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Posted: 12/18/2008 3:54:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Forest]
I'm thinking with all the .308 ARs out there should we have a FAQ that addresses them.
Please post what you know, I'll format this up into a content page, just like we're doing with the other FAQs. Thanks! Wikipedia Entry on 7.62x51 / 7.62 NATO Wikipedia Entry on .308 Winchester History of the AR-10 and AR-10 type .308 AR rifles Q: Don't all 'AR-10s' / .308 ARs use the same parts? A: NO! There are several different upper receiver styles, 3 different magazine formats used, and RRA even uses a different thread for their upper receivers (so you can't use standard barrel nuts or free float systems). For more infomation see: The AR15.com Armalite AR-10 FAQ as well as continue reading below. Q: What parts are different from company to company? A: Upper Receivers, Barrel nuts (Armalite, DPMS, and RRA use different thread pitches), magazines may be different, gas tubes can be different (Armalite's are longer than DPMS's). Q: What parts from an AR-15 can I use in a .308 rifle? A: (from the AR-10 FAQ) The AR-15 Bolt catch should work on KAC/DPMS type lowers, but not AR-10 type lowers. From DnPRK: Most AR trigger assemblies will fit an LR-308. The two triggers that require modification are 1) the Chip McCormick straight trigger which needs th end of the trigger clipped to clear the trigger guard and 2) the RRA trigger which might require the tip of the cocked hammer to be clipped to prevent it from dragging on the bottom of the bolt carrier. An AR-15 rifle buffer tube will fit an LR-308, but you need the 308 rifle buffer and spring. A CAR-15/M-4 collapsible stock buffer tube will fit an LR-308 but you need to use a Slash shortened buffer and 308 spring, or use Armalite's collapsible stock buffer, tube and spring for the AR-10 carbine. DPMS LR-308 Lower Receiver Assembly Do not trust the schematics in the DPMS dealer catalog! Mine (2009) had many errors that I only discovered by accident. Having just tonight completed assembling my LR-308 lower, I though you might find this useful - Carbine_Man. Essential LR-308 Lower Receiver Parts Many AR-15 lower parts are compatible with the LR-308, but the parts listed here are NOT AR-15 COMPATIBLE and must be included in your build. DPMS part numbers to the screw Other things to note:
Q: Are the AR10 and LR-308 Lower parts kits interchangable? A: (from shrikefan) YES, however, the fit will not be ideal and the pins may require some polishing down to size with emory cloth. The pivot pin and the takedown pin will be too short or too long depending on which kit is used with which lower. Not the IDEAL set-up but it will work in a pinch. The bolt stop may or may not work but it is not critical for the BANG function of the gun. Rifle Manufacturers Custom Rifle Builders Sources for Complete Uppers What lowers do these work on? Sources for Stripped Lowers Sources for Stripped Uppers Sources for Bolts Barrel Manufacturers Whose Uppers fit whose Lowers? A: Armalite uppers will fit on DPMS lowers, but they are non functional and you'll have a gap in the back where the Armalite upper has the 45 degree angle cut. DPMS uppers WILL NOT fit on a Armalite lower. Stock Options See Page 7 for Stock Options (thanks to Spart) FF Tube/Rail Options Other Specialty Parts Magazines There are primarily two magazines styles for the .308 rifles, the original Armalite-Fairchild magazines used in the original AR-10s, then picked up by the KAC SR-25 (henceforth called the SR-25 Type) and the Modern Armalite AR-10 type which is a modified M-14 magazine. It should be pointed out RRA (and formerly Bushmaster) make rifles that use FAL magazines, and CMMG has a lower which uses G3 magazines. Magazine Manufacturers Alternate Calibers for use with the .308/7.62x51 Lowers? |
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Come on guys, I need some help here.
do you have any other questions that should be covered? |
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"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
Armalite makes 15rders also
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Originally Posted By Forest:Alternate Calibers that can be loaded (with a barrel change)? Who makes them? .243 Winchester .260 Remington 6.5 Creedmoor 7mm-08 .300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum .338 Federal I have no experience with this company but: http://www.ar-10-rifles.com/index.php I am pretty sure GAP will do .260 Remington and .338 Federal without issues. You can get barrels in .243Win from ArmaLite (special runs) and DPMS vendors directly. 300 RSAUM can be had from ArmaLite directly, special runs. |
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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Discontinued 500 Phantom from Teppojutsu - Link
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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Thanks!
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"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
A few thoughts in no particular order:
DPMS also offers a 300 RSAUM as part of their regular offerings. Don't forget CMMG also offers a DPMS compatible lower using DPMS mags and a DPMS compatible lower (with minor mods) using G3 mags. POF 308 billet stripped lowers can be purchased from several dealors (CWS, Ranier Arms, DDs ranch come to mind). These use DPMS mags and require a small metal sleeve to work with DPMS uppers. JP rifles produce a side charging 308 (and 260 Rem) compatible with DPMS mags. Accuracy Systems will make a rifle for most any round you can stuff into an AR10 or DPMS308. Christian Hofmeister of Hofmeisters Custom Shop will make custom 308s, 260s etc. using either AR10 or DPMS receivers. AR10/308 free float handguards: Daniel Defense Lite Rail SWS JP makes one, not sure if it is sold separately C Products also makes 19 rd DPMS compatible mags. POF is apparently working on a 25 rd DPMS compatible mag. American Spirit Arms produces a side charging 308 I believe. Krieger also makes drop in barrels for both AR10 and (started recently) DPMS. Will do 308, 243, 260. Weren't doing 338 Fed when I ordered last month. Iron Ridge Guns is working on a line of billet 308 lowers (not sure of compatibility yet). Patriot Arms makes a DPMS based 308 Gun Creations builds a DPMS based rifles in 308, 243, 260, 300 RSAUM XRing Precison Rifles builds 308, 243, 7mm-08, and 300 RSAUM rifles based on DPMS or AR10 |
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Excellent!
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"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
LaRue makes ArmaLite pattern rails 9.0, 11.0 and 13.2...
LaRue is also coming out with their 7.62 OSR 308 AR, but LaRue/mfingar would be the source for info... LaRue offers AR-10 specific gas blocks. Noveske AR-10 rails are sourced from Superior Weapon Systems, but are configured differently. Badger Ordnance and PRi both makes ArmaLite AR-10 rails. PRi also offers their M84 Gas Buster charging handle/tac latches in AR-10 size. Clint (aka Slash aka [email protected]) can custom manufacturer buffers in many weights for DPMS, RRA, or ArmaLite guns. He can also make buffers that will allow you to convert to AR-15 receiver extensions for a wider selection of parts. Surefire, YHM, AAC, Gemtech, SAS, and many other suppressor manuf's make 5/8x24tpi mounts for their 7.62 suppressors. |
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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Awesome idea! I was just wondering the other day why there wasn't one.
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Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
LWRC has a 308 SABR that is being produced. Min Data on SABR http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8697/lwrc308boltos9.jpg I saw some posts about it - but I can't find their website to get info. Thanks for posting the link. |
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"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
Tacked for now!
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When there's lead in the air... there's hope in the heart.
<font size=3> www.458SOCOMforums.com www.68Forums.com </font id=s3> Quis custodiet ipsos custode Oh, how the ghost of you clings... |
SO what I'm gathering is Armalite is the creme de le creme for .308s
my questions are as follows Are there any .308 Rifle kits? Is assembly the same as the ar15? |
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This morning I woke up and decided I want a gas piston .308 in a AR type platform. This rife will be for hunting so I want a 20 or 24 inch barrel.
What are my options? |
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In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria. - Ben Franklin
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Originally Posted By Palm:
This morning I woke up and decided I want a gas piston .308 in a AR type platform. This rife will be for hunting so I want a 20 or 24 inch barrel. What are my options? Bump..thats why I want to build one |
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Originally Posted By Palm:
This morning I woke up and decided I want a gas piston .308 in a AR type platform. This rife will be for hunting so I want a 20 or 24 inch barrel. What are my options? Did you guy's READ the FAQ? Especially under 'Rifle Manufacturers'? |
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"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
Would the dpms .308 have large or small trigger and hammer pins? I'm thinking about upgrading the trigger group... I did some digging on the dpms web page and nada. Also did a search of arf.com of the last 30 days and same thing.
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I believe the trigger pins on all current model .308 AR's is the same @ 0.154".
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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yes, ar-15 trigger (.154 pins) will fit, but I have heard that the hammer and spring were needed to be upgraded to fire hard military type primers, I think this applies to mil surp ammo, but I do not Know first hand. Using commercial ammo the standard trigger should work
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Originally Posted By Delta4:...but I have heard that the hammer and spring were needed to be upgraded to fire hard military type primers...
No issue in my guns. I have had an issue with the older ArmaLite AR-10 carriers narrow hammer notch vs. AR-15 wider hammer. Never had issues with AR-15 interoperability. Source from which you heard this? |
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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A CAR-15/M-4 collapsible stock buffer tube will fit an LR-308 but you need to use a Slash shortened buffer and 308 spring, or use Armalite's collapsible stock buffer, tube and spring for the AR-10 carbine.
This is incorrect, the LR-308's come with a commercial buffer tube. The buffer is a standard carbine buffer cut down to 2.48" and one steel weight removed. The spring is 308 specific. The bolt catch and srew is also 308 specific. The only other 308 specific parts in the lower are the take down pins, everything else (including hammer and spring) are standard ar-15 parts. The upper does not share any ar-15 parts exept the gas block and tube. The Armalite Ar-10 uses a slightly longer gas tube, so if you use an Armalite barrel use the armalite tube. Armalite Ar-10's uses a standard carbine buffer with a slightly longer buffer tube, so if you put a milspec CTR stock on it the buffer tube will stick out a half inch(ouch). This is why you use Slash's buffer with a standard buffer tube on an Armalite. Slash's buffer is a drop in replacement for a LR-308 carbine. |
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Originally Posted By PhrozenChild:
A CAR-15/M-4 collapsible stock buffer tube will fit an LR-308 but you need to use a Slash shortened buffer and 308 spring, or use Armalite's collapsible stock buffer, tube and spring for the AR-10 carbine. This is incorrect, the LR-308's come with a commercial buffer tube. The buffer is a standard carbine buffer cut down to 2.48" and one steel weight removed. The spring is 308 specific. The bolt catch and srew is also 308 specific. The only other 308 specific parts in the lower are the take down pins, everything else (including hammer and spring) are standard ar-15 parts. The upper does not share any ar-15 parts exept the gas block and tube. The Armalite Ar-10 uses a slightly longer gas tube, so if you use an Armalite barrel use the armalite tube. Armalite Ar-10's uses a standard carbine buffer with a slightly longer buffer tube, so if you put a milspec CTR stock on it the buffer tube will stick out a half inch(ouch). This is why you use Slash's buffer with a standard buffer tube on an Armalite. Slash's buffer is a drop in replacement for a LR-308 carbine. It should also be noted that a "standard" Armalite AR10 spring needs to have some coils cut off to function with the AR15 carbine buffer tube and shory buffer. The earlier LR-308's used a standard AR15 bolt catch. I believe the forward assist is the same as the AR15 forward assist - on models that have them. The AR10 carbine uses a standard length AR15 carbine buffer - the AR10 standard carbine buffer is equal to an H3 AR15 carbine buffer in weight. The depth of a standard AR15 carbine buffer tube is approx 7". The depth af a standard AR10 carbine buffer tube is approx 7-3/4" The AR15 mag catch will work in the AR10. They are slightly different but the AR15 model will work in the AR10. The un-modified M14 magazines are also "supposed" to work in the AR10 without a notch for the mag catch. The mag is held into place by a tight sling. |
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO! |
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Originally Posted By shrikefan:It should also be noted that a "standard" Armalite AR10 spring needs to have some coils cut off to function with the AR15 carbine buffer tube and shory buffer.
I've never cut any of the 4 of mine. Maybe I didn't get the memo. Slash's buffer/spring chart suggests a modified AR10 spring for this application. Calculations back up the chart's suggestions. The factory DPMS shorty buffer is 2.500" OAL.. The Flange is .250 thick. Which leaves 2.250" for the spring to freely compress. The factory DPMS spring will stack 30 coils onto one another and the wire is .072 thick. The DPMS spring will be 2.16" when fully compressed which leaves .09" clearance. The factory Armalite spring will stack 34 coils onto one another and the wire is .072 thick. The Armalite spring will be 2.448" when fully compressed. The spring will be fully compressed before the buffer bottoms out on the buffer tube using a buffer that only has 2.250" for the spring to freely compress. This probably does not apply if the spring wire dimensions differ (from round .072") such as possibly in a flat wire spring. That is not to say that the gun won't function with the spring fully compressed onto itself before the buffer bottoms out. I can't imagine that it would be good for the life of the spring. I would also imagine that the inside of the buffer tube will start to show signs of premature wear as well. YMMV |
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO! |
Are the AR10 and LR-308 Lower parts kits interchangable?
YES* * The fit will not be ideal and the pins may require some polishing down to size with emory cloth. The pivot pin and the takedown pin will be too short or too long depending on which kit is used with which lower. Not the IDEAL set-up but it will work in a pinch. The bolt stop may or may not work but it is not critical for the BANG function of the gun. |
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO! |
AR10 gas tube over all lengths:
AR10 Carbine (midlength) 12-1/16" AR10 Rifle 15-9/16" |
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "WOO HOO! |
enidine makes buffers for 308 series rifles. and a short one for use with an ar15 carbine buffer tube. just thought i'd throw it out there.
eta: JP Also makes a light carrier that takes a dpms bolt and parts but works in ar10's as well. this setup is going in my ar10t! |
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Hi Guys:
I am having a little adventure with my installer regarding the RR LAR-8 and the Daniels Defense Rail . The LAR-8 is essentially an improved version of the Bushmaster BAR-10. I need to take off the barrel in order to install the rail. My questions are these: 1. Will as AR10 receiver JIG from Brownell's hold the the LAR-8 receiver? I'm not sure, but I think that the LAR-8 receiver may be a bit longer. 2. Will the standard AR15 barrel wrench take off the barrel? 3. If the standard AR15 barrel wrench will not work, will the AR10 barrel wrench take off the barrel on the LAR-8. Again I am looking to see if there may be compatability issues. Thank you! |
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in relation to partch interchangeability between 15's & 10's, is there a differece between the ambidextrous selictor assemblies of the 2?
in theory or actuality, can I simply use the "ambidextrous conversoin" marketed for an ar15 in my ar10 without any problems? |
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I didn't see it listed but I held (and didn't want to give it back) an LMT MRP-type .308 at the SHOT show.
It was like a slightly upsized MRP; I didn't realize exactly what was different when I was first handed the rifle. I love the MRP platform. I have my name in the hat for one of the .308's when they are generally available, which should be about now. |
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Originally Posted By minsane:
Hi Guys: I am having a little adventure with my installer regarding the RR LAR-8 and the Daniels Defense Rail . The LAR-8 is essentially an improved version of the Bushmaster BAR-10. I need to take off the barrel in order to install the rail. My questions are these: 1. Will as AR10 receiver JIG from Brownell's hold the the LAR-8 receiver? I'm not sure, but I think that the LAR-8 receiver may be a bit longer. i used it but trimmed it to fit 2. Will the standard AR15 barrel wrench take off the barrel? yes 3. If the standard AR15 barrel wrench will not work, will the AR10 barrel wrench take off the barrel on the LAR-8. Again I am looking to see if there may be compatability issues. not needed Thank you! troy industries 308 rail fits the RR LAR 8 with no problems. It uses the oringnal barral nut in th installation of the rail. |
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POF 308 lowers use a standard ar15 LPK. They come with the parts that are specific to the POF 308 lower EXCEPT the sleeves to adapt the .250 pins to the .272? holes in the DPMS uppers.
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I'm guessing that barrels are fully interchangeable?
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Rock River Arms states on their website that the Magpul PRS will not work on an LAR-8 due to interference with the cheek rest. I put a Magpul PRS on my LAR-8 and the interference between the charging handle and the cheek rest is only about 3/8". If you followed captrichardson's advice above, you can trim just a small amount off the cheek rest and use the stock on your LAR-8. Below are some pictures I took of the overlap between the charging handle at max extension and the cheek rest.
Also, just for kicks I decided to try and see if my LAR-8 upper would fit on my DPMS LR-308 lower - it's a no-go. With the front pivot pin lined up, the lug in the upper for the rear takedown pin hits the lower and will not allow it to close. |
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Originally Posted By Shadowhawk:
I'm guessing that barrels are fully interchangeable? A member posted a pic of what was said to be a BM/RRA 308 barrel and it did not have feed ramps as in 2 it had the whole bottom of the barrel extension removed and was like one big wide chute. |
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Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Originally Posted By Shadowhawk:
I'm guessing that barrels are fully interchangeable? A member posted a pic of what was said to be a BM/RRA 308 barrel and it did not have feed ramps as in 2 it had the whole bottom of the barrel extension removed and was like one big wide chute. I can confirm that there is one large feed ramp on my LAR-8 and not two individual ones. |
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KAC SR-25's also come in a 24' barrel
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are ar10 dpms and sr25 bolt carriers interchangeable? Are the bolts? are the free float tubes? Need to know what will work.
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Just to make clear (cause I'm workin' on somethin' here).
1) DPMS/Model 1 Sales/Armalite bolts and carriers all the same? 2) Armalite and DPMS barrels are same (interchangleable)? I ask because I like mid length Armalite barrel but will be putting down on CMMG lower (HK mag). Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By Forest:
Come on guys, I need some help here. do you have any other questions that should be covered? Armalite used to make an upper that would fit a Stoner SR25 lower. What were the changes, and can you make one fit now? What about the DPMS upper? Can the DPMS upper be fit to the Armalite lower with a little grinding on the radius at the back of the upper. Can it be fit to the Stoner SR25 the same way? Thanks |
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I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest but which .308 AR's have preformed right out of the box and which ones have needed work.
I would like a simple flattop I could scope & use out to about 400 yards. Mainly for Elk hunting and target practice. |
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When They Knock Down Your Front Door, How You Going To Come? With Your Hands On Your Head Or On The Trigger Of Your Gun?
Joe Strummer-The Clash |
Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest but which .308 AR's have preformed right out of the box and which ones have needed work. I would like a simple flattop I could scope & use out to about 400 yards. Mainly for Elk hunting and target practice. My RRA LAR-8 Varmint performed right out of the box. I slapped a scope on it, dialed it in, and even I could should <1 MOA @ 100 yds. I have yet to push out the distance... |
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LMT will be producing a .308 MRP, targeted for Jan 2010 availability. It will have user-changeable barrels, just like the 5.56 MRP.
Pics here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=395243#post395243 (link not hot because we're not supposed to link to there from here, or so I understand). |
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Scepticism is an exercise, not a life; it is a discipline fit to purify the mind of prejudice and render it all the more apt, when the time comes, to believe and to act wisely. -- George Santayana
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance. |
Ok guys, new to the forum and first post so be gentle. I've got a DPMS LAR 308 and would like to replace the bolt and bolt carrier. My initial investigation has led me to believe that I dont have too many options. JP didn't seem to fit. I've looked at some of the other manufacturers mentioned here and don't seem to find a fit.
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Dibs on your "old" BCG.
What is it that you do not like about it? Welcome |
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Haha; well I just might keep it for spares. I've had some extraction issues, and I'm just hoping to improve the reliability. I might be jumping the gun (pun intended) a bit. I might just need to run more rounds through it to see if reliabilty smooths out.
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Originally Posted By RAM1:
Haha; well I just might keep it for spares. I've had some extraction issues, and I'm just hoping to improve the reliability. I might be jumping the gun (pun intended) a bit. I might just need to run more rounds through it to see if reliabilty smooths out. Tearing the the rim off or not holding onto the rim? |
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Not holding onto the rim.
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