AR Sponsor
|
Quoted: Now that I look at it, the only difference on this is the word barrel was omitted for the Recce 16, is that even different or did BCM jut forget to put the word barrel? Lol, it might be a stupid question, but does that mean anything? -Recce 16 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Extension and Mod 0 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension. No difference there, just a typo. |
|
Quoted: Yes, but the front sight will be in your field of view. While the Mod 0 is functional, it doesn't sound like it's optimal for what you're looking for. If you don't mind waiting a few weeks, Sionics is an excellent value: https://sionicsweaponsystems.com/lawenforcement/sionics-patrol-rifle-three/ Sionics has the same commitment to quality components as BCM, but Sionics rifles are better gassed and more accurate in my experience. What is the main reason you don't think the Mod 0 is optimal? If an M-LOK was added to the Mod 0 do you think that would make it optimal? |
|
Quoted: What is the main reason you don't think the Mod 0 is optimal? If an M-LOK was added to the Mod 0 do you think that would make it optimal? Fixed front sight base and plastic handguard. Changing that out would take expensive gunsmith work since the front sight is also the gas block which is pinned to the barrel. The longer free float handguard on the MLOK pairs with a low profile gas block that attaches with a set screw into a barrel divot that the Mod 0 barrel doesn't have. Shaving fixed front sight bases and drilling barrel dimples are things that a lot of the members here can do, but you're not them. The fixed front sight on the Mod 0 may limit your optics options. The front sight obscuring the field of view bothers some people and not others and can also depend on the optics type and height. The plastic handguard limits where and how you can mount a flashlight. Again, it may work for you or it may not. The MLOK style handguard provides a lot of flexibility for someone who doesn't yet know exactly what they want. Since BCM is apparently out of lowers at the moment, I'd recommend the complete Sionics rifle that I posted above which is a slightly improved version of the BCM MLOK rifle. |
|
Quoted: Fixed front sight base and plastic handguard. Changing that out would take expensive gunsmith work since the front sight is also the gas block which is pinned to the barrel. The longer free float handguard on the MLOK pairs with a low profile gas block that attaches with a set screw into a barrel divot that the Mod 0 barrel doesn't have. Shaving fixed front sight bases and drilling barrel dimples are things that a lot of the members here can do, but you're not them. The fixed front sight on the Mod 0 may limit your optics options. The front sight obscuring the field of view bothers some people and not others and can also depend on the optics type and height. The plastic handguard limits where and how you can mount a flashlight. Again, it may work for you or it may not. The MLOK style handguard provides a lot of flexibility for someone who doesn't yet know exactly what they want. Since BCM is apparently out of lowers at the moment, I'd recommend the complete Sionics rifle that I posted above which is a slightly improved version of the BCM MLOK rifle. I see. Didn't realize it would be such a hassle. |
|
Quoted: I'd recommend the complete Sionics rifle that I posted above which is a slightly improved version of the BCM MLOK rifle. I appreciate that suggestion, I'll definitely consider it. I'm curious though what you think about the BCM recce 16 MCMR? How do you think that would suit someone like me? Another member here found a seller who has it in stock and I just recently found another seller that has it for cheaper. Also, how would you compare it to the Sionics rifle? https://www.freedomtrading.com/BCM-Recce-16-MCMR-p/bcm-carbine-750-750.htm Or is the BCM recce 16 MCMR what you meant by the BCM MLOK rifle? You seem pretty knowledgeable so if you don't mind, I'll put a couple more questions to you: Is their really any significant difference between CMV barrel and barrel that is not CMV? Would they be worth the extra cost? What do you think about the following?: The other thing I was considering, which a couple of people here have mentioned. Is to get a BCM complete recce upper. Then getting a complete Areo Precision lower. But, I just don't trust Areo Precision to the degree that I trust BCM so I'm hesitant. Also, would their be any potential compatibility issues between the two? I'm guessing that lowers probably last longer than uppers because they don't see near the amount of wear, right? Would an Areo Precision lower last roughly the same as a BCM lower? What about the warranties? Do they typically still honor the same warranty even if not purchasing the complete rifle? Something like these: https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-standard-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-bcm-mcmr-15-handguard/ https://www.primaryarms.com/aero-precision-ar15-standard-complete-lower-receiver Also to clarify, would I literally be able to just snap these together and be done with it or would I still need additional parts? |
|
To answer one of your questions, any mil. spec. lower should attach to any mil spec. upper without issue. Some may be a slightly tighter fit than others. Uppers and lowers attach through 2 pins and attaching them should take a few seconds. As someone who has built 6-7 lowers using stripped lowers from a number of mfg's. including Aeroprecision, Spike's Tactical and even PSA my personal view is that the stripped receiver is one of the least important parts of an AR. As long as it's in spec. it is GTG. And nothing wrong with a complete Aeroprecision lower either - particularly if you eventually choose to swap out a couple of parts. For example, I really like Radian ambidextrous safeties, but I also shoot left handed so that's more of an issue for me than a right handed shooter. I also don't run a stock trigger on any of the AR's I own. So they either get a Geissele or a LaRue MBT trigger. Some people prefer to have the lower and the upper from the same company and talk a lot about "stacked tolerances". IMHO opinion that's mostly bullshit. I have never had any kind of issue running a lower from one company and an upper from another - assuming you are not using a total junk lower or a total junk upper. And that's from someone who's owned a bunch of AR's and been shooting them for 20 years. However, if you eventually want to sell a gun with mix and match upper and lower from different mfg.'s you will take a hit on what you will get for it. Only other reason I would pay a premium to get a top tier lower is if you want a fully ambidextrous lower from a company like LMT. Finally, I would not hesitate to buy a so-called "blemished" lower from a company like BCM or Aeroprecision. You can generally save a bunch of money and more often than not you will be hard pressed to even find the supposed "blemish". The same holds true for something like a "blemished" Geissele complete rifle (another good alternative) when they go on sale. You can save a bunch of money and will get a great bargain. |
|
Quoted: I was looking at the Recce 16 and M4 Mod 0 side by side on the BCM website Recce 16 https://bravocompanymfg.com/bcm-recce16-mcmr.html M4 Carbine Mod 0 https://bravocompanymfg.com/bcm-m4-carbine-mod0.html I see three differences: -Recce 16 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Extension and Mod 0 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension. -Recce 16 has a Mid Length Gas System and Mod 0 has a Standard Carbine Gas System -Recce 16 has MCMR handguard and Mod 0 has a polymer handguard Theoretically, couldn't I just get the M-LOK handguard for the Mod 0 and wouldn't it be basically the same gun? What difference would these other two things really make? -Recce 16 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Extension and Mod 0 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension. -Recce 16 has a Mid Length Gas System and Mod 0 has a Standard Carbine Gas System Now that I look at it, the only difference on this is the word barrel was omitted for the Recce 16, is that even different or did BCM jut forget to put the word barrel? Lol, it might be a stupid question, but does that mean anything? -Recce 16 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Extension and Mod 0 is 16" Standard Government Profile Barrel 1/7 Twist, M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension. I think you're overthinking this, analysis paralysis if you will. Just get a Colt 6920 until you can sort out all the minutia between and within different brands. |
|
Honestly, for the price I think this is going to be tough to beat if you decide to buy upper and lower separately - https://bravocompanyusa.com/cosmetic-blem-bcm-bfh-14-5-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-complete-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/ I would choose the option where they will pin and weld a flash hider to get you to 16'. Right now included free bolt carrier group. You can pick up a mil spec. charging handle for almost nothing, or spend a little more to get an ambi. charging handle. You also get a cold hammer forged barrel, which is a nice upgrade. And I think for a do it all rifle a 14.5" barrel is a good choice. |
|
I would get a mid-length gas over a carbine. ML has proven totally reliable with at least 14.5" barrels and longer, if not 12". It has advantages. Do some research and you'll learn about them. I'm not a fan of M4 profile barrels, just because. The cut near the muzzle is for attaching an M203 grenade launcher, so it's mostly worthless for non military use. They were popular 20 years ago when everyone wanted their rifle to look like what soldiers were carrying. I don't know why companies still sell them so often, but its just a personal preference, that I don't find an M4 profile as aesthetically pleasing. You doing the right the by asking questions and learning. Your options are mind boggling and will confuse the Hell out of you. I, like others have suggested, think maybe a lower priced AR, like a Palmetto State Armory, would be a great starting point. You'll learn a lot just getting out shooting and, especially, being around other AR shooters just BS'ing. You'll also learn a $600 PSA will sling led just as well as a $2k Gucci gun. A rock bottom PSA should go 10k rounds before accuracy becomes an issue, but with maintenance and maybe some normal spring replacement, will continue to throw rounds down range. You can also replace the old barrel for less than $100! I have many ARs and love my BCM/Larue, but also know my PSA or 20 year old Stag Arms rifle will do anything I need very well. Please understand, many people will push their favored brand, some vehemently so, but remember it's just a favored brand, nothing more. ARs are like Lego guns. They snap together and, as long as the parts are in spec and meet quality standards, will do a great job. The rest is aesthetics, increased accuracy (a rack grade AR is still usually plenty accurate), and things like a lighter trigger or smoother recoil experience. And you can tweak a cheap AR and make it feel and perform like a more expensive one, within limits. Buy a bunch of mags and ammo. Good luck! |
|
Quoted: Honestly, for the price I think this is going to be tough to beat if you decide to buy upper and lower separately - https://bravocompanyusa.com/cosmetic-blem-bcm-bfh-14-5-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-complete-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/ I would choose the option where they will pin and weld a flash hider to get you to 16'. Right now included free bolt carrier group. You can pick up a mil spec. charging handle for almost nothing, or spend a little more to get an ambi. charging handle. You also get a cold hammer forged barrel, which is a nice upgrade. And I think for a do it all rifle a 14.5" barrel is a good choice. So, if I choose the Mod 1 it will end up being at least 16" right? How do I know which Charging handle to choose, Large or medium? What is the difference between the upper you linked to and this one which is a similar price besides the blem? It looks like this one is MK2 and the other one is BFH, what does that mean? https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-standard-14-5-mid-length-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/ Would you say they are the same as or an upgrade from a BCM recce 16 MCMR? |
|
Quoted: I think you're overthinking this, analysis paralysis if you will. Just get a Colt 6920 until you can sort out all the minutia between and within different brands. Yep, you're defintiely right about that, I am overthinking it. But then again, I always do for big purchases. I like to get it right the first time if possible. I really want to like the Colt 6920, but I've read a lot of bad things about Colt in general, so I have a hard time trusting them. I'll think about it though. The other thing which another member pointed out is the front sight may cause an issue with a red dot by blocking some of the field of view. Do you think it will obstruct the field of view more than a regular front sight? |
|
The BCM Mk. 2 upper has some proprietary features. I have one and I live it, though I can't tell any real difference in performance at this point. BFH is BCM's acronym for cold hammer forged barrels. CHF barrels are usually chrome lined and command a premium, and should last longer, though most of us will never burn enough ammo to recoup the cost. That said, I have several FN and BCM CHF barrels and like that they're CHF, even though I wouldn't know it from just shooting them. As for length, it requires an extra long flash hider to make a 14.5" reach to 16", but there are tons of styles and brands made to do just that, and BCM will add the correct one. If you want to kinda go all out, a BCM Mk.2 Enhanced Lightweight BFH upper is a great option. It's a premium, for sure. If you think you might want a suppressor in the future, you may want to pin and weld with one of the common can mount flash hiders, like a SilencerCo. The more questions you ask, the more questions you'll have  Charging handles are a personal preference. The large sticks out a lot, but I haven't seen an issue using one. It helps my arthritic fingers get a grip. I think a medium would work well too, as its bigger than a standard GI version. Some people just love the GI version! I dont. |
| A standard front sight doesn't pose a problem for most shooters using a red dot. Yea, its there and blocking some view but its never bothered me. Some people prefer the security of knowing the front sight is always there and generally bomb proof. I just started using a flip up front sight and like it also, though I'm using it with an LPVO, not an RDS. |
|
Quoted: The BCM Mk. 2 upper has some proprietary features. I have one and I live it, though I can't tell any real difference in performance at this point. BFH is BCM's acronym for cold hammer forged barrels. CHF barrels are usually chrome lined and command a premium, and should last longer, though most of us will never burn enough ammo to recoup the cost. That said, I have several FN and BCM CHF barrels and like that they're CHF, even though I wouldn't know it from just shooting them. As for length, it requires an extra long flash hider to make a 14.5" reach to 16", but there are tons of styles and brands made to do just that, and BCM will add the correct one. If you want to kinda go all out, a BCM Mk.2 Enhanced Lightweight BFH upper is a great option. It's a premium, for sure. If you think you might want a suppressor in the future, you may want to pin and weld with one of the common can mount flash hiders, like a SilencerCo. The more questions you ask, the more questions you'll have Charging handles are a personal preference. The large sticks out a lot, but I haven't seen an issue using one. It helps my arthritic fingers get a grip. I think a medium would work well too, as its bigger than a standard GI version. Some people just love the GI version! I dont. Yes indeed, my questions have multiplied since posting this, but I also know a lot more and I'm starting to get a clearer picture. So, I think it's good thing. Aside from the headache anyway  Something that is still confusing me though. Complete 16" rifles like the recce 16 or mod 0, are they actually 14.5" barrels with flash hiders, or are they actual 16" barrels with flash hiders making them actually longer than 16"? |
| They have 16" barrels. A flash hider adds additional length. For example, a standard A2 flash hider is 1.75", but some of that length is just covering the threaded barrel. IIRC, adding an A2 FH to a 16" barrel will give you around 17.25" of overall "barrel" length. While a 14.5" is handier, its not a huge difference and many folks go 16" so they don't have to pin and weld. A 16" mid-length AR is a mighty handy carbine, especially if it has a light weight barrel. As discussed the options are many and some of the variations offer real performance increases, but it depends a lot on your goal. A light weight barrel is handy, but a heavier barrel can be countered by a heavier buttstock, creating a nicely balanced rifle, with the added benefit of better accuracy when hot. Though, a lighter weight carbine carries easier, over all. Choices...!!! |
|
Quoted: I appreciate that suggestion, I'll definitely consider it. I'm curious though what you think about the BCM recce 16 MCMR? How do you think that would suit someone like me? Another member here found a seller who has it in stock and I just recently found another seller that has it for cheaper. Also, how would you compare it to the Sionics rifle? https://www.freedomtrading.com/BCM-Recce-16-MCMR-p/bcm-carbine-750-750.htm Or is the BCM recce 16 MCMR what you meant by the BCM MLOK rifle? You seem pretty knowledgeable so if you don't mind, I'll put a couple more questions to you: Is their really any significant difference between CMV barrel and barrel that is not CMV? Would they be worth the extra cost? What do you think about the following?: The other thing I was considering, which a couple of people here have mentioned. Is to get a BCM complete recce upper. Then getting a complete Areo Precision lower. But, I just don't trust Areo Precision to the degree that I trust BCM so I'm hesitant. Also, would their be any potential compatibility issues between the two? I'm guessing that lowers probably last longer than uppers because they don't see near the amount of wear, right? Would an Areo Precision lower last roughly the same as a BCM lower? What about the warranties? Do they typically still honor the same warranty even if not purchasing the complete rifle? Something like these: https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-standard-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-bcm-mcmr-15-handguard/ https://www.primaryarms.com/aero-precision-ar15-standard-complete-lower-receiver Also to clarify, would I literally be able to just snap these together and be done with it or would I still need additional parts? The BCM RECCE 16 MCMR is what I meant by BCM MLOK. In your position, I recommend you buy that BCM from Freedom Trading and be done with it. I've bought from them several times before, and they are legit. Personally, I prefer the Sionics since they are more consistently well gassed and more accurate. I have multiple rifles of each brand and have seen dozens of each in week-long rifle courses. They are both excellent guns though, so you can't go wrong either way. As for the Aero lower, yes, it will snap to a BCM upper and function. The only issues I see with that specific Aero lower is the wrong buffer weight, threaded bolt release, and threaded rear take-down pin detent hole. The buffer should be an H weight instead of carbine weight, but that is super easy to swap out and part of normal field stripping for cleaning. I've seen the threaded bolt releases come loose many times, so you'd want to keep an eye that. Haven't seen any issues with threaded rear take-down pin detent holes, but it does use non-standard parts. Otherwise, lowers either have the holes drilled in the right places or they don't, so they either work or they don't. There is no difference in longevity between them. BCM will warranty a complete upper from them, and Aero would likely warranty a complete lower if the problem is from their respective parts. If you do buy a BCM upper then make sure you click the right boxes to get the bolt carrier group, charging handle, and flash hider with it. ETA: I have several Colt 6920s and have seen hundreds of them in rifle classes. They are good rifles, but I would not recommend you buy one for the same reasons that I would not recommend you buy the BCM Mod 0. The Colt 6960 is a good option though. |
|
Something I always recommend, as well, is to check the exchange here. I bought my BCM upper for a significant discount and in unused condition. People buy rifles/parts and use them a little or maybe not at all and move on to the next shiny object. Sometimes life happens and they need cash before firing a round. The exchange here is my first stop when I need anything, from an upper to a magazine release to a weapon mounted light (WML). Speaking of WMLs, I highly recommend one in addition to a good sling. You don't need an optic, but they have definite advantages. Im no expert, but have a few suggestions: WML: Stream light is a solid performer at a reasonable price. The TLR1 is a handgun light, but works very well on a rifle. It can be set up to use a remote (wired) switch or be thumb activated by working the rocker switch at the rear of the light. The HL version is more powerful and not necessary, but nice to have. I really like the Protac Rail Mount HL-X as well. Sling: Can be any type, but I prefer the "patrol" style, quick adjust. I also prefer the light weight type, like the Ferro Concepts Slingster, but the VTac/Vickers slings are great and are bullet proof. I need the padded variety, due to past surgeries, but YMMV. Optics: Totally personal preference, but driven by intended use. If you have astigmatism, a red dot will appear as a star burst. I've gone to prism sights, like the excellent Primary Arms micro prisms in 1x or 3x, and I'm now trying an low powered variable optic (LPVO) and digging it. For home defense to 200 yards, a red dot can work fine and can be had pretty cheap. The batteries last like 5 years of constant on and they're very rough, so it's a no brainer if you have good eyes. A cheap AR can become VERY expensive, very quickly  .
|
|
Quoted: So, if I choose the Mod 1 it will end up being at least 16" right? How do I know which Charging handle to choose, Large or medium? What is the difference between the upper you linked to and this one which is a similar price besides the blem? It looks like this one is MK2 and the other one is BFH, what does that mean? https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-standard-14-5-mid-length-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/ Would you say they are the same as or an upgrade from a BCM recce 16 MCMR? This refers to the size of the charging handle latch, either large or medium will work. Just make sure the CH is for an AR-15 and not and AR-10 (.308). Another variation is an ambidextrous charging handle, which means there is a latch on both the left and right side of the CH. A large CH latch is easier to manipulate, i.e., put your hand on and pull back, than a medium or small CH. The downside is it is more likely to press on your chest if the rifle is tight slung against your body, and/or get caught on other things. I never saw the need for a large myself. |
|
Yes, it's really easy to be overwhelmed by choices, even within a particular mfg. As another poster has pointed out, the differences between the upper I linked to and the non-blemished upper you referred to is that my suggestion has an enhanced light weight barrel profile, which will make the upper slightly lighter, yet insure that barrel remains fairly stiff. My suggestion also has a cold hammer forged barrel, which should have a longer life and may be slightly more accurate, but adds to the cost. (Saying "may" because I'm not 100% sure this is true). So, if you're willing to accept a slight blemish you will end up with a rifle that has some features that are arguably considered desirable (lighter weight, longer barrel life) for a little less than the non-blemished alternative you're looking at. And as for charging handle - I like large ambi. ones, but I'm left handed. Larger ones are generally easier to operate, but there can be a concern that they're more likely to get snagged. Ultimately, you should not get too overwhelmed by all the choices and options. There are a bunch of companies making solid, accurate and reliable rifles. And whether you end up with a BCM, LMT, Sionics, DD, etc. you will have a great rifle that should last many years. The most important factor in a rifle's performance will always be YOU. If you have a very tight budget it would be far better for you to buy an inexpensive PSA rifle and a ton of ammo, and become really proficient with it than to buy a tricked out LMT that never leaves your safe. And as to barrel length, for a first rifle I think most would suggest either a 16" barrel or a 14.5" barrel with a pinned and welded flash hider. These represent a great compromise between maneuverability, reliability, and being effective at distance. And I agree with the poster who suggested that, if you decide to pin and weld you should consider whether you might ever want to add a suppressor and pick a FH/muzzle brake that works with a variety of suppressors. Of course, the topic of suppressors is a whole other discussion and yet another rabbit hole that's easy to fall into. |
|
Quoted: Honestly, for the price I think this is going to be tough to beat if you decide to buy upper and lower separately - https://bravocompanyusa.com/cosmetic-blem-bcm-bfh-14-5-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-complete-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/ I would choose the option where they will pin and weld a flash hider to get you to 16'. Right now included free bolt carrier group. You can pick up a mil spec. charging handle for almost nothing, or spend a little more to get an ambi. charging handle. You also get a cold hammer forged barrel, which is a nice upgrade. And I think for a do it all rifle a 14.5" barrel is a good choice. And it's gone.  Good deals can go quick. But with some patience I suspect this will be back again.
|
|
OP, You are overthinking this way too much. All your research and "mod this" and "mod that" is going to drive you and us crazy trying to get you settled down on "the perfect rifle", when you haven't even owned one yet. For cripes sake do this: Go to Palmetto State Armory https://palmettostatearmory.com/ Buy a $499 AR15. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa15-16-nitride-m4-carbine-556-nato-moe-ar15-rifle-black.html Shoot it for a year - a lot. Decide what you want different. Sell the PSA and buy your grail gun. |
|
Quoted: LWRC doesn't offer anything over BCM in regard to the above concerns. I know you said LWRC isn't any better than BCM but what about at least the same quality as BCM? I ask because another member here found a LWRC rifle for an outstanding price. It's even cheaper than the BCM recce 16 currently. Other than you being in favor of the Sionic (which I'm still considering), would you recommend the following LWRC rifle or is there anything you think it's lacking or could be an issue with it? One of the members here had a bad experience with them, but I'm not sure if I should let that stop me from buying it or not. Another member pointed out that it has proprietary parts which could be an issue down the road. Price is $1,378.28 after you email for the price. Or is the recce 16 a better rifle? What do you think? https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/lwrc-di-rifle-556nato-16.1-mlok-blk It's pretty much down to the above LWRC, BCM recce 16, DDM4v7, or the Sionic rifle you recommended. I don't think I want a lower from a different company so I probably won't go the BCM upper route unless I can find a BCM lower in stock. I'm also not going to get the BCM Mod 0 based off of your recommendation. I think your right that I need more flexibility if this is going to be my only one. |
|
Quoted: In general, I prefer BCM, but not in this case. The handguard on that BCM uses Key Mod on the sides and nothing on top. Key Mod which is basically a dead end and losing favor. That LWRC uses a Picatinny rail across the entire top, upper receiver and handguard, and M-LOK on the handguard sides. That's a more popular arrangement than what's on that BCM. There are other BCM rifles I would buy instead of that LWRC, but you didn't ask that question. Would you still prefer the Recce 16 even if the LWRC could be gotten for $1378? The recce 16 is $1,560.00. https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/lwrc-di-rifle-556nato-16.1-mlok-blk |
|
Quoted: Would you still prefer the Recce 16 even if the LWRC could be gotten for $1378? The recce 16 is $1,560.00. https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/lwrc-di-rifle-556nato-16.1-mlok-blk They're less than $200 apart, that's not a big deal to me on something that expensive. For logistic reasons I tend to prefer standard ARs over non-standard ARs; bigger manufacturers over smaller manufacturers; companies that have/had military contracts over those that don't; mid-length over carbine-length gas systems; companies focused on a few things and doing them very well not spread out trying to do too much. Maybe some of those sound/are contradictory. Your mileage may vary. If the gun is defective, or breaks, or wears out can you get replacement parts? If the company goes out of business and the gun needs service, will you be out of luck? What's the warranty and service like? Will they still be in business during your lifetime? Can the LWRC non-standard BCG be replaced with a standard AR15 BCG? The LWRC SMG 45 was a disaster and left a bad impression on me. I'd suggest you go to a local gun shop that rents guns (for use on their range) and handle and shoot a few different higher end guns to see what you like. Maybe take an AR15 class first just to better familiarize yourself and decide if what you think is important really is important. Some instructors will lend/rent their rifles during classes. One one thing I noticed on the Sionics rifle is the rail has some non-MLOK holes, the small holes at the front left/right sides and the large holes at 45 degrees between the top/bottom and left/right sides. That would prevent attaching something like an angled optic that uses M-LOK there. BCM for me. Good luck
|
|
Quoted: They're less than $200 apart, that's not a big deal to me on something that expensive. For logistic reasons I tend to prefer standard ARs over non-standard ARs; bigger manufacturers over smaller manufacturers; companies that have/had military contracts over those that don't; mid-length over carbine-length gas systems; companies focused on a few things and doing them very well not spread out trying to do too much. Maybe some of those sound/are contradictory. Your mileage may vary. If the gun is defective, or breaks, or wears out can you get replacement parts? If the company goes out of business and the gun needs service, will you be out of luck? What's the warranty and service like? Will they still be in business during your lifetime? Can the LWRC non-standard BCG be replaced with a standard AR15 BCG? The LWRC SMG 45 was a disaster and left a bad impression on me. I'd suggest you go to a local gun shop that rents guns (for use on their range) and handle and shoot a few different higher end guns to see what you like. Maybe take an AR15 class first just to better familiarize yourself and decide if what you think is important really is important. Some instructors will lend/rent their rifles during classes. One one thing I noticed on the Sionics rifle is the rail has some non-MLOK holes, the small holes at the front left/right sides and the large holes at 45 degrees between the top/bottom and left/right sides. That would prevent attaching something like an angled optic that uses M-LOK there. BCM for me. Good luck Those are some good points. Plus I just realized their is no mention about a Chrome lined barrel on the official LWRC website. It looks like the LWRC is out. Thanks. |
|
Quoted: OP, You are overthinking this way too much. All your research and "mod this" and "mod that" is going to drive you and us crazy trying to get you settled down on "the perfect rifle", when you haven't even owned one yet. For cripes sake do this: Go to Palmetto State Armory https://palmettostatearmory.com/ Buy a $499 AR15. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa15-16-nitride-m4-carbine-556-nato-moe-ar15-rifle-black.html Shoot it for a year - a lot. Decide what you want different. Sell the PSA and buy your grail gun. Ok. Yeah I know, it's getting a little bit ridiculous. But I think I'm getting close though. I apologize if I'm annoying anybody. I've learned a lot from you all and I really appreciate all the help. |
|
Quoted: Those are some good points. Plus I just realized their is no mention about a Chrome lined barrel on the official LWRC website. It looks like the LWRC is out. Thanks. Quoted: Quoted: They're less than $200 apart, that's not a big deal to me on something that expensive. For logistic reasons I tend to prefer standard ARs over non-standard ARs; bigger manufacturers over smaller manufacturers; companies that have/had military contracts over those that don't; mid-length over carbine-length gas systems; companies focused on a few things and doing them very well not spread out trying to do too much. Maybe some of those sound/are contradictory. Your mileage may vary. If the gun is defective, or breaks, or wears out can you get replacement parts? If the company goes out of business and the gun needs service, will you be out of luck? What's the warranty and service like? Will they still be in business during your lifetime? Can the LWRC non-standard BCG be replaced with a standard AR15 BCG? The LWRC SMG 45 was a disaster and left a bad impression on me. I'd suggest you go to a local gun shop that rents guns (for use on their range) and handle and shoot a few different higher end guns to see what you like. Maybe take an AR15 class first just to better familiarize yourself and decide if what you think is important really is important. Some instructors will lend/rent their rifles during classes. One one thing I noticed on the Sionics rifle is the rail has some non-MLOK holes, the small holes at the front left/right sides and the large holes at 45 degrees between the top/bottom and left/right sides. That would prevent attaching something like an angled optic that uses M-LOK there. BCM for me. Good luck Those are some good points. Plus I just realized their is no mention about a Chrome lined barrel on the official LWRC website. It looks like the LWRC is out. Thanks. LWRC only does CHF nitride barrels. Best thing about them is their lowers. |
|
Quoted: Ok. Yeah I know, it's getting a little bit ridiculous. But I think I'm getting close though. I apologize if I'm annoying anybody. I've learned a lot from you all and I really appreciate all the help. Get something solid, simple and straight forward for now and spend the next year learning. I prefer Colts. The model 6960 looks like a solid option (I didn't know it existed). The recommendation for a PSA setup is pretty good too. |
|
Quoted: I know you said LWRC isn't any better than BCM but what about at least the same quality as BCM? I ask because another member here found a LWRC rifle for an outstanding price. It's even cheaper than the BCM recce 16 currently. Other than you being in favor of the Sionic (which I'm still considering), would you recommend the following LWRC rifle or is there anything you think it's lacking or could be an issue with it? One of the members here had a bad experience with them, but I'm not sure if I should let that stop me from buying it or not. Another member pointed out that it has proprietary parts which could be an issue down the road. Price is $1,378.28 after you email for the price. Or is the recce 16 a better rifle? What do you think? https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/lwrc-di-rifle-556nato-16.1-mlok-blk It's pretty much down to the above LWRC, BCM recce 16, DDM4v7, or the Sionic rifle you recommended. I don't think I want a lower from a different company so I probably won't go the BCM upper route unless I can find a BCM lower in stock. I'm also not going to get the BCM Mod 0 based off of your recommendation. I think you're right that I need more flexibility if this is going to be my only one. I don't have nearly as much experience with LWRC as I do with BCM. I've seen about a dozen of the LWRCs in classes and haven't documented any issues with them. Meanwhile, I've seen three times as many BCMs and owned a half dozen of them. I also trust BCM as a company to always try to do things right. Many years ago there was an industry shortage of the correct bolt steel, so other companies were substituting inferior steel to make bolts. BCM just stopped selling BCGs for a while and took the financial hit. When they had to choose between doing it wrong or not doing it all, BCM chose to not do it. Personally, I would choose BCM over LWRC at the same price based on my own personal experience. That's doesn't mean I'm right though. LWRC charges a premium because of non-standard features that cost more to produce like spiral fluted barrels, proprietary uppers and handguards, one-piece carriers, internal coatings, and ambi lowers. None of those features matter to me though and some of them I find to be drawbacks, so I've never been interested in paying extra for them. Different doesn't always mean better either. For instance their piston systems and spiral fluted heavy barrels are noticeably heavier with no performance gain, and the nickel boron coating they were using for a while was inferior to standard finishes. Again, I'm not saying LWRC is a bad rifle or inferior to BCM. I just don't value their features, which is totally personal preference, so there's no reason for me to turn away from a rifle with proven track record in this instance. |
|
Quoted: I also trust BCM as a company to always try to do things right. Many years ago there was an industry shortage of the correct bolt steel, so other companies were substituting inferior steel to make bolts. BCM just stopped selling BCGs for a while and took the financial hit. When they had to choose between doing it wrong or not doing it all, BCM chose to not do it. Personally, I would choose BCM over LWRC at the same price based on my own personal experience. That's doesn't mean I'm right though. Gotchya. I would agree, it does sound like BCM is more trustworthy than LWRC. A couple more questions and I'll leave you alone: How do you feel about Daniel Defense compared to BCM? Because I found a DDM4 V7 for about $1,565! That's the lowest price I've seen on that gun and from what I can tell, it has a better barrel than the BCM. It has a cold hammer forged barrel. Or would you still go for the BCM recce 16? The other question was about buying an upper and lower. I know I just said I wouldn't buy a lower from a different company, but I think I would trust sionics lower enough. Do you think their would be any issue pairing this BCM upper. https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ With this Sionics lower? https://sionicsweaponsystems.com/lawenforcement/sionics-complete-lower-receiver-premium-edition/ What options would you choose for the lower? Two stage or no? What should the buffer weight be? Which flash hider would you choose for the upper? Thanks again for all your help. |
|
Quoted: Gotchya. I would agree, it does sound like BCM is more trustworthy than LWRC. A couple more questions and I'll leave you alone: How do you feel about Daniel Defense compared to BCM? Because I found a DDM4 V7 for about $1,565! That's the lowest price I've seen on that gun and from what I can tell, it has a better barrel than the BCM. It has a cold hammer forged barrel. Or would you still go for the BCM recce 16? The other question was about buying an upper and lower. I know I just said I wouldn't buy a lower from a different company, but I think I would trust sionics lower enough. Do you think their would be any issue pairing this BCM upper. https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ With this Sionics lower? https://sionicsweaponsystems.com/lawenforcement/sionics-complete-lower-receiver-premium-edition/ What options would you choose for the lower? Two stage or no? What should the buffer weight be? Which flash hider would you choose for the upper? Thanks again for all your help. I've seen as many DD rifles in classes as BCM, and they've all done well. I only have one personal DD, and it's been good too. DD is a brand I recommend along with BCM. BCM uppers pair well with Sionics lowers. I have both of those Sionic triggers, and the two-stage upgrade is worth it. Buffer weight should be H. A2 flash hider for muzzle device. |
|
OP - you are really getting a ton of good info. here. Sounds like Topgun gets to see a bunch of different rifle subject to a heavy firing schedule in various classes, which is a very valuable data point. I've owned a couple of DD rifles/uppers, an LMT and a couple of BCM uppers so I do have some personal experience with them - although a much smaller sample size than Topgun. And although I don't normally spend an entire day putting rounds through them, I've never had an issue with any of them. Bottom like DD, BCM, LMT all make very solid rifles. Hell I've even run a couple of PSA lowers and never had a problem. But as I've said before, the most important part of the equation is you, not the rifle. Spend $4-500 to buy a thousand rounds of XM193, find a local range, and just start shooting. If you ever find yourself in a position where you need to use your rifle to protect yourself and your family developing proficiency/muscle memory by putting thousands of rounds through your AR will be a lot more important than whether your gun has a cold hammer forged barrel or an ambidextrous charging handle. |
|
Quoted: Would you still prefer the Recce 16 even if the LWRC could be gotten for $1378? The recce 16 is $1,560.00. https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/lwrc-di-rifle-556nato-16.1-mlok-blk Quoted: Quoted: In general, I prefer BCM, but not in this case. The handguard on that BCM uses Key Mod on the sides and nothing on top. Key Mod which is basically a dead end and losing favor. That LWRC uses a Picatinny rail across the entire top, upper receiver and handguard, and M-LOK on the handguard sides. That's a more popular arrangement than what's on that BCM. There are other BCM rifles I would buy instead of that LWRC, but you didn't ask that question. Would you still prefer the Recce 16 even if the LWRC could be gotten for $1378? The recce 16 is $1,560.00. https://dahlonegaarmory.com/product/lwrc-di-rifle-556nato-16.1-mlok-blk LWRC is a way better value, really the best value on the market for several years for a Premium / Enhanced AR design. LWRC-DI = -Best in class (along with LMT) Fully Ambi Lower -Enhanced BCG with integral machined gas key and boron nitride coating -Extended upper receiver with extended length top rail for more optics space -Semi monolothic handguard; handguard screws directly into upper receiver not barrel nut -Cold Hammer Forged, Nitiride barrel with medium-heavy profile and midlength gas -All small parts nitrided -Excellent ambi charging handle -90% of the parts are made in house by LWRC Really nothing comes close in the $1300-$1600 zone in terms of features. It would be absurd to pay more for (if this is the rifle in question?) much less. https://www.bravocompanymfg.com/bcm-recce16-mcmr.html |
|
Alright I'm finally about to go for it. I found a couple complete BCM lowers from Brownels. They are not in stock but they will allow back order. I don't mind waiting for what I want. I want to get one of the following uppers: https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ Or https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ And one of the following Complete lower receivers: https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter-stock/?sku=100018639 or https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter--sopmod-stock/?sku=100034403 These uppers and lowers should work with each other no problem, correct? For the uppers, would the light weight be less durable? Or is it just superior material? Also, I don't have the slightest clue how to choose the lower receiver, what are the practical differences? Would I be correct in saying that these combos of uppers and lowers for the price is fully superior to just buying a complete recce 16 is it not? |
|
Quoted: Alright I'm finally about to go for it. I found a couple complete BCM lowers from Brownels. They are not in stock but they will allow back order. I don't mind waiting for what I want. I want to get one of the following uppers: https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ Or https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ And one of the following Complete lower receivers: https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter-stock/?sku=100018639 or https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter--sopmod-stock/?sku=100034403 These uppers and lowers should work with each other no problem, correct? For the uppers, would the light weight be less durable? Or is it just superior material? Also, I don't have the slightest clue how to choose the lower receiver, what are the practical differences? Would I be correct in saying that these combos of uppers and lowers for the price is fully superior to just buying a complete recce 16 is it not? Yes, those are compatible and no different than buying them as a complete rifle. It's cheaper due to the lack of federal excise tax built into the price. Both of those uppers have cold hammer forged barrels that offer longer barrel life. The only difference is the barrel profile. The ELW is thicker at the chamber and gets thinner toward the muzzle. This profile balances more of the weight toward the rear of the rifle. The other upper has a government profile which is thinner under the handguards and thicker near the muzzle which results in being a little more front heavy. The lowers have different stocks. The SOPMOD has a wider cheek rest. |
|
Quoted: OP, You are overthinking this way too much. All your research and "mod this" and "mod that" is going to drive you and us crazy trying to get you settled down on "the perfect rifle", when you haven't even owned one yet. For cripes sake do this: Go to Palmetto State Armory https://palmettostatearmory.com/ Buy a $499 AR15. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa15-16-nitride-m4-carbine-556-nato-moe-ar15-rifle-black.html Shoot it for a year - a lot. Decide what you want different. Sell the PSA and buy your grail gun. 1000% this!!!!! OP you think you're going to pick out the do all end all perfect rifle and in the end I guarantee within six months, if that, you're going to start making all kinds of changes on it or sell it for something else. |
|
Quoted: Yes, those are compatible and no different than buying them as a complete rifle. It's cheaper due to the lack of federal excise tax built into the price. Both of those uppers have cold hammer forged barrels that offer longer barrel life. The only difference is the barrel profile. The ELW is thicker at the chamber and gets thinner toward the muzzle. This profile balances more of the weight toward the rear of the rifle. The other upper has a government profile which is thinner under the handguards and thicker near the muzzle which results in being a little more front heavy. The lowers have different stocks. The SOPMOD has a wider cheek rest. 100% The Brownells photo for the lower with the Gunfighter stock doesn't look correct, a better photo (not price) is this one: https://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-company-mfg-complete-lower-receiver-assembly-gunfighter-stock-bcm-lrg-stk-mod-0-blk Great choices! |
|
Great choices. As a couple of posters have pointed out LWRC is also solid and definitely has its fan base, but several of its parts are proprietary, which may prove problematic down the road. For example, BCG's are pretty sturdy, but they are not indestructible and may need to be replaced after 10,000 or 15,000 rounds (if you ever get there). Nice to be able to with any mil. spec. BCG. And you've got the Brownells coupon code "AR15" for free shipping and hopefully some money off as well, right? Finally, Brownells is usually pretty good to deal with. Bought a bunch of stuff from them over the years, including a couple of DD uppers. Now, after all this research, buy a bunch of ammo and at least a couple of 30 round mags and get out to the range. 
|
|
Quoted: Great choices. As a couple of posters have pointed out LWRC is also solid and definitely has its fan base, but several of its parts are proprietary, which may prove problematic down the road. For example, BCG's are pretty sturdy, but they are not indestructible and may need to be replaced after 10,000 or 15,000 rounds (if you ever get there). Nice to be able to with any mil. spec. BCG. And you've got the Brownells coupon code "AR15" for free shipping and hopefully some money off as well, right? Finally, Brownells is usually pretty good to deal with. Bought a bunch of stuff from them over the years, including a couple of DD uppers. Now, after all this research, buy a bunch of ammo and at least a couple of 30 round mags and get out to the range. The LWRC DI setup can use any standard milspec BCG. |
|
Almost ready to order, but I need to decide two things. Does anyone have an opinion on whether to get the SOPMOD or standard lower? It sounds like the SOPMOD might be more comfortable, but I don't want it to be bulky. SOPMOD lower https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter--sopmod-stock/?sku=100034402 Standard lower https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter-stock/?sku=100018639 Also, for the upper. Is it worth getting the MOD 0 over the free A2 flash hider or no? https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ |
| I'll make it easier for you. Buy the ELW barrel upper and the standard Gun fighter stocked lower. They should balance with each other well. You don't want a light barrel and heavy butt stock. For a close to medium range fighting rifle, you want light weight and balance toward the middle, for fast handling. Of course, those are serious generalizations, but it'll get you where you want to go. The cheek weld on the stock won't shouldn't be a big deal, but for $35-$100, you can put just about any stock on your rifle in less than a minute. Don't sweat these small details since they're easily changed. The ELW barrel has a lot of fans here. I have the standard A2 14.5" and its great, too, but the ELW would be my choice if I hadn't gotten a smoking deal on the A2 version. Ultimately, the difference isn't much at all anyway. |
|
Quoted: Almost ready to order, but I need to decide two things. Does anyone have an opinion on whether to get the SOPMOD or standard lower? It sounds like the SOPMOD might be more comfortable, but I don't want it to be bulky. SOPMOD lower https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter--sopmod-stock/?sku=100034402 Standard lower https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter-stock/?sku=100018639 Also, for the upper. Is it worth getting the MOD 0 over the free A2 flash hider or no? https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/ If you don't know then the standard stock is a safer bet. The free A2 flash hider is fine. Stocks and muzzle devices are easy to change later if necessary. |
|
I build a lot of rifles for the guys at my PD. I have preferences for parts over the years buying duty rifles and personal ARs. I prefer the Aero M4E1 lower to the BCM. It has better features and cosmetics. The BCM is just plain milspec. I have never seen or had unissued with an Aero M4E1 lower. They are just a tiny bit heavier. As far as tolerance stacking... the adjustment screw of the Areo Precision removes the wiggle slop... then its just how much gcosmetic gap do you have between upper and lower, do the finishes match, and cosmetic issues. I have seen the basic non M4E1 milspec Aero lowers with too wide a front take down lug spacing that would cause upper/lower wiggle left/right at the front lug without a loaded mag inserted, including Aero uppers. The guy I built the rifle for said in that case said he would never have noticed had I not showed him the wiggle which was miniscule... but we want perfection. I have seen standard Aero lowers (non M4E1) where all the interior machining was offset to one side a few thousandths so it ended up with one super thick wall on one side and one super thin wall on the other. Multiple were done like that as I used to buy them in lots of 3 to 5 lowers. Not see it like that in years and never seen anything but perfection on the M4E1 lowers. The screw in bolt catch (if locktighted) and captured selector spring (requires trimming selector spring to use) is also a great addition. Don't get the Cerakoted receivers though... the anodized is much better. I prefer BCM uppers and BCM receiver extensions to a others that are not expensive matched billet sets. They are the best milspec upper and milspec receiver extensions IMO and of reasonable price. I use Geissele SSA-E triggers because they are tbe best IMO, BCM Mod3 grip, and I hate ambi lowers or ambi controls other that the charging handle. I prefer the V7 lightweight right handed 57 degree selector, not the titanium paddle or ambi one (pure personal preference... its the aluminum factory looking one I use.) I like the V7 Ultralight port door cover if you care about looks or the Magpul one if you don't care about plastic looks. Both are better than milspec other than cost IMO. I prefer the JP polished carbine recoil springs to all others. Combined with a BCM receiver extension and a tiny but of Tetra grease it is silly smooth. People aleays ask how my ARs are so smooth charging. I prefer the BCM Mod3 grip due to my large hand size and shape. I really like the Magpul SL stock if you don't use body armor or the SL-K if you do. Nothing is as good to me for ergos, rattle free, etc. The BCM is just meh. As for barrels. First choice is Daniel Defense 16" CHF lightweight midlength and second choice is BCM 16" CHF midlength ELW. The DD is more accurate, the BCM is lighter. Criterion is a third choice but usually heavier, less accurate, more expensive, or some combination that makes DD and BCM the go to. For gas blocks... Riflespeed or Superlative Arms. For me, adjustable is a must on everything and these are the only two I 100% trust. And only the set screw version. And custom pinned if reliability is more important than easy barrel replacement. I have a couple SLR blocks, but I don't 100% trust em and won't buy more with tbe Riflespeed and Superlative being available. For bolt... JP or BCM or Toolcraft Carpenter, in that order. For carrier... JP, BCM, or Toolcraft DLC depending on application. Best small parts have been a mix of V7, KNS, and CMMG. Standard small parts really don't matter much. I think the BCM MCMR rail is OK. The MI Combat Rail is better because it is lighter, cheaper, has better anti rotation, isjust as easy to install, and used to have a better finish that matched Aero but the new finish is kinda rough. No reason to pick an MCMR over an MI Combat if buying parts but no reason to swap from an MCMR if it came with an upper. I am not a fan of all MI rails either... just the Combat and only when money is a limiting factor for rail choice. Charging handle? Best used to be Griffin Armament SNACH until they changed their latch design. Now they pop loose too easy. None are perfect. Right now a Radian Raptor is probably the safest bet. It is also kind of meh. Muzzle device? I require QD suppressor attachments and overall the Silencerco ASR 3 prong flash hider wins for me. Others will have preference for Griffin, Dead Air, Surefire, etc. I have my reasons for not liking each of those but it's personal preference. You won't keep the A2. You don't want a brake. So as you can see... you will probably swap multiple parts to achieve the "best" rifle no matter what... grip, stock, trigger, charging handle, etc. BCM locks you into a no feature milspec lower. The complete upper will lock you into an MCMR rail... and that is fine. But I see no reason to buy a BCM lower other than the logo, receiver extension, and a $15 grip. If you build the lower you will MUCH prefer everything the M4E1 has to offer. I would buy the upper first and bring it in and check the wiggle between the front lugs of the lower and front lug of the upper that you buy in person at a gunstore before paying for the lower. If you can't hear any clicking due to excess play, buy that lower. You will still need an SSA-E trigger to get anything ultimate no matter what. At that point, why not just build the lower? If you go M4E1 the only tool you need is one small punch and the MCMR barrel wrench is the finest castle nut wrench you can buy. You just need a cheap Harbor Freight torque wrench or any 1/2" square drive and you can hold the lower in a buddies vice by an old PMAG inserted in the magwell to install the castle nut. Everything else can be done in your lap. You will eventually want a vice and tools to swap barrels and gas blocks and so forth anyway, trust me. |
|
@ DevL So, yesterday I ended up buying something a bit different than I said I would. I ended up with the DDm4v7 complete upper and the BCM gunfighter complete lower. I got the DD upper because everyone says they have significantly better barrels. I didn't get the full rifle because everyone says they come with awful triggers. Plus I saved $200. I found a good deal and didn't pay much more than I would have for a BCM upper. I called Daniel Defense and emailed BCM. They both seem to think the two will play nicely with each other. But do you think they are not going to fit properly? Do you think they will be loose? I usually see most people agreeing that the BCM is higher quality than Areoprecision, you don't think so? Or are you just saying Areo has more features? Paid $1,400 for both the upper and lower including everything, tax, shipping, transfer fee....everything. Decent no? |
|
Its not rare to have a slight bit of play between an upper and lower. It doesn't affect anything, except people's OCD. My BCM upper and Larue lower have a very small amount slop. I couldn't care less. So don't sweat upper and lower fit. If they lock together, and your DD and BCM will, nothing else matters. This issue is only a concern when encountering substandard parts. Some home/gunshow builders buy bulk from the cheapest place. It's normally fine, but bad parts can slip through, like during the mad rush of 2008, so that's why receiver fit is discussed. I'd be very shocked if you have any sort of actual issue. If it happened, those companies will fix it. You're not buying from questionable companies. They're well liked/preferred for a reason. Now STOP WORRYING!!!
|
|
Quoted: Its not rare to have a slight bit of play between an upper and lower. It doesn't affect anything, except people's OCD . My BCM upper and Larue lower have a very small amount slop. I couldn't care less. So don't sweat upper and lower fit. If they lock together, and your DD and BCM will, nothing else matters. This issue is only a concern when encountering substandard parts. Some home/gunshow builders buy bulk from the cheapest place. It's normally fine, but bad parts can slip through, like during the mad rush of 2008, so that's why receiver fit is discussed. I'd be very shocked if you have any sort of actual issue. If it happened, those companies will fix it. You're not buying from questionable companies. They're well liked/preferred for a reason. Now STOP WORRYING!!!Ok good. Thanks! |
|
I always recommend BCM: - There a WI company - The owner is a great American. - I've been using their stuff since they started and it's all Mil Spec and very reliable. I have multiple BCM guns and they all work. I also own LMT and consider them on Par, I've also owned Colt and they work well also. I have some Aero Precision and so far, they work well also. Buy, shoot...get good, shoot some more, get better and you will discover if you gun is reliable or a liability. Nothing makes up for Skill and experience. |
AR Sponsor