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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The TACPOINT is NOT worth $100 (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 10/2/2004 3:30:11 PM EDT
Now please... before ANOTHER thread gets carried away... I want to humbly ask that C4iGrant and anyone else who doesnt have anything constructive to add to the thread... why not just say nothing at all?  Ok.... the title is my opinion based on the fact I now OWN one. I also own and use an Aimpoint CompML2, so I have something to compare it to.... and have used several cheap red-dots previously. A slightly used Tacpoint came up in the EE for $60 shipped... so I figured "why not... surely its gotta be worth $60" so I took the plunge. I really wanted to know what all the hoopla is about. So I got it. As many have said... it looks just like an aimpoint.... with a few drawbacks. Well, I think it should be obvious you dont consider a $100 optic to be on par with quality and capability of a $350 Aimpoint... so anyone doing that deserves the ridicule they get. Not everyone did that in the past... and I think several people, including a vendor who cant seem to stay away from these threads, felt like that was what others were saying. I never saw that. I DONT want to be another person saying "Those tacpoints are crap, get yourself an Aimpoint boy, or go home!" I think budget red-dot optics have their place in recreational shooting, which is what 95% or more of us do. However.... I really dont find it to be worth the $100 price tag... given there are so many budget red-dot choices on the market the would perform as equals to this one. First, the body is soft aluminum... and is pretty light/weak. There is no rubberized coating or anything like that. The dial for the dot brightness is really mushy, turns the opposite direction of the aimpoint.... and doesnt have a "stop" and a "start" like the aimpoint... so you have to visibly check to make sure it is off when you want it that way. It feels cheap. I unscrewed the elevation and windage adjustment screws... and the adjuster knobs had firm "clicks" on adjusting (good) but the paint used on the letterings on the knob sirface was already coming off so bad you cant read them anymore (bad). The threads on the adjustment covers were also poorly done... they gall easily in the soft aluminum and arent easy to get back on without cross-threading(bad). They threw some o-rings on the base of the threaded adjustment posts... but you can tell the covers really dont seat well on them, they kinda push the O-ring out of the way... so this wont be water tight for sure... if submerged at all. The supplied mount does NOT co-witness with AR15 irons (some had asked that). The supplied mount is a two piece aluminum mount, and is about as cheap as it gets. I sure would not trust it to stay in one place. You need a weaver spacer to raise this thing up to where it could co-witness... but using the supplied mount it would not take much force to snap it off a spacer like that. Sure, you could get a good mount for the Tacpoint, but that would be a lot like polishing a turd. The flip-up dust covers that are supplied are also pretty shoddy. The front wont even pop up... I have to flip it up manually... and the plastic used is soft and weak... you can tell its just a matter of time before they break off. Even the cheap butler creek flips covers are much better. The dot is fine on mine. It looks the same as the aimpoint I have. The view thru the tube is identical, with a slight greenish effect thru both scopes. It has 5 bightness levels and then off. (the aimpoint has 9... goes a LOT lower) In very low light, the first level of the tacpoint would be too bright. I do not feel this scope is worth the $100 price tag they seem to be going for. I would put this scope on par with the BSA red dot style scopes.... like this: www.impactguns.com/store/bsa_bsrd30sb.html In fact... I would have to give the quality edge to the $39 optic listed above... because it has 11 brightness levels, and rubber coated armour. The only advantage I see to the Tacpoint is that it CAN be mounted in a solid Larue/ARMS mount... so that it can co-witness with irons, and be trusted not to get knocked around. If you really want an optic that can do that... so you can trust it fully.... then you probably should rethink your purchase plans.... and get the cheap BSA scope listed above, while you save up for a real quality optic. To summarize.... I think the Tacpoint is a cool little red-dot scope.... but for the money, it is in the wrong price class. I think at $40 to $50, it is a more attractive deal. Personally, I think there are $40 scopes that are every bit as good as the Tacpoint... so my biggest beef with it is NOT the quality.... its the price tag set on it... for what you get. I dont feel like I got screwed at all for my $60.... but if I had payed $100, I would be very dissapointed... because at over twice the price of other budget red-dot optics on the market... this one doesnt have anything compelling over those... other than it LOOKS like an aimpoint, and the ability to use the same mounts. Thats about all I can describe. I cant give info on a torture test... because I dont plan to use it. I will be putting it on my Dad's AR15, since he wont be shooting it much. His is just recreational bench shooting with me, and likes cheap dots since he cant really see good out of irons. Anyone using this on their sole or primary AR15... I can only say one thing.... which is true even if you spring for an Aimpoint...... get a decent BUIS Flame on! 
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Actually, the flaming needs to stop, otherwise people are going to start having their accounts suspended (or worse!) These forums are intended to help educate shooters; we should all strive to strengthen one another through knowledge, experience and ownership. There is no better way to validate this field of firearms than to encourage ownership for such rifles. However, you all need to remember that not everyone has the same needs as others. Not everyone can afford, a rifle with a Pony on the side, a $300-$1,000+ optic, a $100 scope mount, a $200-400 free-float system or a $200 rifle stock right from the start Just because they don't have a chrome-lined barrel or an Eotech doesn't mean they're inferior and don't belong here. I know very few shooters in this field who have started with one rifle, bought their list of accessories, installed it all and never modified anything again. I am sure there are numerous instances where folks have tried setups that some very experienced veterans have promoted here only to find it didn't work for them. I'm sure many of us who have been here a while will agree that their collections are constantly evolving, some weapons are range rifles while others are deemed defensive or precision rifles. The AR arena itself is a constantly evolving market, look at the vast number of new accessories that have hit the market in just the past few years! We also need to remember that others out there are JUST getting started. They may not be able to afford all the luxuries. But they still want to know what it's like to have various optics or accessories and because they can't swing the 'real deal' they have to try lesser alternatives. Don't chastise folks for having to make certain sacrifices, let them learn the benefits of such accessories and I'm sure on down the road their rifles will start to evolve too. I'd rather see them have money leftover to actually go shooting rather than have a peerrttyy rifle but no ammo to feed it. This post is also aimed at those of you out there who criticize others for the money they've spent on their projects... You don't know their proposed needs, it doesn't matter what they have, you need to focus on what YOU have! Read what you want, learn what you can and enjoy your rights to own & use what you have! Kevin AR15.com Staff |
Good job, and thanks for pointing out some of the little details that signify quality manufacturing (the power switch, adjustment covers, lens caps, etc); I've been driven away from buying scopes and such, just because of shortcomings in "little" things like these. |
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Excellent posting, with first hand, hands on experience, and good detail of what exactly he found. Should be quite useful in determining whether or not to risk a purchase of this type. Also the followup by a Site Staff Member is clear and to the point. BOTH postings are exactly what this subject and forum needs. Kudos to both of you.  Lonny |
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What is sad, is that people who don't know any better, will see this at a gun show or somewhere and think they are getting a product comparable to the aimpoint. Like you have said: These optics have there place in the shooters ladder of bad to best. Very good write up! Thank You. |
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Good info. I don't mind spending money on shooting stuff, but as so many have pointed out before, economy products have their place. Some people need to drive a Ford Ranger because they can't afford the F350 or have other priorities for spending their money on. I can't believe you didn't bring the Tacpoint to the class today. 
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I just got it in the mail waiting for me when I got home! But since I dont have a spacer, I couldnt have run it anyway.  I'd take it to gunstock.... but I really dont see the point. For average use, I'm sure it will do just fine for what it is intended. I'm gonna go try and find a spacer tomorrow morning.... so my Dad can use it tomorrow. If not, then maybe he will just put it on one of his .22's or something. |
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I have a Comp M, Comp ML2 and a Tacpoint. I argee with the review in just about every regard. I have a dedicated 22 rimfire M4gery with a 1:16, 22 rf, M4 barrel I got from Rich Keuhl. It is for plinking and fun, cheap shooting. I had a Comp M on it. Worked great but seemed like a little overkill so I put a Tacpoint on it mounted in an Aimpoint QRP mount. It seems to work fine for this purpose AND it looks like an Aimpoint on my 5.56 M4gery. The M422gery also sports an Airsoft KAC300m rip-off BUIS. My M4gery has the real thing. Moving from the 5.56 upper to the 22rf keeps the same basic feel and sight picture and allows for cheap practice with the same lower( grip, trigger, etc.). In short, I don't think the Tacpoint is worth $100 UNLESS you want to keep the look and relative sight picture of an Aimpoint on a weapon that doesn't really need an Aimpoint. Ed |
Good review. Aimpoint used to include the same cheap mount with the Comp M/ML series. They found that the Aimpoint will twist in this mount and stopped including it as NO ONE was using it. If someone wants a quality mount that will allow the tacpoint to co-witness should look at the Aimpoint QRP + spacer setup..... C4 |
This is what concerns me as well. They made it look EXACTLY like an Aimpoint to confuse uneducated buyers. I also think that we will see unethical dealers trying to push these off as Aimpoint and charging Aimpoint prices for them.... C4 |
I'm pretty sure the BSA reddot is designed for the 10/22 
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Very nice! I like the OD camo job.... C4 |
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Im pretty sure some of your complaints are personal and not necessarily poor quality. Not to mention you bought it used. Whos to say the person before you didn't mistreat it? (blah blah to all you "AP will last forever no matter what you do" people) I bet I could break and AP in about 1 minute. I have a TacPoint, spent all day yesterday beating the shit out of it at the range. It never failed, held zero perfectly, covers flipped as they should, DOT was what I needed when I needed it, zero'd to bullseye at 100 yards with no problems, held zero after that (as stated before), adjustment screw caps were easy on, easy off. (unless you have ham hands you wont have a problem). All I can say is im very happy with mine. Now granted, ive never owned an AP, I have used an Aimpoint on other peoples rifles but with my Tacpoint functioning the way it is, ill spend the extra $300 on ammo and beer. Im sure AP's are a better product, especially with the added pricetag but for now ill stick with my Tacpoint until my Agency buys me an AP. |
It is a pretty bold statement to say that Falarak's negative experience is based on "operator error!" Seeing how you do not own an Aimpoint, you don't have anything to compare your tacpoint to. Falarak has both optics and was able to do a side by side comparison. I also like your comment about "beating the shit out of it at the RANGE!" Does that mean you didn't you use a sand bag to shoot off of??? C4 |
Ah yes, the common couch 'operator' speaks again. I am not an 'operator' as many of you claim to be. I use my AR for real life. I clear buildings, houses and the like from time to time. I do not charge the hills of Afghanistan or the deserts of Iraq, ill leave that up to you 'hard core' types. My reference to the 'operator error' comments were his remark to the crappy alluminum optic. I have had no problems and do not forsee any problems in the future of my scope. I guess if I was a ham handed retard and felt the need to cross thread everything b/c I didn't posses the ability to screw on caps then yes I could agree that the scope is shit. Maybe I could call Hakko and ask them to use ACME threads instead of the standard ones. You are however correct in the fact I do not have an AP to compare to. Most of his bitches about the TP were not something to compare but his overall opinion of the scope. He apparently needs optics that a Gorilla can play with to withstand his monster brute force. Until I have reason or proof to believe my TP is a piece of shit other then some people saying it is such b/c it isn't made in America with American parts (neither is the AP) and does't cost $300 +, I will continue to defend it. If you bothered to read my final statement I said im sure the AP is a superior optic, not withstanding the fact is cost's 3X as much but I will continue to stick with my TP. I also find it funny how so many people seem to compare price tags as to the quality of the product. My 1992 $7,000 Toyota Tercel has held up better then several "super duper, high priced american cars". 124,000 miles and runs better then most American cars of lesser milage. Who'd of thunk it? Cheers |
And once again we have the condescending attitude from the toy-boys. Fuck this shit. |
But I love you Lumpy. I realize that us 'Toy boys' are inferior to you 'hard core operators' but we get what we need and can afford. If I made more money then I would probably get an AP but until then and until my scope dies, ill stick with TP. Thanks for you opinion though. I will store it under the 'to be used as toilet paper' file. Peace and chicken grease. |
All one has to do is look at the side and it says "TacPoint", its even etched. If someone buys it thinking its a AP then they are an idiot and should be slapped. |
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I was surprised to see my 511.A65 come in a 99% plain white box. I probably wouldn't buy anything that looked like an aimpoint at a gunshow if it were in a plain white box, but I'm sure someone could make the mistake... Aimpoints do come in colorful retail boxes for the most part, don't they? oh, I'm certain I got an authentic Eotech because there is no kanji or engrish in my instructions!!! |
Well, it was a nice thread. Some mindless child always has to come in with all ego and no tact.
So..... Kevin - what part of:
does this raving lunatic's responses not fall under? |
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I really dont think Thump "flamed" in his post....Alot of people man handle things and can break them.thats not a flame..as he mentiond..who to say the original user didnt x thread the caps...I havent had an issue with mine threading. And the TP switch....mine has good positive clicks to it...and you can rotate it either direction to turn it off or on. I cant see this as bad. So Fals experience isnt what mine is either with both of those points..still no flame. The flame started with Grant and the sand bag comment....then the rebuttle...well...couch operator is a common theme around here...it may be flame...but Thump isnt a hard core Spec Ops soldier....so I believe thats what he means by hardcore operator..he's LEO and uses the TP on duty..and it is my understanding he has for awhile now. Then came Lumpy with the "Toy-Boy" quip...well, there you go....same ol thing from the OTHER threads, this is what needs to stop. So...Thump is not a raving lunatic...I think he may be tired of everyone telling him the red dot on his rifle he's been using with absolutely no issues isnt worth a slice of bread. I am glad to see someone finally post that not everyone can afford the finset in AR stuff off the get go..heck....some of you made me feel like shit for buying and A2 Bushy instead of an A3. I thank Kevin for his post. I also thank Fal for his...but thats not an end all review as it looks like most are taking it as. That is not the same results that all others are having. Maybe those who are so fortunate to have multiple rifles with all the goodies could make a fund for us less fortunates that have bought TP's..you could buy me and Thump amd AP and send it to us. Then we'd be on your side... Where is the love ya'll...?
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I didnt see anyone say the TP wasnt worth a slice of bread. What I did see was someone defending the TP imply any issues was operator error, and that he beat the crap or whatever out of it without any issues. No stories or data to ellaborate or validate the claim though. I do wish C4 hadnt followed him over what I precieved to be the line with the sandbag comment. With as much crap thats gone on here, I would have hoped people more familiar with whats been happening in here would have responded with a little more restraint. Its very frustrating to see this continue on as it has been and Lumpy, im my opinion, expressed that in his post. Like I said, things in here are going to be tight and folks are watching. The very first response to this thread was the only warning people are going to get. Im asking any of you who respond here or keep this up to carefuly consider what Kevin posted. Its quite likely that you wont have the opportunity to post again if you dont. |
My family owns a production CNC machine shop. I know good threads and bad threads. Quality metals and soft. I simply gave my objective observations, nothing else. I know when something has been previously crosthreaded. This had not. Its just poor quality base metal, with poor quality threads. Visual inspection confirms that. It's not the end of the world.... its just the facts. No big deal.... I didnt expect a lot. But all I did was state the facts.
So does mine. However, it is "mushy" compared to an Aimpoint.... or other quality rheostat. Do you have one to compare it to? You'd see what I mean.
Here is my reason for describing this, and why it is bad: 1. If you are used to the Aimpoint, and wanted a tac-point for a lesser rifle and to keep training, etc.... one thing you train on is you weapon deployment. This includes turning on/off your optic. The Aimpoint can be spun into full-on, full-off without looking... because it has positive stops. This is a plus. The Tacpoint cannot. Since this will provide a training difference from the Aimpoint, I felt it worth mentioning. 2. Since the tacpoint cannot be spun to full off without looking, and the rheostat is mushy, you must take care to get it in the off-position when you are done using it. Since this is a distinct difference than the Aimpoint, I felt it was worth mentioning. Again, I wasnt drawing any conclusions from this.... just stating the observations..... which were factual. Whether thats a good thing or a bad thing is up to the reader, and their experience/expecations. You dont have to take my word for it.
None taken. However, it was noted simply to demonstrate a specific difference in quality between the Aimpoint and the Tacpoint, which is undeniable in these listed and articulated areas, when compared side by side. And, this is A-OK. It is absolutely expected! Of course there will be some shortcomings.... it is 1/3rd the price! They have to take some shortcuts... and the post is simply pointing out technically, what those shortcuts are, from an initial inspection. I wasnt even getting into electronics.... or field failure rates, because I dont have that data/capability.
Nope, it started with him stating I was wrong and had "ham hands" or some shit like that.
It was. He offering nothing constructive to the thread. Just pissing and moaning cause he likes his Tacpoint. Fantastic. Great. I am glad to hear it. Really.
What does that have to do with the product evaluation of an optic? Where did anyone say this was for Operators only, or not??? I was simply stating what I feel from my personal experience with multiple optics, the initial observations of the quality of the Tacpoint. I didnt attack it in any way.... or direct who should/should not be using it. Simply observations, and then my personal belief on the monetary value of said optic.... based on others I had used previously.
Pot-kettle-black.
Nobody told him shit in this thread until he piped in with his rhetoric..... and now you are making up what was said. Nobody devalued the optic to a slice of bread. You wanna bring facts in to rebut the evaluation? BE MY GUEST. But until I see some.... I still think its worth about $40-$60.
Hmmmm.... from my original post:
So, I think I was DEFENDING the use of budget optics for this very reason. I was very excited to get and use the Tacpoint. Then, I was a little disappointed with what I saw....
Uhhh, not in this thread so that aint applicable.
I totally agree. Nothing is an end all review. But if someone wants to counter it with facts.... then lets hear it. Then, others can read both sides and decide for themselves. I'd love to see someone explain in detail why this optic is higher quality or outperforms other $40 red-dot optics out there. Havent seen that yet. Just the "I bought this Tacpoint, and dammit, mine does just fine, so it IS worth $100." 
I didnt post any results. Just observations.... based on fact and experience.
It's not about that. It's not about expensive gear or cheap gear. It's not about "my shit is better than your shit" It's simply a product eval on an optic that seems to be very popular right now. Thats it. Take it or leave it. As I have said and apparently have to repeat.... I sure the Tacpoint will serve someone just fine in the intended role. I just dont see any tactical advantages over LESS EXPENSIVE OPTICS..... with the two noted exceptions. I am actually trying to HELP those with smaller budgets... not spend more money than necessary. Now, if someone has both the Tacpoint and a $40 BSA style optic... and can give scientific information about why the Tacpoint is superior.... them lets hear it, for the good of everyone! Until then, I will stand on my observations, experience, and statements.
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I heard that some BSA sights have had durability issues...mainly due to recoil. I am pretty sure that the tacpoint has it beat in that area- from what I have read, when used in a quality mount, it seems as if it can hold up to AR-recoil, and probably then some. I wouldnt trust a BSA to hold zero or withstand recoil, but it APPEARS that the tacpoint is more up to that task. We will find that out for sure in a little bit though. I have one mounted on an FAL, and I am interested to see what happens. If it does infact hold zero, I think that alone would justify the added cost over a BSA type site. I may be way off base on the BSA's, but I have heard of instances of people ruining them, even on AR's. Scott |
I sure cannot refute this.... I almost expect it.... from a $29-$59 optic (depending on model/tube size) My experience with BSA's is only with two optics. One I owned, and one a friend owned. For both of us, we never had recoil issues or hold-zero issues with the BSA. I had a 30mm and he had a 50mm model. I dont doubt they break.... and break often..... they are cheap too! I dont think there has been enought time and data collected on the Tacpoints to determine reliability data. Someone would really need to have a large sample, and put them through a rigorous torture test in an identical environment to make those claims... I would think. I look forward to hearing how it does on the FAL. As long as the electronics are decently shock insulated and dont have any major design flaws, I am sure it will do fine. |
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FALARAK, great write up - thx. Speaking from an operational user standpoint, you cannot always control the amount of abuse your weapon will take - so I for one would recommend getting (either issue or private purchse the best kit you can get). Since I use a ACOG and EOTECH (flame away  ) at work - I see no need to buy a Aimpoint copy for a .22 trg gun - but I can see the logic of that if you are in that boat. (I also don't like using .22LR for trg on a 5.56mm platfrom but hey thats just me).Thumpernator - I really wish you would consider your choice, not just for you but your partner/team sakes as well. Keep in mind just cause it is issue to some does not make it good (VLI Insight light from SOPMOD I). I have seen local LE with BSA reddots on their AR's - simply cause they did not know any better. Come to think of it one of our Capt's had a BSA on his C8 (for a short time )...-Kevin What is your life worth ? Mine was worth a private purchase TA31... |
+1. -Cap'n |
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See, now thats what i wanted to hear, like in the 1st post. I already had an idea that i didnt want to spend 100 dollars on a Tacpoint, i just needed a confirmationthat it was garbage. I am not a liberal, thems fightin words. Just because someone only has 3, er now 4 posts, doesnt mean they havent been reading on this forum for long enough to know who the true hink Seeya. MC |
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And what is somebody like me supposed to do, after spending a whole load of money on a new AR and ammo and stuff? I want something that will work good and look good, but gosh, $400 and then even more for a mount, is getting close to what I paid for the whole gun. Wouldn't a Tacpoint work for until I can save up more money next year? |
I believe my fellow Virginian was making inaccurate comments about Falarak's review and didn't provide any amplifying data as to what "abuse" his tacpoint was getting at "the range." When someone makes ignorant remarks I will ALWAYS comment on them... C4 |
You are probably better off shooting with your irons till you can find a used ML2 for aournd the $300 mark or better yet (my suggestion) get an EOTech 502. They run under $250 and you don't have to buy a mount. Or you can buy a new Aimpoint CompC for well under $300. C4 www.gandrtactical.com |
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What I actualy find interesting is in all the past months of Tacpoint bashing, and so called testing, only ONE Tacpoint ( the one that was submerged in water ) has come up bad, or at least that is all that has been posted here. I would think if this optic was truly JUNK that more would have had issue with it over the period of time that it has been around. I dont think anyone has claimed that the Tacpoint is equal or better to the Aimpoint for it is not, BUT it is better then the BSA line of red dots. Its easyer to co-witness, easyer to use and more compact. The control knob is mushy, for a 100.00 optic you cant expect much more. The dot and glass are as clear as the aimpoint, quite possibly the same glass is used. This coming from a post stateing that Hakko DID make glass for Aimpoints at one point. The Tacpoint fits all the same mounts as the Aimpoint and for that i give it a +1. The battery life is no where near the Aimpoint but is good enough for most people who choose to use a inexpensive optic. I own a Tapoint, I was the first person on this board to own the optic. I was the first person to voice my opinion on the optic and others followed suit. I have had no issues with it and for those trying to discredit it, shame on you. An aimpoint could break just as easily as a Tacpoint depending on how much you abuse it. I have stayed away from these threads generaly because its pointless to argue over cosmetic issues associated with the Tacpoint. Some will like it, others wont, and some just want to bitch cause they have nothig better to do. Give the Tacpoint issue a rest. Let people chose and learn on there own. If it breaks there not out 400.00 for an optic. If they like it and want a better version, they will buy an Aimpoint and pawn the Tacpoint off on a 10/22 plinker. I myself own one becaue at the time i could not justify spending 400.00 on an optic. Now all i lack is a high end optic for my rifle and at the right time I will buy an Aimpoint and stick the Tacpoint on my SKS or BB gun. Untill then it does what it was desined to do. It puts a dot on a target and does so very well. |
Absolutely! Wonderfully in fact! Especially if you *plan* to buy an aimpoint, and/or already have a quality aimpoint mount. However, if you are saving up for the mount and aimpoint.... personally, I would go with a less expensive "cheapie" dot sight until you save the money. |
Just to clarify... NOONE is saying the sight is garbage. Just that it is (in my opinion) not worth the cost delta over less expensive budget class dot optics. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The TACPOINT is NOT worth $100 (Page 1 of 3)
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