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Posted: 1/17/2015 11:21:43 AM EST
[#1]
Saw one over on the big auction site with a buy it now price of $40 earlier this morning with a buffer tube. Just checked and it's gone but LOTS of others for cheap listed.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 11:31:11 AM EST
[#2]
buying 4 and taping them to my shoulder
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Posted: 1/17/2015 11:40:24 AM EST
[#3]
The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX.
Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. The new open letter basically just says if your intent is to use the brace as a stock then it is a stock. If you redesign the brace to be a stock it is a stock. I think it is simple logic that if the physical appearance of a firearm is legal or illegal based on your intent or design intent of a certain part of the firearm that all firearms could now be illegal or legal based on intent or design intent alone. A Glock held at the shoulder would be an intended SB rifle, A shotgun fired with one hand would be an intended pistol, a machine gun fired one round at a time would be redesigned as a semi auto and a tank driven to work would be a redesigned daily driver car. In other words the letter does not say anything other than if your intent is to redesign the brace it is no longer a brace. * Is holding the brace to your shoulder a redesign or an obvious result of using the tube as a cheek weld? *Did the letter state anything about removing and reinstalling the brace based on use? No *Does the letter state that shouldering the brace is illegal or did it say using the brace as a redesigned shoulder stock is illegal? *Is holding an ARMBRACE to the shoulder an intended redesign into a stock or is it simply holding an ARMBRACE in a different temporary position? *Does placing your hand on the last 4 inches of a 16'' barrel redesign that portion of barrel into a hand grip and make the rifle a 12'' SBR? This is arguably as logical as the redesign of the brace. The letter means nothing legally other than scaring people into believing they think it sounds like something that might mean something if it was worded like it might be. It's intent is to slow sales of a company they are in legal battles with and hurt them financially without actually saying ''I screwed up''. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 12:00:59 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX. Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 12:21:22 PM EST
[#5]
Quoted:
Less then 24 hrs since the letter hit the net( ATF Letter ) and prices are dropping like the proverbial rock... Osage County Guns has then now for $89.99 http://www.osagecountyguns.com/firearm-accessories/sig-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace.html Prices on E Bay are also significantly lower and some are stating that there will be no returns specifically because of legal issues. To bad we can't say the same for complete short barrel upper prices and availability. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 12:43:32 PM EST
[#6]
So it looks like its fucked then.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 12:45:33 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX. Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's. More likely getting out of the Sig brace thing all together. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 1:30:39 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More likely getting out of the Sig brace thing all together. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX. Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's. More likely getting out of the Sig brace thing all together. Nah.... |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 2:30:03 PM EST
[#9]
people should have shut up and not send in "countless" of letters about the shouldering of a sig brace. well form 1s are about to go up.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 5:52:54 PM EST
[#10]
Will buy one for cheap.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:20:16 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
people should have shut up and not send in "countless" of letters about the shouldering of a sig brace. well form 1s are about to go up. Not for everyone.... it's pretty safe to say that unless you frequent public ranges, you are fine with your sig brace. Im not getting rid of my SBX anytime soon. I'll form 1 my 12.5" eventually but for the time being, SBX it is |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:51:49 PM EST
[#12]
Its going to be hard to prove that you were shouldering vs getting a cheek weld on buffer tube.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:52:25 PM EST
[#13]
Hrm, have been holding off on buying a SB as I thought they were a bit silly, was going to succumb and buy one today.
Now to decide, should I Form1 my rifle upper (started as a pistol) or my current pistol lower. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:53:50 PM EST
[#14]
The smartest thing to do is sell them if you have them.
You can always buy another brace down the road. Risk mitigation against the unknown. I'm listing both of mine and keeping one. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:57:00 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hrm, have been holding off on buying a SB as I thought they were a bit silly, was going to succumb and buy one today. Now to decide, should I Form1 my rifle upper (started as a pistol) or my current pistol lower. Thoughts? Form 1 all the things. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 7:01:38 PM EST
[#16]
Everyone that sells one has the idiot that wrote the letter to thank....
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Posted: 1/17/2015 7:13:47 PM EST
[#17]
With this wording it is now illegal to shoulder the crutch tips and foam covers as this will constitute a redesign. After all, the ONLY reason for a crutch tip is to shoulder the gun. Same for the foam, it is there for cumfort while shouldering. They will have fun enforcing this.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 7:43:20 PM EST
[#18]
I am not selling mine. Its unenforceable.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 7:54:13 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nah.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX. Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's. More likely getting out of the Sig brace thing all together. Nah.... You reeeeally think that all of sudden, by some magic coincidence, everyone is wanting an SBX instead(which is ugl-ier as hell to some. but to each his own)...and it has nothing to do with this huge event? Wow.  Whatever. Carry on then.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 8:34:11 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You reeeeally think that all of sudden, by some magic coincidence, everyone is wanting an SBX instead... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX. Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's. More likely getting out of the Sig brace thing all together. Nah.... You reeeeally think that all of sudden, by some magic coincidence, everyone is wanting an SBX instead... Yeah, the letter under question addresses all pistol stabilization braces, on any firearm type, so it's silly to think everyone is switching to SBX because it is exempt or something. - OS |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 8:56:19 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Form 1 all the things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hrm, have been holding off on buying a SB as I thought they were a bit silly, was going to succumb and buy one today. Now to decide, should I Form1 my rifle upper (started as a pistol) or my current pistol lower. Thoughts? Form 1 all the things. Yes, that is the ticket, get in line, quiet down and pay the extortion fee. I have trained with my SB15's and found that just establishing a good cheekweld will put the end of the brace very close to my shoulder. While this works great, I gotta wonder if there will be a proximity threshold from the rear of the Pistol Brace to the shoulder /chest area that will constitute "intent" and magically transform my cheekweld into a shoulderweld . Time to write a letter to the BATFE 
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Posted: 1/17/2015 9:07:07 PM EST
[#22]
one of my FFLs had a good idea if u knew where the nearest range with ATF agents at it. Buy one of these dirt cheap and put it on my SBR...and then go and shoot in a nearby lane. Let'm freak out, then bust out the stamp with a "yeah bitches, suck it!"
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Posted: 1/17/2015 11:07:25 PM EST
[#23]
one of my FFLs had a good idea if u knew where the nearest range with ATF agents at it. Buy one of these dirt cheap and put it on my SBR...and then go and shoot in a nearby lane. Let'm freak out, then bust out the stamp with a "yeah bitches, suck it!" Stupid, but ballsy
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Posted: 1/18/2015 2:08:45 AM EST
[#24]
Reading all these post has got me laughing.
Why? We all bitch and complain when the federal govt and others have a knee jerk reaction to a mass shooting and the "gun ban" rhetoric starts to fly. Look at all of you and the knee jerk reactions. Number one it isn't a law stating you can't shoot a gun with 2 hands. Secondly, it states if when you build the lower and intend to use the brace as a stock then in fact it is now a SBR. It takes a lot to prove "intent". Stop knee jerking to a letter that has no date. Also stop until it's made an actual law. If it's not a law, they can't charge you with anything. Just my .02 worth |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 2:20:26 AM EST
[#25]
ATF would lose big in court with their back and forth.
Too many rational arguments, two-handed pistol grip, cane tips, CAA saddles, using a rifle extension on a pistol, the earlier Sig Brace letters...too many opinions to the contrary of this new letter to stand up in court. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 2:38:31 AM EST
[#26]
Too bad the rest of my pistol build parts will be in next week... Been planning on taking the canoe out fishing... Never really got the hang of keeping it upright...
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Posted: 1/18/2015 4:28:42 AM EST
[#27]
Its the shape of a stock people.
It's literally the shape of a stock. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 5:23:14 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its the shape of a stock people. It's literally the shape of a stock. What the fuck is your point? |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:14:12 AM EST
[#29]
I sold mine 2 weeks ago on ebay for $100. Glad I did it when I did.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 10:32:46 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading all these post has got me laughing. Why? We all bitch and complain when the federal govt and others have a knee jerk reaction to a mass shooting and the "gun ban" rhetoric starts to fly. Look at all of you and the knee jerk reactions. Number one it isn't a law stating you can't shoot a gun with 2 hands. Secondly, it states if when you build the lower and intend to use the brace as a stock then in fact it is now a SBR. It takes a lot to prove "intent". Stop knee jerking to a letter that has no date. Also stop until it's made an actual law. If it's not a law, they can't charge you with anything. Just my .02 worth That's not what the latest letter said |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:09:03 AM EST
[#31]
Sounds like it's a good time for me to buy a couple. Or more.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:19:54 AM EST
[#32]
I have a solution for this mess.....buy a CAA Tactical Cheek Rest instead. That, along with a single point sling, is what I will be going for.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:14:26 PM EST
[#33]
Bwahaha, people had to just keep poking and poking and poking the ATF, daring them to write a new letter.
Well, to those people, you got what you wanted. That said, I'm going to take advantage of the panic selling. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:26:23 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm listing both of mine and keeping one. Am I bad at math? |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:37:48 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I bad at math? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm listing both of mine and keeping one. Am I bad at math? |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 4:34:57 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You reeeeally think that all of sudden, by some magic coincidence, everyone is wanting an SBX instead(which is ugl-ier as hell to some. but to each his own)...and it has nothing to do with this huge event? Wow. Whatever. Carry on then.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The prices of the original version are getting cheaper because they are ugly, heavier and bigger than the SBX. No one wants the SB15 any more because of the SBX. Once the SBX came out sales of the SB15 dropped and to sell them people have to lower the price. Weird. There have been a metric shit ton hit the EE in the last 24 hours, for cheap. Must all be replacing them with SBX's.  More likely getting out of the Sig brace thing all together. Nah.... You reeeeally think that all of sudden, by some magic coincidence, everyone is wanting an SBX instead(which is ugl-ier as hell to some. but to each his own)...and it has nothing to do with this huge event? Wow. Whatever. Carry on then.
Lol adjust your sarcasm detector. I put an emoticon up there to make it easy. Of course the letter is why everyone is dumping them. |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 6:48:17 PM EST
[#37]
This is like a soap opera for gun nuts - "As The Letter Turns, So Shall The Days Of Our Lives."
Mind if I pop some corn? 
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Posted: 1/18/2015 7:02:58 PM EST
[#38]
All, shooting AR pistol without SB15 is not a hard thing to do, if they ban it (we don't know for sure) we are out whatever we paid for unless ATF will buy them back from us or allow those that already owned them to keep ours before the ban date (likely story
 )....who knows  So if they ban it what are we supposed to do with them....since they are not legal to have and can't sell them.....???? I am not planning on going Form 1 route as that is totally unacceptable, I don't want to deal with anymore paper work if/when I need to bring my AR pistol out of my State....that's the reason I did not go with SBR route from the beginning  Will they make a fuss and still come after anyone that still have SB15 on but shoot their AR pistol pressing against their cheeks (not shouldering)????
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Posted: 1/18/2015 7:37:52 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All, shooting AR pistol without SB15 is not a hard thing to do, if they ban it (we don't know for sure) we are out whatever we paid for unless ATF will buy them back from us or allow those that already owned them to keep ours before the ban date (likely story )....who knows So if they ban it what are we supposed to do with them....since they are not legal to have and can't sell them.....???? I am not planning on going Form 1 route as that is totally unacceptable, I don't want to deal with anymore paper work if/when I need to bring my AR pistol out of my State....that's the reason I did not go with SBR route from the beginning
Will they make a fuss and still come after anyone that still have SB15 on but shoot their AR pistol pressing against their cheeks (not shouldering)???? You realize all this is moot unless ATF enforces it, right? - OS |
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Posted: 1/18/2015 9:19:33 PM EST
[#40]
I'm surprised at the prices these are selling for in the EE. I'd have thought they'd be worth $10 - $20 given a ton of new and used supply and a lack of demand. Seems they are selling for $70 - $80 or so.
Is it just that word hasn't gotten out to many gun owners and vendors given that the letter started making the rounds online Friday late afternoon? |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:13:31 AM EST
[#41]
In an earlier letter the ATF stated shouldering the brace did not make it an SBR? People had to keep poking the bear!
Does shooting a a pistol with the buffer tube alone against your shoulder make it an SBR? My brace is so tight on the spikes buffer tube, i think I would have to cut it off. I knew I should have saved my money and went with the form 1 in the first place. Stupid ATF |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:51:15 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stupid ATF I'd say it's more like stupid people writing letters. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 7:51:26 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... I knew I should have saved my money and went with the form 1 in the first place. Stupid ATF You built a SBR EXACTLY AS DEFINED IN THE NFA. Now your mad and blame anyone but yourself because your plan to skirt the law failed. Good logic there. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:36:04 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you even common core bro? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm listing both of mine and keeping one. Am I bad at math? he was going for the common core method, but the ATF ruled that if his "intent' was to get the correct answer by using CC, it would be declared illegal, so had to try it on the abacus to stay within the law... |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:37:26 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you planned all along to build a shoulder fired firearm and now you blame the ATF? You built a SBR EXACTLY AS DEFINED IN THE NFA. Now your mad and blame anyone but yourself because your plan to skirt the law failed. Good logic there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
... I knew I should have saved my money and went with the form 1 in the first place. Stupid ATF You built a SBR EXACTLY AS DEFINED IN THE NFA. Now your mad and blame anyone but yourself because your plan to skirt the law failed. Good logic there. No, he built a pistol. The brace IS NOT a stock. Therefore he did not build a SBR. It is not an "illegally manufactured" SBR, or "Redesigned" as an SBR until it is USED like a stock & the USE only occurs when it 1) is fired (actually used) like an SBR & 2) it can be proven you did & 3) the Courts hears the case & sides with the ATF & supports their "Ruling". Remember a shoestring was once "Ruled" a machine gun & having notches or serrations on an 80% lower constituted a "Firearm", all of which courts dismissed. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 12:02:25 AM EST
[#47]
I just checked eBay. Prices aren't as low as I was expecting. Probably still people who haven't heard.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 6:57:36 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, he built a pistol. The brace IS NOT a stock. Therefore he did not build a SBR. It is not an "illegally manufactured" SBR, or "Redesigned" as an SBR until it is USED like a stock & the USE only occurs when it 1) is fired (actually used) like an SBR & 2) it can be proven you did & 3) the Courts hears the case & sides with the ATF & supports their "Ruling". Remember a shoestring was once "Ruled" a machine gun & having notches or serrations on an 80% lower constituted a "Firearm", all of which courts dismissed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... I knew I should have saved my money and went with the form 1 in the first place. Stupid ATF You built a SBR EXACTLY AS DEFINED IN THE NFA. Now your mad and blame anyone but yourself because your plan to skirt the law failed. Good logic there. No, he built a pistol. The brace IS NOT a stock. Therefore he did not build a SBR. It is not an "illegally manufactured" SBR, or "Redesigned" as an SBR until it is USED like a stock & the USE only occurs when it 1) is fired (actually used) like an SBR & 2) it can be proven you did & 3) the Courts hears the case & sides with the ATF & supports their "Ruling". Remember a shoestring was once "Ruled" a machine gun & having notches or serrations on an 80% lower constituted a "Firearm", all of which courts dismissed. The definiton of the shoestring or the 80% is not and never was codified law. The definition of a rifle was enacted by Congress and codified , it is law and the ATF cannot change that with any kind of rule or determination. |
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Posted: 1/20/2015 8:16:27 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need to form 1 a pistol. His post shows clearly that he intended his build to be fired from the shoulder. He simply figured, as most that bought the brace, that he could save the tax by using the brace instead. He designed built and intended it to be fired from the shoulder, that is the very definition of a rifle. With a barrel under 16" or an AOL under 26" that is a SBR. The definiton of the shoestring or the 80% is not and never was codified law. The definition of a rifle was enacted by Congress and codified , it is law and the ATF cannot change that with any kind of rule or determination. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
... I knew I should have saved my money and went with the form 1 in the first place. Stupid ATF You built a SBR EXACTLY AS DEFINED IN THE NFA. Now your mad and blame anyone but yourself because your plan to skirt the law failed. Good logic there. No, he built a pistol. The brace IS NOT a stock. Therefore he did not build a SBR. It is not an "illegally manufactured" SBR, or "Redesigned" as an SBR until it is USED like a stock & the USE only occurs when it 1) is fired (actually used) like an SBR & 2) it can be proven you did & 3) the Courts hears the case & sides with the ATF & supports their "Ruling". Remember a shoestring was once "Ruled" a machine gun & having notches or serrations on an 80% lower constituted a "Firearm", all of which courts dismissed. The definiton of the shoestring or the 80% is not and never was codified law. The definition of a rifle was enacted by Congress and codified , it is law and the ATF cannot change that with any kind of rule or determination. And with one over 26"....it's not 
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Posted: 1/20/2015 7:53:23 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And with one over 26"....it's not Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... I knew I should have saved my money and went with the form 1 in the first place. Stupid ATF You built a SBR EXACTLY AS DEFINED IN THE NFA. Now your mad and blame anyone but yourself because your plan to skirt the law failed. Good logic there. No, he built a pistol. The brace IS NOT a stock. Therefore he did not build a SBR. It is not an "illegally manufactured" SBR, or "Redesigned" as an SBR until it is USED like a stock & the USE only occurs when it 1) is fired (actually used) like an SBR & 2) it can be proven you did & 3) the Courts hears the case & sides with the ATF & supports their "Ruling". Remember a shoestring was once "Ruled" a machine gun & having notches or serrations on an 80% lower constituted a "Firearm", all of which courts dismissed. The definiton of the shoestring or the 80% is not and never was codified law. The definition of a rifle was enacted by Congress and codified , it is law and the ATF cannot change that with any kind of rule or determination. And with one over 26"....it's not I think 90% the confusion in these forums, or in the NFA laws for that matter, could be eliminated with simple reading and comprehension. |
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