. Just a suggestion, ignore it if you want. The G2 has been on the market years before the RSA fire control group was even a thought in the minds of the maker and distributor Power Custom/Red Star Arms, probably sometime around 2003. Actually, I think you're wrong about the date. One might even say what you wrote is "total bullshit".
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Mr. Gordon developed his fcg as compliance parts for use in the rifles he was assembling. He had to do that because what was availble at the time did not meet his standards. He later marketed them to others. Of course, that would be obvious to you and I wouldn't have to point that out if you knew what you were posting about, or you did some simple research. But then, if either were the case you wouldn't have posted the comment to which I responded. Much, if not most, of that I have known for a long time. But I am fairly certain your 2003 date is off, and not by a little as I had the RSA FCG installed by Marc Krebs (back when he did custom work) around 2000/2001 and at that point they had already been out at least a year or two. But please, go ahead and keep posting useless trivia and incorrect information if that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
Why don't you contact Randall Power over at Red Star Arms/Power Custom and ask him when he first started selling the Red Star Arms fire control group? It was added to their website in 2003, that info can be found on their site. It was released to members of this forum at around that time as a new product. Now go research Jerry Gordon and see when he was building the Gordon SLR-100H rifles which he installed G-Tech fire control groups in and find out when these rifles were built. After you actually know what you are talking about. Here is a screen shot from the RSA website. You'll notice when they added the fire control group to their product sales. 
Now considering Jerry Gordon was selling rifles he built with G2's installed years before that I think that is all the proof anyone needs that you don't know what you are talking about. Let us all know what Randall Power tells you after you contact him about when he started selling the RSA fire control group. We'll all be waiting for you answer. Here is a post from Ken Roberts at RSA where the new product was reviewed before its release in 2002 when they were developing it. Two years after the Gordon SLR-100Hs were on the market with Gordon Tech G2s installed. Looks like you were off by a few years. 
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Why don't you contact Randall Power over at Red Star Arms/Power Custom and ask him when he first started selling the Red Star Arms fire control group? I did just that and he stated that they are going on over 10 years now.
Post the email with the info of exactly when they released the fire control group for sale, not when the were doing development of the product. Jerry Gordon was selling his fire control groups in rifles and online in 2000 on the AK boards at the time. I posted above where Ken Roberts from RSA posted in 2002 about their new product. You stated RSA was selling fire control groups before the G2 was available. |
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"Could you tell me when, (what year) powercustom first came out with this fcg?"
" Yes, we made the first batch of triggers in the year 2000. So we are going on 10 years right now. Thanks, Randall Power" Perhaps the G2 was out at the same time, but I don't remember seeing much about them until a couple of years after I had the RSA. And so you are now saying that in fact one could not find the G2 at any online store until Tapco took them over? What year did that happen? |
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You see how I did a screen capture of the items above? Please post a screen capture of this purported email.
TH-X15, We started making RSA fire control groups at Power Custom back in 2000. We just never let anyone know about them as we wanted to keep it secret for just the special AK owners who we hand selected as those worthy enough to own one. Thanks. Randall Power |
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You see how I did a screen capture of the items above? Please post a screen capture of this purported email. Lol, no sport, I don't think so. I don't know how to do a screen capture that does not contain private information in the email that I don't want made public. If you doubt he sent it, email him the EXACT quote I attribute to him in the email he sent me yesterday. I'm sure he would, if nothing else, be amused by your wasting your time with childish nonsense. |
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You see how I did a screen capture of the items above? Please post a screen capture of this purported email. Lol, no sport, I don't think so. I don't know how to do a screen capture that does not contain private information in the email that I don't want made public. If you doubt he sent it, email him the EXACT quote I attribute to him in the email he sent me yesterday. I'm sure he would, if nothing else, be amused by your wasting your time with childish nonsense. Funny that for two weeks you have been trying to get a response from them and as of yesterday they hadn't replied to you in any way and now you have a supposed email from Randall Power stating that they were making the fire control groups for 10 years (though the earliest reference I can find of them from one of their employees is 2002). Either put up the proof of this email or I am calling it as I see it. Your computer skill must be as lacking as your supposed AK knowledge. MWsnap will do a screen capture...You can edit out personal info with Windows Picture and Fax viewer edit function and post the email on photobucket. That is, if you really received this email from Randall Power. Take a whole 5 minutes to capture it, blank out the personal info and post it. |
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Funny that for two weeks you have been trying to get a response from them and as of yesterday they hadn't replied to you in any way and now you have a supposed email from Randall Power stating that they were making the fire control groups for 10 years (though the earliest reference I can find of them from one of their employees is 2002). Either put up the proof of this email or I am calling it as I see it. Dry your eyes. Your link does not work with Macs Your computer skill must be as lacking as your supposed AK knowledge. Perhaps in certain backwaters that actually passes for wit. That is, if you really received this email from Randall Power. Take a whole 5 minutes to capture it, blank out the personal info and post it. And I would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids. Again, if it is really causing you that much anxiety, email him for yourself. |
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Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly was the point of this thread again? Slamming RSA fire control groups as over priced junk  Looks like Randall Power can't even remember when he started making them as he says "2000 or so". No post anywhere on the web about them until 2002 as a new product from Ken Roberts at RSA.
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Wonder why he used a yahoo email account when the email account on the Power Custom site is [email protected] or [email protected]?
[email protected]? |
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Wonder why he used a yahoo email account when the email account on the Power Custom site is [email protected] or [email protected]? [email protected]? Because its probably just a redirect to his yahoo account so he doesn't have more than one email account to keep track of. |
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Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly was the point of this thread again? Slamming RSA fire control groups as over priced junk Looks like Randall Power can't even remember when he started making them as he says "2000 or so". No post anywhere on the web about them until 2002 as a new product from Ken Roberts at RSA.
His memory is a good bit better than your ability to simply read what he wrote. He didn't write "2000 or so". He states "2000 so....10 years right now.
And as you can see he did in fact respond Saturday evening and say he would send me a new trigger at no cost. |
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