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Posted: 5/7/2006 12:33:24 PM EDT
| How can you tell whethor your lower is a low shelf, or high shelf?, also I've seen pictures of the inside of M-16 lowers, and the shelf seamed quite a bit lower than even the pictures of low shelfs I've seen, exactly how much space is supposed to be there?.... |
I have both. They are PERFECT!! 
I don't know about all PWA's. I only deal in preban ones. I think LMTs are high shelf. |
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The only real reason to worry about 'low' versus 'high' shelf is if you plan on either getting a RDIAS, or have an SOT to make M-16's.... My RRA is a 'high' shelf, and the only problem I had was with a Bushy upper not fitting. A little time on a belt sander on the rear lug, and that problem was gone. |
It's really simple. Most of the lowers we talk about are all made by 3 different manufacturers... CMT, LMT and LAR. CMT - High self (CMT, Stag, RRA, Global Tactical (Denny's), Noveske, etc.) LMT - High self (LMT, Lauer, PWA, etc.) LAR - Low self (BM "L" series, DPMS, Grizzly, Ameetec) But it's get even easier then that. Do you have $10-12K to spend on a RDIAS? No? Then don't worry about it and get what ever lower you like. 
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PWA must have made my two lowers and about a dozen others(A1 and A2) I have handled differently. Thanks for clearing this up. 
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I am talking about currently or recently manufacturer lowers. You stated that all PWA lowers are low shelf which is flat out wrong. I personally have one that is 3-4 years old that has a high shelf. Apparently most (all?) of their preban lowers were low shelf but the ones made within the last 5-10 years are high shelf. |
I thought you were saying that no PWA lowers had a low shelf. BTW, there are no PWA lowers 3-4 years old or even 5-10 for that matter. PWA closed March 31, 1996. |
Not completely true. If I remember the story correctly. "PWA" was a company owned buy a couple of guys that parted ways back in the 90's. After the split one of them formed RRA they other formed LMT. There has always been a lot of discussion about what parts of PWA went to each company and I won't claim to know all of the particulars myself but what I do know is, LMT continued to make lowers stamped "PWA" on an intermittent basis through out the 90's and into the 2000's. The PWA lower I bought (around 2004?) was a recent production (in the 50K serial number range). It was bought from RB Precision who assured me it was a recently made (the serial number seems to indicate that as well) RB Precision is located close (geographically) to both RRA and LMT and I believe knows both companies (and their owners) fairly well. Feel free to drop Robert or Krista an e-mail if you don't believe me or want a more detailed\accurate time line of PWA\RRA\LMT. BTW - If anybody is looking for a mid 90's production (40K serial number range) PWA lower, There is a dealer over on the FAL files forum who has 10 brand new ones with LPK's installed for $165 each. |
I have seen the inside of an M-16 lower, every time I went to the range to qual, and every time I had to clean my weapon. Of course, with the sear installed, I didn't get a chance to take any measurements of the shelf hight. But like I said, you NEED a low shelf for a RDIAS. |
CMMG= low, made by LAR. |
The "shelf" is the area immediately behind the selector switch. A "high" shelf is only milled down to the top of the selector as it passes through the receiver. A "low" shelf is milled noticably lower than that, and will accept a DIAS (drop-in auto sear) without modification, unless a block is in place. I don't have a good pic of the shelf area itself, but here are a few other pics: "M16" lower (i.e., registered receiver using USGI-type auto sear). Note that the side walls are machined quite far back; no AR15 lower is machined like this.  Colt SP1-style lower (this example is a Bushmaster lower, which are all machined to SP1 internal specs). The "shelf" area is visible here, directly behind the selector switch as is passes through the receiver.   Colt rifles from the early 90s with the steel auto-sear block pinned in place.  Recent Colt with full unmilled "bridge" -Troy |
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to throw a monkey wrench into your argument. I personally own a pre ban (in the high 33K range) PWA lower that has a high shelf. It's definitely a pre ban as well... not only does the serial number fall within the known pre ban range, but I have a letter from the dealer who sold it as part of a complete weapon prior to Sept. 1994, and he is a well know & reputable member of the gun community. |
I was refering to A1 style lowers. |
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