User Panel
Woops, I meant to say in regards to the small peep sight vs the large peep sight that the small peep is centered slightly LOWER on the bore vs the large peep due to the longer ranges.
I like the large peep sight. The small peep sight is too blurry for me. The larger sight allows for a cleaner sight picture, IMO (focusing on the front sight, of course). To each his own, I suppose, eh? My rifle is mine, there are many like it but this one is mine. |
|
Thanks for the target. I always preferred a 100 yd zero, so that target will come in handy next time out to the range.
|
|
With my nose to the CH, the 0-2 large aperture is HUGE. If the small aperture is too fuzzy for you, open your eye a little more. It should appear as an unfocused circle as you focus on the front post. |
|
|
It depends on the individual. I, for instance, hardly ever use the small aperture except for sighting in. Given that most anything I will need to shoot will be up close and personal, I prefer the large aperture for most work. If I am on a KDR or shooting prone at a distance over 75 yards, then I will use the smaller aperture because it is a bit more precise. There is a small theoretical difference in the sights effect on POI. I say theoretical because the difference is usually within the margin of error that comes with the shooter holding the weapon. |
|
|
I know Paul Howe of Combat Shooting and Tactics/Triple Canopy is big on the 100 yard zero. Based upon the above data though, I'd be more inclined to have the 50 yard zero, but confirm at 100. I like the idea of the trajectory of my bullet being within 2" of point of aim out to 300 yards and within 4" for 400 yards. |
||
|
The 0-2 large aperture is on a different elevation plane than the small aperture. Traditionally, you would raise the elevation a few clicks (2 or 4) when switching to the large aperture (also documented in the IBZ). As john_wayne said, the large aperture is what you would typically use for CQB and the small aperture is for sighting in/long-range shots.
|
|
Cool bro, I shoot American Eagle 55gr FMJ (because I get it cheap at work). I don't know who's bullet Federal uses in these but I should find out so I can get an even better zero and ballistic chart. |
|
|
I’m just regurgitating info here that I was told by a highly respected trainer…
regarding the usefulness of a 100 yard zero Edit: I’ve since been told by a in-the-know source that the Rangers are using a 50/200yd zero. |
|
From the ammo oracle:
|
||
|
An internet search derived a number of other stated BCs for M193 from a variety of sources. Your mileage may vary.
Q3131, which is supposed to be M193, supposedly has a BC of .267. There is a formula for determining BC. Its too much for me to deal with math-wise! |
|
The Pointblank free software uses bullet weight, muzzle velocity, and 100yd velocity to calculate the BC but I think the whole point of a battlesight is to get it within minute of man out to 300m w/o worrying too much. Military surplus ammo or most commercial non-match ammo isnt going to be consistent enough anyhow. |
|
|
Truth. I am happy to hit center of mass on an "E" type shilloutte beyone 100 meters, using the Mark 1 eyeball and an EOTech. |
|
|
Same here. |
||
|
I basically split the santose and 100 yard method and zero at 200. It's just too much fun hitting the gong at my range at 200. It gives a pretty godd trajectory IMO.
|
|
|
That's what Santose recommends; zeroing out at 200yd (if possible) to double check. The ranges in my area max out at 200 yd and you can shoot at 200 WITH speshul permission. |
|
|
just used this and it worked great - thanks for spreading the wealth!
@ 25 white center as it should deadballs @ 50 deadballs @ 100 (well for my groups anyway it was deadballs) M193 with aimpoint compM too bad it doesn't have a white box for 200 and 300 |
|
The Santose IBZ method has it's crossover point at 50 yds/200 meters, which would be 220 yards. |
||
|
Question:
If my EOTech and larger rear peep sight are both zeroed at 50 meters, about where would the smaller (long distance) peep sight be zeroed to? |
|
The M193 trajectory, when zero'd at 50 yd using the AR-15, will crossover at approximately 220 yd. Just as an unrelated comparison, SS195 (JHP) 5.7x28 when zero'd at 50yd using the PS90, will crossover at approximately 200 yd, but still be within 3 inches of POA at 220yd/200m. The 7.62x39 ballistics show that a 50 yd zero with an AK carbine will result in a crossover at 100 yd. I suppose that is why the AK leaf sights have marked elevation adjustments to compensate for shots out to 300m-800m. In other words, the 50 yd battlesight method seems to work well with a variety of other weapons and calibers. |
|||
|
I shoot a 16" ar with Arms #40 flip up sight. I was under the impression that you used the large aperture on close range and small on long range because of diffrence zero (Like on my Hk91). Is the Zero the same on both apertures? And you use use the large aperture for a faster sight picture? |
|
|
When zeroing your rifle, you want to use the small aperture, regardless of what distance you are using for sighting in. The large aperture does indeed exist for faster sight pictures at closer ranges. |
||
|
The zero is not the same for both apertures. Zero out your rifle with the small aperture. Switch to the large aperture and click your rear sight UP by 2 clicks. |
||
|
"Elevation is adjusted by the front sight, and the front sight ONLY on the AR-15/M16 rifle"
This is an odd statement. Elevation for range is of course adjusted with the elevation wheel of the A2 rear sight. Perhaps he should have added 'FOR SIGHTING IN'. I'm sure everyone realizes that once the weapon is sighted in using the ballistic trajectory of your choice (100, 200 or 300 zero), the front sight is not moved until there is a change of ammunition or other reason requiring a re-zero. I've decided to stay with Santose's IBZ which seems to match my 16" carbine and my dim old eyes about as well as could be expected. This of course requires re-setting the rear sight to 2 clicks below 300. If the 100 yd zero using the 25 yd target provided does not require re-setting the rear sight, that would in my mind be a distinct advantage. |
|
In context....
|
||
|
I have mine set for the 25yard zero, but will give this a try just to do something different. thanks for the info.
|
|
OK, I was a little leary on a differnt zero than the 100 yd. Well I came across this thread. I looked into the Santos 50/200 m zero. Well, I went to the range with my new Oly today. I sighted it in at 50 yds. Then I went out to 100 yds. It was 1.5 inches high. I was so pleased with the zero that I put my coly H-bar to the same 50 yd zero.
It will make hunting so much easier. I will not have to think about the hold over for targets untill I get to the 300 yd mark. I did do some more research on the Santos zero. It is NOT as effective for other rifles like bolt action styles. On the AR-15 the optics are mounted higher than the bolt action style and the Santos would not be as effective. |
|
Thanks for the link. I will give this a try next weekend. I am going to shoot it with a known rifle/zero set up and I also have two ARs that need zeroing.
Thanks. |
|
Wait a minute!
Have people forgotten how to use iron sights correctly? The proper holding point (asuming that the target represents a human sillouette) is about at the top of the white box. The maximum ordinate should be just below the neck or about 16 inches. Unless you are sighting for head shots---where you need to know both range and trajectory both mathmatically and intuitively, the "6-o'clock" hold gives the best point-blank-range. What happened to aim at the belt buckle concept of battle sights? Hold-over should never be necessary. If you need to hold over, the target is really out of range. Dave |
|
For hunting with iron sights, determine what your target size is (often 10 inches for deer, 6-8 inches for coyote) and then find in trajectory tables the maximum ordinate which equals the target size. The maximum ordinate ocurrs about 2/3 the sight in distance: wher the bullet meets the top of the blade. Then use a 6-o'clock hold on the killzone. The range will surprise you. If you think you need to hold over, then you really need to get closer. Dave |
|
|
I guess that I should mention that I used a scope on my Oly. I do not have iron sights on my k16, just the 3-12 Redfield scope . The ballistics still work form the Santos charts. That is why I mentioned the Hold over after 300 yds.
Honestly, I probably will will not be shooting over 200 yds. |
|
Here is the ballistics that I have come up with. It is an edited Santos style for the .223 calliber in yards.....Black hills 60 grain Nosler Partition at 3100fps out of a 16 inch barrel. (The 20 inch was almost identical.)
50 yds...........zero 100 yds .........+1.5 in 150 yds...........+1.75 in 200 yds...........+.7 in 215 yds............zero 250 yds............-2.0 in Just remember that the .223 has a lower fps than the 5.56 rounds. Bassically I find that it is useless to shoot the .223 beyound the 250 yd range. There is just too much bullet drop and loss of energy to make it worth while, esp for hunting. Yes, I do use my .223 for hunting whitetails and hogs. Let's not forget to shoot smaller game also. |
|
Keep in mind the elevation wheel adjustments were designed for meters and not yards (i.e. 3 = 300m, not 300 yd). |
|
|
That is why I posted it in yards. Not everyone has the iron sights. Some have just scopes, like on my gun. I just took the priciple of the Santos and converted it to the yards for the .223 load.
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.