AK Sponsor
Posted: 9/14/2005 2:57:09 PM EDT
| I know that a full auto is againt the law. What I would like is to make my AK look a little more like the full autos. So here is my question, A) Is it legal to have the third hole in the receiver? B) Is there a template somewhere that shows where to drill this hole? What I would like to do is drill the hole and put a pin in it and hold the pin with an "e" clip. So any help would be great. Thanks. This is just an idea that I've been kicking around. |
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Those who believe that this is illegal, please clarify my thinking. What about having a fake pin makes a gun in violation? Isn't it having auto "PARTS" that's illegal? It may be a bad idea, but is it against the law? If so, what law? Enquiring minds want to know... |
I'd say nope. If you drill the auto-sear hole in an AR15 lower, you're manufacturing a machinegun. I'd say the same is true for an AK receiver. I'd just not do it. |
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It is illegal to drill the hole for the auto sear.. Even if you put a pin in it and weld it permanetly in place it is still illegal.. Just don't do it.. That being said, you can cut the head of the pin, and a small peice of the pin off, and solder them to the outside of the receiver to give the illusion of having a third pin.. Mike formerly of ORF has aproval from the ATF for this modification.. Maybee he could be talked into posting more info on this.. |
| The Reason ATF frowns upon having the 3rd hole in any AK receiver is that it makes your firearm "readily convertible" to a full auto weapon. You can and will go to federal prison for the this under the charge of constructive intent if you firearm should ever come under the eye of the alphabet boys. |
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It's constructive intent. But, it's your gun, and your ass, just do with it as you please. Really, why? If it don't do anything why even have it there? The aveage Joe wouldn't know a selector from a sear from a third pin. And the ones who would know what to look for would want to open it up or fire it. If it's all about pictures, do what Coltshorty said and just lay it on there for some pics. |
See thats why I asked before I did it. I did not know that. Anyway I was just an idea. I would like a little more info on the "cut pin method" That might be ok. So where is the correct place on the receiver for this. I don't want to weld the cut pin in the wrong place, because I know there are guys right here that can tell what year an AK is but the damn rivets!  (You guys always pick it right even in a crappy pic. I don't know how) Anyway I want it to look right. Thanks alot guys.
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Its the other way around. You can buy/own all the full auto parts you want, you just cant modify an AK receiver.
Why, to get attention? Hell you could paint a small silver circle in the right spot so it looks like a pin, but dont ever post a pic online or you'll get a knock on the door from a bunch of guys with guns. |
| All of this third hole stuff has got me thinking. Does it make any difference where the third hole is? If you were to , hypothetically of course, make a hole that was too far forward or rearward than where the actual 3rd hole should be, would that still be considered a FA? If the hole was in a location that even if you put the FA sear & stuff in, it would be too far away from the FCG to actually work, would that still be illegal? It wouldnt be "readily convertible" at all if it was way out of spec. Not that I want to do this by the way. I like my recievers just fine with 2 holes. |
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My vote would be to leave the idea of a third hole alone entirely. Why? Because if you look all badass-gofast in the wrong company, you may put yourself in for some undue stress. Yup, even the appearance of a third pin or a hole in the wrong spot might quickly gain you interviews with numerous members of our law enforcement community who I assure you are great fellows and fine gentlemen when they're not giving you a goings-over with the rubber hose because they sure don't know where that hole goes either. Leave that little bastard alone man. 
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Good on you for asking first, and taking the advice given you. Many folks ask questions, and then get mad when they don't hear what they want. No third hole! |
Honestly, I think this is a bad idea as well. While it might be perfectly legal, it might create enough confusion to cause more trouble then its worth. |
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Why would you want to? I know that "looking real" to some people is really important, but why would you want to expose yourself to the scrutiny of the BATFE for trying to make it look like something it isnt. It adds no value to the gun, or estethic quality. It could be the last thing that you ever do to a firearm. If you really want to do it, go for it, but you had better be ready for the chain of events that you put in to motion. If you get caught, oh well...enjoy it while it lasts!! Look for thr thread on the guy that recently purchased the Norinco gun with the third hole in it... KyARGuy |
+1000 |
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The premise of your original question is actually incorrect. You stated "I know full-auto is illegal". It is not. A registered, transferable full-auto AK is perfectly legal in many states. You can not only get the look, but the whole deal legally. If you're really that into it, you need the full-auto AK. You won't regret it. A full-auto mag dump cures many ills.
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| And it's still amazing how all the sheeple fall in-line. If a lot of your attitudes would reflect the disgust at not being able to legally build a full auto AK and wanting to do something about it instead of the outright fear of what the big bad 'ol government will do, we might just get some of these crap bans repealed. But instead we're more concerned about being "good little gun owners" and having that US made $40.00 hammer in there because if we don't, the BATFE will look down upon us because we're not following the law and ban more. But nevermind that now too because our number one source of AK's will be no more after January BECAUSE of the BATFE. So tell me, following the law keep getting us where again? Instead of the outrage and contempt at our rights eroding before our eyes, the outright display of fear keeps settling in once again even though we are law abiding citizens and do nothing to provoke these insane laws. When's enough going to be enough? |
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Okay, enough discussion about the third hole. If you want to drill it, get your Class II license and SOT first. As I said before, I want the McClure-Volkmer Act overturned just as much as the next guy....but you know which group will give you the most resistance ?? Most probably the group of individuals that currently own "Registered Transferable Machine Guns." Do you think someone who has invested $8,000 to $10,000 is going to stand by and watch his investment drop to $600 ??? I remember "select-fire" Colt AR-15s in Shotgun News for roughly $600 back in early 1986. $600 plus a $200 Tax Stamp and you had a legal select fire weapon........those days are long gone. I don't think we will ever see the NFA Registry open again for new machine guns. |
But what you don't factor in is that non-FA owners probably outnumber registered FA owners 20-1. Those numbers could make a big difference when it comes down to it. |
Point is my man up there wasn't volunteering to be a martyr for the cause.. Brother-man wants his gun to look good. Unless he does in fact want to spend the next few years of his life in federal hell, the advice above was well within the bounds of good taste. If you're interested in someone making the jump, YOU do it. |
| Man I'm not talking about building a full auto illegally. I'm talking about what it's going to take for all of us as a group to stop trying to please that BATFE once and for all and fight to get back out rights including full autos. And I'm sorry, but obeying insane parts counts and being fearfull sheeple isn't going to do it. The ban on barrels proves that and if we let it continue, you and I both know what the eventual outcome will be. The sooner we figure this out or gasp, even openly talk about it, the better off we'll be. |
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If you want to have the "look" of a full-auto AK, then research the ATF approval letter that Coltshorty references above and make it so. I know alot of people want to have their weapons look as authentic as possible....nothing wrong with that. But if you make it look too authentic, then expect the inexperienced undercover agent at the range to snatch your weapon from you, put you face down on the ground, and proceed to try and figure out how to make your semi automatic shoot full-auto. Guarantee you he/she won't succeed, but in frustration will probably say "well.......you tried to make a machine gun so I'm confiscating your weapon to send to the lab for testing...." I have a limited amount of free time in my daily schedule. When I go to the range I want to shoot and then scoot. I don't have time to answer questions from "The Man" about any weapon that I am shooting. Just as those who want the ban overturned and are willing to go to court, there are the others who want to protect their investment and are also willing to go to court..... I'm sure there are groups out there that are advocating for the overturn of the McClure-Volkmer Act....I believe 1934.COM is one of them............have not been to their website in quite some time. |
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Like I said before I did not know tht it was againt the law thats why I asked before I did drill the hole. Yes I would like to make my AK look like the real thing but it sounds like way too much trouble. And trust me on the fact I don't want to get my sh** packed by anyone so me and jail would not get along real well. Thanks for all the advice. Me and my ass both thank you
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I've seen Museum quality AK builds with a simulated third hole and selector cuts,it does look cool.You can make it "appear"as realistic as you dare without breaking the cardinal rule.I did the same thing with a Portuguese G3,the ATF declares any HK type of weapon,with the pivot hole,a MG.I had the builder,clip and pin the lower to make it look authentic.
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