Break out the pop corn -> http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-sig-responds-to-atf-brace-ruling-will-take-action/

Pop corn ready...actually surprised to see Sig respond this way and actually glad to see it.

 

I really, REALLY need to buy a Sig.



One poster here put it perfectly, "It's like one day Sig woke up and said, 'You know what? Fuck the ATF'"

God Bless them.  I'm going on the record and stating that I will buy something Sig on my next purchase.

Surprised me a bit too.

Makes me think they may be looking more at the "declaratory judgment" thang than approaching it from a "damages" angle. Might be that Alex's company would be actual complainant or something, we'll see.

- OS

I for one am glad sig has this new attitude.

Way to go Sig!

I needed an excuse to go buy a new hand gun. Was debating the brand but sig was among them. Guess I now know what to buy. To sig, a big HOOAH!!!!

Anyone still sellin their brace for cheap???  May pick up a few more

nice to see Sig has lawyers with balls.

Thats the least they can do since thousands of us spent $120 dollars a piece on these things.

Somebody posted a link to several new weapons coming to market with sig braces.... an Uzi and a Galil I beleave? Sig stands to lose some big contracts over this.

Those aren't SIG branded products, apparently, but from Alex's company, Though who knows what the money flow actually is.

Another reason I think it may be Alex's company that has most standing to go for a declaratory judgment, if indeed that turns into the best response.



- OS

This. Last year I traded in my Black Rain .308 on a Sig 716. I felt the Black Rain should have performed better for the $2700.00 price tag. But after a summer full of light primer strikes I said fuck it. I was so pissed I didn't even want to give them a chance with one of my Geissele triggers. Lost a grand on my trade but couldn't be happier. I haven't run any "shit" ammo through it, but several types of commercially available ammo and not one FTF or FTE. Last spring I was looking for something lighter than my Colt Defender for EDC. I was tired of hitching up my pants all the time. I picked up a Sig P938 in "Black Rubber Grips". And again Sig shines bright!!! At 16 ounces without the mag I hardly know its there. And the 7 round extended mag is a plus for a pinky perch. Comes with Sig Light Night sites. Easy to see in a dark bedroom and shoots where you aim. I'm doing a couple pistol builds now, but I'll definitely look at Sig first for my next production purchase. They obviously have steel in their backbone. Good to see for a change.

I think they can prove it was greenlited. I also belive they would be able to prove a monitary loss.

 

indeed.

which reminds me... how's their fight against the ATF on those muzzle brakes going?


sounds a bit like Sig is saying that the ATF is being inconsistent.  



then again in my opinion the ATF needs to get the fuck out of writing laws anyway since there's no due process and many of their "laws" seem to be based on "because I said so".

Sigs got you chumps hook line and sinker.  Standing up to the evil ATF, better buy a special Sig to commemerate the occasion.  The Sig brace was always a stock posing as a brace, that nobody would use as a brace.  It was like selling crack pipes as tobacco pipes.

Absolutely. My very next gun purchase will be a Sig.  

Ok, so... no one should support Sig in your opinion? Name another firearm company, especially one of Sig's standing, actively challenging ATF bullshit on several fronts. Or maybe you think NFA laws are just fine and hope for more arbitrary rulings from the tech branch.

Keeping mine and I'll use it how ever I please.

If nobody takes these folks to task we will continuously get screwed over as consumers and the gun industry as a whole.

every market you go in around here has those little glass "pipes" in a case for sale LEGALLY as "tobacco pipes. does anyone honestly believe anyone smokes tobacco in them? i dont see the ATF realizing that their middle initial stands for tobacco & getting their panties wadded up over them. whats going to be funny is when they intimidate all these folks into filing for an SBR , then deciding they need to be regulated like automobiles & taxed yearly....when that or something similar happens, i dont want to hear the " i paid my tax & jumped thru their hoops, so you should too" SBR crowd cry the first tear. its about control vs gun rights, even if someone doesnt like the brace, eventually they will come after something you do like...

bought a sig 1911 back in the spring & it is the SWEETEST 1911 i've ever had in my hands. may look into another one really soon.

Yes please Sig do something so I can resell my brace in 4-6months at a alright profit.

Stugots!!

Its like Sig is creating products just to challenge the ATF.
They create a product, we buy it, they use profits from said product to take it to the ATF. If they win, they reclaim some of our freedom back, one little piece at a time.

I like to think this is true and one more firearm company is done bending over as we loose our rights.

Sig is kicking ass.

Conspiracy theory alert.  

Wonder if this Sig brace controversy is a calculated move on the part of the ATF to bait someone into court so they challenge AR pistols altogether thus making them a Form 1?

Bypass a senate vote, bypass a congress vote, and straight to the hands of a gun hating liberal judge. Brilliant! What a great back door way to register firearms.

If you like your pistol, you can keep your pistol... But now you just need to file a Form 1 and pay up.

Write your Congressman.

Oh I plan on it.

Brace or no brace, how am I supposed to sight in my AR pistol without steadying the thing on my shoulder and/or a bipod? Is it legal to use sandbags?

The Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans. So I'm not too worried about it heading to them. However, there are a couple whom have obtained seats that are hard to read.

For the most part, more than half of them would eat the ATF alive if given the chance.

If probably wouldn't even make it that far anyway. Too many Republicans in office now.

Yeah, right, 5/4 votes on Heller and McDonald, and Roberts has already turned conservative traitor on ObamaCare.  And of these folks could croak at any time. And Kennedy has already stayed on 2 years longer than he wanted to. And 8 years of Hillary coming up.

By the time a case like this makes it to SCOTUS, the court may so far left you'll need binos just to see it.

- OS

Don't forget, Reagan gave us the '86 machinegun ban and Bush gave us the '89 import ban.

The underlining reason for the import ban was actually a push to increase sales for U.S. Weapons manufacturers. HK, SIG, FN, and a few other now have weapons made here in the states, which in turn created jobs, increased competition, and helped out with various other things.

As far as the machinegun ban goes. That was for obvious reason at the time. Hell even today I don't think everyone should be able to buy a machingun. The kid next door just purchased an AR and he is dumber than a box of pop rocks. Imagining that idiot with a M249 would make me buy more ammo and a few more ballistic plates.

You can put a bipod on your pistol, & use sandbags.

Oh, I see, so those were all just "common sence gun control". Gotcha. Maybe AR15s should be banned since the fact that your neighbour has one bothers you.

Your obviously too dense to understand the basic principles of why things were done back then. It was the gun companies here in the states that sent lobbyist to Washington and had it pushed through. The same companies gave money to the NRA and caused a shit storm on both ends, which in turn confused idiots like you.

In turn we now have companies like HK and Sig here in the states, which is not what American companies wanted.

However, it kept companies, like Remington, from sending their manufacturing of weapons into Mexico and then selling them here.

I'm not going to go into the details because your not worth my time.

Interesting! You obviously seem too dense as well to understand the proper usage of "your" and "you're."

Freedom is dangerous, and laws don't protect you anyway. Get over yourself.

POWNED!

Freedom is threatened when people trust the Goverment more than their fellow man.

wow. had to do a double take when I saw where you live. would have assumed far east or far west coast.

I've got a flake living on my street. I'm not really happy with this guy owning a pistol, shotgun, knife, or baseball bat.  I guess I'd feel better if we banned those too.

clown

I'm typing on a 4"x5" screen. If you think I'm going to spell check everything i type on this overpriced piece of crap then your sadly mistaken. Especially, if it means appeasing those whom in no way shape or form mean anything to me. Seeing as how I have the benefit of signing my own paycheck, ill continue not giving a crap about checking for mistakes in my reports (on a forum that allows the use of emoticons of all things). When you start flipping the bill I will start writing a better thought out thesis. I will even check my spelling and grammar but it will cost you extra.

.

So should have to take a test to prove he's smart enough to enjoy his Constitutional Rights?

You're not covering the Corps with Glory here....

In fact, you're quickly proving the old adage of "80 Morons" in reference to mortar men....

?

Well, that is the issue, isn't it? No stock. How do you sight in any other pistol? it's done with a lot more control because it's not steady against your upper torso, just hanging out there off your hands.

Now, go surf the videos of guys hitting steel with a 9mm out to 400m. Gosh, how is that possible?

They practice and persevere. It can be done if you try.

That is the whole point about a "rifle" which has a flat vertical surface which is held against the shoulder - it steadies the rear of the weapon and makes it easier to aim with less error. That's why rifles have more range to reach out and accurately hit a target further out. And yet there are those who can hit 2MOA targets "freehanding" pistols with their bare hands.

Goes to skill - a stock just reduces the amount of inherent error that a lesser skilled shooter has. Lots of new shooters do much better at long range, or are more precise, because the sightline of the weapon is only bobbing around at one end and they can more easily control it.

A pistol with no stock is harder. But it's not impossible, and with practice it can be done.

Next element - since the ATF is NOT saying you can't hold the buffer tube against your shoulder, what does the flat vertical surface do for you? One, it spreads out the amount of recoil over a larger area. And in 5.56 it's not much, someone actually sold a chin rest a few years ago. More importantly it elevates the sight line and gets it up to the eye, some shooters have the toe of the stock high in the pocket.

BUT - you could just use another riser under the optics and get the same effect, or  get used to an (uncomfortably) low sight line.

In either or all cases, practice make perfect. We are all aware of many shooters who can hit targets out beyond 800m with just iron sights, so consider - the use of a stock is just an accessory, same as a red dot or VFG in front.

Nice to have. Not a mandatory feature. Being able to align the sights and put rounds on target still take practice and skill. Which brings up the point - if you can shoot well on a 3Gun course with an AR pistol no stock, vs the next guy with his tricked out stocked gun, who is exercising better skill and self discipline?

It's a PDW, it's not a RIFLE, so why do we even need a stock at all at the limited ranges we would likely engage at? Because it makes things a little simpler and easier for those with lesser skills.

Whatever the crafters of the NFA had in mind was social control over the masses, not an actual method to prevent a user from being accurate. Diligence and cheap ammo can overcome that. Better a pistol loaded in the car than a rifle cased empty in the trunk. Better skill acquired thru diligence than bandaids that dress up a gun. Would you want to go up against Chris Costa with an kitchen table built AR pistol that has no stock, or Joe Dweeb and his tricked out Barfcom special operations AR15 carbine with all the ambidextrous controls and less than one hundred rounds down range in his life?

I'll take a Marine or leg who can't punctuate over some self appointed grammar expert posting up in an internet thread. Trigger time counts more than keystrokes per minute.

I love this post!  And I gotta admit I'm one of the guys that have the toe of the stock high on my shoulder.  Shot my A2/A1 clone with stock iron sights that way last weekend.  Didn't even realize it until my BIL pointed it out.

That's cute I probably kicked in more doors during the invasion of Iraq than you could imagine. Also, Have you heard the saying "only thing that matters is the guy on point, the guy watching your six, and the guy to your right and left?" Well you were none of those to me so carry on. Your opinion of me is as valuable as the shit I wiped off my boots. Furthermore, I don't live in the past and could care less if my current actions leave a positive image of a job that I retired from almost five years ago.  


Edit: Anyone thinking that an Amendment is a constitutional right should consider taking a few government classes. Amendments can be altered and even appealed if the government sees fit.

If you don't believe me then feel free to check out the Eighteenth Amendment.

If a "Constitutional Right" can be appealed then its not a right. Instead, it is a privilege because privileges can be taken away.