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Posted: 4/19/2021 11:46:22 AM EDT
Looking at the clamshell Type versus the magpul bev block.
Any others? I have to remove some over torqued barrel nuts and trying not to break any more receivers or parts. |
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Quoted: Looking at the clamshell Type versus the magpul bev block. Any others? I have to remove some over torqued barrel nuts and trying not to break any more receivers or parts. View Quote Clamshell type is tried and true. |
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The best bets are probably the reaction rod type. I own a Midwest Industries Upper Receiver Rod and really like it. Never had an issue getting anything assembled or disassembled.
https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/MI-Upper-Receiver-Rod-p/mi-urr.htm I have a Magpul Bev block that I use now as just a magwell block, not nearly as supportive of the upper as something like the reaction rod. |
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Quoted: Sub $25 Wheeler Delta. Comes with a BCG insert to prevent receiver crush. I've put mine through the paces a few times now thanks to PSA and BCM. View Quote That one looks pretty good. I have a cheaper knockoff of it that doesn't include the insert, and I've still never had any problems. The insert adds even more strength margin of safety. People have been using blocks like these for years. |
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Does the clamshell’s insert interface with the barrel extension locking lugs and the upper receiver or clamshell? If not, what would stop the extension from rotating with the barrel nut and damaging the upper’s slot for the extension’s alignment pin?
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Quoted: Does the clamshell’s insert interface with the barrel extension locking lugs and the upper receiver or clamshell? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Does the clamshell’s insert interface with the barrel extension locking lugs and the upper receiver or clamshell? I don't think so. I think that it is mainly there to prevent any possibility of crushing. If not, what would stop the extension from rotating with the barrel nut and damaging the upper’s slot for the extension’s alignment pin? The barrel nut barely contacts the barrel extension at all, and mostly only on the forward surface, where I think it is pretty unlikely to be able to grip enough to damage the alignment slot of the receiver. It isn't like if you are say, torquing on a muzzle device without barrel blocks where the force of the barrel and extension are directly going to the receiver. |
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Quoted: Does the clamshell’s insert interface with the barrel extension locking lugs and the upper receiver or clamshell? If not, what would stop the extension from rotating with the barrel nut and damaging the upper’s slot for the extension’s alignment pin? View Quote I use the MI-URR with clam shell upper receiver vise blocks in place of the plastic insert to do just as you describe. |
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Quoted: The barrel nut barely contacts the barrel extension at all, and mostly only on the forward surface, where I think it is pretty unlikely to be able to grip enough to damage the alignment slot of the receiver. It isn't like if you are say, torquing on a muzzle device without barrel blocks where the force of the barrel and extension are directly going to the receiver. View Quote The barrel nut has quite a bit of friction between it the extension flange (especially if you forgot to grease that contact surface), certainly enough to leave a major dent in the upper receiver's indexing pin slot from the indexing pin being forced against it... I know, I've done it. |
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Quoted: Does the clamshell’s insert interface with the barrel extension locking lugs and the upper receiver or clamshell? If not, what would stop the extension from rotating with the barrel nut and damaging the upper’s slot for the extension’s alignment pin? View Quote The insert is to prevent crushing. There is still risk of index pin slot damage. |
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Quoted: I use the MI-URR with clam shell upper receiver vise blocks in place of the plastic insert to do just as you describe. View Quote Quoted: The barrel nut has quite a bit of friction between it the extension flange (especially if you forgot to grease that contact surface), certainly enough to leave a major dent in the upper receiver's indexing pin slot from the indexing pin being forced against it... I know, I've done it. View Quote Quoted: The insert is to prevent crushing. There is still risk of index pin slot damage. View Quote Thank you gentlemen for the replies. Yeah, as you’ve surmised from the specificity of my questions, I already knew the answer. Which makes me ask another question, why use any tool but the Midwest reaction rod? |
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Quoted: Thank you gentlemen for the replies. Yeah, as you’ve surmised from the specificity of my questions, I already knew the answer. Which makes me ask another question, why use any tool but the Midwest reaction rod? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I use the MI-URR with clam shell upper receiver vise blocks in place of the plastic insert to do just as you describe. Quoted: The barrel nut has quite a bit of friction between it the extension flange (especially if you forgot to grease that contact surface), certainly enough to leave a major dent in the upper receiver's indexing pin slot from the indexing pin being forced against it... I know, I've done it. Quoted: The insert is to prevent crushing. There is still risk of index pin slot damage. Thank you gentlemen for the replies. Yeah, as you’ve surmised from the specificity of my questions, I already knew the answer. Which makes me ask another question, why use any tool but the Midwest reaction rod? I've not yet had an issue with a clamshell block , so for me personally, no reason to change. |
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I've been using this one lately and really like it. I used a clamshell for years, but unfortunately they don't always work with billet or odd-shaped receivers. Link:
https://www.plastixrevolution.net/collections/ar15-upper-vise-blocks/products/ar-15-upper-receiver-vise-block |
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Quoted: I've not yet had an issue with a clamshell block , so for me personally, no reason to change. View Quote I understand if you’ve had it for years and its been good. But to buy new, now, for a “stubborn barrel nut”, I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t get the best tool for the job. |
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Quoted: Thank you gentlemen for the replies. Yeah, as you’ve surmised from the specificity of my questions, I already knew the answer. Which makes me ask another question, why use any tool but the Midwest reaction rod? View Quote Well, for removing a possibly stubborn barrel nut I prefer to use the clamshell upper receiver vise blocks with the MI-URR inserted into the upper for added support and to keep the barrel extension from twisting and possibly damaging the indexing pin and slot. For barrel installation which tool I use depends on if the front sight base is leaning one way or the other by a little bit... If the FSB is canted to the left then I will use the clam shell upper receiver vice blocks while tightening the barrel nut. If the FSB is canted to the right I will use the MI-URR while tightening the barrel nut. IF the front and rear sights are in perfect alignment then I'm likely use both the clam shell upper receiver vise blocks in combination with the MI-URR so they are more likely to stay aligned while torqueing the barrel nut. Yes, I have put too much thought into this. But always use barrel blocks for muzzle device work... No exceptions. |
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Quoted: Yes, I have put too much thought into this. But always use barrel blocks for muzzle device work... No exceptions. View Quote I’m hip. I too have used the “fix barrel” or “fix receiver” option when installing a barrel with a canted FSB. Got the barrel blocks and rosin as well for muzzle work. My wife thinks I have too many tools. I think I have exactly what I need for the job at hand. |
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Quoted: I’m hip. I too have used the “fix barrel” or “fix receiver” option when installing a barrel with a canted FSB. Got the barrel blocks and rosin as well for muzzle work. My wife thinks I have too many tools. I think I have exactly what I need for the job at hand. View Quote Common attribute. |
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Quoted: I’m hip. I too have used the “fix barrel” or “fix receiver” option when installing a barrel with a canted FSB. Got the barrel blocks and rosin as well for muzzle work. My wife thinks I have too many tools. I think I have exactly what I need for the job at hand. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Yes, I have put too much thought into this. But always use barrel blocks for muzzle device work... No exceptions. I’m hip. I too have used the “fix barrel” or “fix receiver” option when installing a barrel with a canted FSB. Got the barrel blocks and rosin as well for muzzle work. My wife thinks I have too many tools. I think I have exactly what I need for the job at hand. Great! So you get it, I was hoping I was clear enough trying to describe my reasoning. And you can never have too many tools, I wouldn't expect any wife to understand that though... If anything I suppose I could narrow down my AR tool collection just a little since I've figured out what works and what I really need after being at this for so long now. I know if I knew what I knew now when I was just starting out I certainly could have saved myself some money, but I also would have bought some tools that you just can't get anymore since they stopped making them. |
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Quoted: The best bets are probably the reaction rod type. I own a Midwest Industries Upper Receiver Rod and really like it. Never had an issue getting anything assembled or disassembled. https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/MI-Upper-Receiver-Rod-p/mi-urr.htm I have a Magpul Bev block that I use now as just a magwell block, not nearly as supportive of the upper as something like the reaction rod. View Quote How so? Just curious. Even with the BCG/CH inserted into the upper it isnt as supportive? Never had issues with it jn the past |
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Quoted: How so? Just curious. Even with the BCG/CH inserted into the upper it isnt as supportive? Never had issues with it jn the past View Quote Inserting the carrier into the upper while using the BEV-Block literally does nothing at all to support the upper against torque. All it does is stop the upper from flopping around so much. The only support that the BEV-Block offers for the upper is at the front pivot pin lug and that interface is loose enough to basically do nothing... Plus you wouldn't want the stress being transferred to only that spot of the receiver anyways. However, the standard Reaction Rod designs are not inherently any better than the BEV-Block. The Reaction Rod type tools with the block or "fin" (as some say) on top of the rod that engages the slot for the charging handle are the way to go when considering such a tool since they actually prevent the upper from damaging itself against the indexing pin. |
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MI rod which has a spline that tightly locks inside the upper receiver channel for the charging handle.
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Quoted: I understand if you’ve had it for years and its been good. But to buy new, now, for a “stubborn barrel nut”, I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t get the best tool for the job. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I've not yet had an issue with a clamshell block , so for me personally, no reason to change. I understand if you’ve had it for years and its been good. But to buy new, now, for a “stubborn barrel nut”, I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t get the best tool for the job. I can't argue that the MI-URR is one of the best tools out there. |
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Quoted: I can't argue that the MI-URR is one of the best tools out there. View Quote I wouldn't argue that either, it looks like a great tool. And using it WITH traditional receiver blocks may be a new best way to do it. I've just never had an issue with the old fashioned blocks I have, even without the Wheeler style insert, and although my wife is generally tolerant of me buying tools as needed, I haven't been able to justify spending what an MI-URR costs. I guess for the OP, I'd say if you are really worried, go with receiver blocks AND an MI-URR. |
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Quoted: I wouldn't argue that either, it looks like a great tool. And using it WITH traditional receiver blocks may be a new best way to do it. I've just never had an issue with the old fashioned blocks I have, even without the Wheeler style insert, and although my wife is generally tolerant of me buying tools as needed, I haven't been able to justify spending what an MI-URR costs. I guess for the OP, I'd say if you are really worried, go with receiver blocks AND an MI-URR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I can't argue that the MI-URR is one of the best tools out there. I wouldn't argue that either, it looks like a great tool. And using it WITH traditional receiver blocks may be a new best way to do it. I've just never had an issue with the old fashioned blocks I have, even without the Wheeler style insert, and although my wife is generally tolerant of me buying tools as needed, I haven't been able to justify spending what an MI-URR costs. I guess for the OP, I'd say if you are really worried, go with receiver blocks AND an MI-URR. I'm really curious what you can do with the receiver blocks that cant be done with the MI-URR? I haven't found anything I cant do with the MI-URR, and do easily. Buying both just seems a bit redundant to me, not that there's anything wrong with redundancy when it comes to both tools and guns. |
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Quoted: I'm really curious what you can do with the receiver blocks that cant be done with the MI-URR? I haven't found anything I cant do with the MI-URR, and do easily. Buying both just seems a bit redundant to me, not that there's anything wrong with redundancy when it comes to both tools and guns. View Quote Personal preference. And about an $80 difference in price.. At this point, with as many URGs as I have assembled, a MI-URR makes perfect sense. First time around, not so much. |
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Using a reaction rod would be the dumbest thing you could do.
You are unscrewing a nut that is threaded on to a receiver. You need to hold the receiver. Use a good clamshell and go to work. |
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For the ultimate, THIS can't be beat.
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Quoted: MI-URR has a provision to secure the upper receiver. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Using a reaction rod would be the dumbest thing you could do. You are unscrewing a nut that is threaded on to a receiver. You need to hold the receiver. Use a good clamshell and go to work. MI-URR has a provision to secure the upper receiver. Sure, and WAY better than the actual Reaction Rod I was talking about..... but on a tough barrel nut, with potentially 2 or 300 lbs of torque required to break it.... I don't want anything grabbing on to the barrel extension and popping it loose, putting that stress on an extension pin, nor using only that small shelf in the upper receiver to take all the torque applied. |
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Quoted: Sure, and WAY better than the actual Reaction Rod I was talking about..... but on a tough barrel nut, with potentially 2 or 300 lbs of torque required to break it.... I don't want anything grabbing on to the barrel extension and popping it loose, putting that stress on an extension pin, nor using only that small shelf in the upper receiver to take all the torque applied. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Using a reaction rod would be the dumbest thing you could do. You are unscrewing a nut that is threaded on to a receiver. You need to hold the receiver. Use a good clamshell and go to work. MI-URR has a provision to secure the upper receiver. Sure, and WAY better than the actual Reaction Rod I was talking about..... but on a tough barrel nut, with potentially 2 or 300 lbs of torque required to break it.... I don't want anything grabbing on to the barrel extension and popping it loose, putting that stress on an extension pin, nor using only that small shelf in the upper receiver to take all the torque applied. No argument here man. I haven't borked an index pin slot yet so clamshell will continue to fill my need. I've done a couple of PSA nuts that were a bitch, a BCM that was as well (bone dry/no lube on top of things) and a RRA that took a pipe wrench to free. The RRA looked to have been installed with thread locker. |
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I had a PSA barrel nut that was stuck, I shoved a board up the mag well and layed it on the floor and it worked.
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Quoted: Why? Every receiver block does the same thing but costs an extra ~40$. PSA uppers are pretty cheap, there is zero reason to invest substantial money on a specialty tool in the hopes you prevent some type of damage - if shit breaks buy another receiver. View Quote The majority of those are intended for use as essentially a "third hand" for cleaning and light maintenance tasks, not barrel nut work. Borked mag catch assy, broken pivot pin ear/s or mag well damage are initial possible damage points. Also, there is still the possibility of a spun barrel or index pin notch damage. |
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Quoted: The majority of those are intended for use as essentially a "third hand" for cleaning and light maintenance tasks, not barrel nut work. Borked mag catch assy, broken pivot pin ear/s or mag well damage are initial possible damage points. Also, there is still the possibility of a spun barrel or index pin notch damage. View Quote Possibly but how many examples exist of this happening? If there was an epidemic of it I assume there would be a lot more pictures out there, I suspect the percentage of receivers damaged from this approach to barrel nut removal is less than the percentage of 20 years olds dying of covid. That said if you want to be worried about it do what you got to do. |
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Quoted: Why? Every receiver block does the same thing but costs an extra ~40$. PSA uppers are pretty cheap, there is zero reason to invest substantial money on a specialty tool in the hopes you prevent some type of damage - if shit breaks buy another receiver. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Brave soul. Why? Every receiver block does the same thing but costs an extra ~40$. PSA uppers are pretty cheap, there is zero reason to invest substantial money on a specialty tool in the hopes you prevent some type of damage - if shit breaks buy another receiver. There is a reason tools are made.... I guess I could just try to fix everything with duct tape and pliers.... but experience tells me that will end up poorly. Just like shoving a piece of wood up a lower receiver magwell and wrenching on an upper will. Just because something works sometimes doesn't exclude it from being stupid. |
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Quoted: Possibly but how many examples exist of this happening? If there was an epidemic of it I assume there would be a lot more pictures out there, I suspect the percentage of receivers damaged from this approach to barrel nut removal is less than the percentage of 20 years olds dying of covid. That said if you want to be worried about it do what you got to do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The majority of those are intended for use as essentially a "third hand" for cleaning and light maintenance tasks, not barrel nut work. Borked mag catch assy, broken pivot pin ear/s or mag well damage are initial possible damage points. Also, there is still the possibility of a spun barrel or index pin notch damage. Possibly but how many examples exist of this happening? If there was an epidemic of it I assume there would be a lot more pictures out there, I suspect the percentage of receivers damaged from this approach to barrel nut removal is less than the percentage of 20 years olds dying of covid. That said if you want to be worried about it do what you got to do. There's actually a pretty good reason that there hasn't been an epidemic of people posting about damaging parts using your method of barrel nut removal, and that's because no one does it that way. That's literally the first time I've ever heard of what you did being done... Probably the most risky method I've ever heard of. As for other flawed logic methods like the standard Reaction Rods, and vise blocks that only hold the upper receiver by the takedown and pivot pins, there's been numerous reports throughout the years about the damage they have caused... Using only a piece of wood through the mag well to torque on the barrel nut is asking for trouble and you likely did cause damage somewhere and you just don't have the ability to inspect the parts with any level of competence to even notice. What you did wasn't just a "to each their own" preference in style of doing things, it was just purely retarded at best. |
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Quoted: There's actually a pretty good reason that there hasn't been an epidemic of people posting about damaging parts using your method of barrel nut removal, and that's because no one does it that way. That's literally the first time I've ever heard of what you did being done... Probably the most risky method I've ever heard of. As for other flawed logic methods like the standard Reaction Rods, and vise blocks that only hold the upper receiver by the takedown and pivot pins, there's bee numerous reports throughout the years about the damage they have caused... Using only a piece of wood through the mag well to torque on the barrel nut is asking for trouble and you likely did cause damage somewhere and you just don't have the ability to inspect the parts with any level of competence to even notice. What you did wasn't just a "to each their own" preference in style of doing things, it was just purely retarded at best. View Quote That's a substantial exaggeration. There is no fundamental difference between using a vice block and using wood, both apply pressure to the mag well that gets transferred through the pins. If there was a stupid approach it would be reaction rods which place all the pressure on the alignment pin slot in the receiver but regardless there isn't widespread reports of this happening. Of course you're free to do it how you want, and people are free to wear masks for the rest of their lives . |
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Quoted: There is no fundamental difference between using a vice block and using wood, both apply pressure to the mag well that gets transferred through the pins. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: There is no fundamental difference between using a vice block and using wood, both apply pressure to the mag well that gets transferred through the pins. Vice blocks for a magwell are NOT designed to do upper receiver/barrel nut work. Apparently you missed that memo. Doing barrel work with EITHER is just plain stupid. If there was a stupid approach it would be reaction rods which place all the pressure on the alignment pin slot in the receiver but regardless there isn't widespread reports of this happening Once again, you are mistaken. There are widespread reports of this happening and they have been reported here for years. It is a very small percentage in overall use of reaction rods, but MUCH higher incidence compared to upper receiver clamshell issues. Of course you're free to do it how you want, and people are free to wear masks for the rest of their lives . That's a poor straw-man argument. People use a straw man when they lack a good technical base for their position. |
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Quoted: I've been using this one lately and really like it. I used a clamshell for years, but unfortunately they don't always work with billet or odd-shaped receivers. Link: https://www.plastixrevolution.net/collections/ar15-upper-vise-blocks/products/ar-15-upper-receiver-vise-block View Quote I came to post this. I'll admit, though, I've never had to break anything apart that was really stuck together. |
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Quoted: I came to post this. I'll admit, though, I've never had to break anything apart that was really stuck together. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I've been using this one lately and really like it. I used a clamshell for years, but unfortunately they don't always work with billet or odd-shaped receivers. Link: https://www.plastixrevolution.net/collections/ar15-upper-vise-blocks/products/ar-15-upper-receiver-vise-block I came to post this. I'll admit, though, I've never had to break anything apart that was really stuck together. I use this style when I have something customer that my clamshell won't work on, for AR15 and AR10 sizes. You have to be a little careful as they wont take as much torque as a clamshell, but I haven't had any issues yet and used them many times. |
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Quoted: That's a substantial exaggeration. There is no fundamental difference between using a vice block and using wood, both apply pressure to the mag well that gets transferred through the pins. If there was a stupid approach it would be reaction rods which place all the pressure on the alignment pin slot in the receiver but regardless there isn't widespread reports of this happening. Of course you're free to do it how you want, and people are free to wear masks for the rest of their lives . View Quote Which block are you referring to? There are upper blocks that slide into the upper reciever, and index into the slot for the CH, which also secure at the take down pins. They are specifically molded for the internal dimensions to prevent any damage and twisting of the reciever. Chucking a non formed piece of wood into the upper is a far cry from the above method Using any type of mag block for lower reciver work, to perform upper reciever work is 100% retarded |
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