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Quoted: Wow, @Buffman. You're results were VERY different from mine! My results were ~ 200 FPS slower than yours!! That's more than a difference! What year were your lots from? Mine were all 2017 production (from the headstamp on the cartridge) I was unable to find a lot number on the 180 round box (or individual 30 round boxes), if there is one listed. I believe it may only be listed on the 900 round case itself. Something seems off as they are advertised at 3,060 velocity, and your results were way over that! No M855 I've ever seen chronies that fast, and those are 62 grain bullets loaded at near top end pressure. You got near M193 velocities!!! You plan to gel test them alongside the 62 grain 5.56 fmj Magtech and the 55 grain South African M193, right? From both a short and a long barrel? All the brass looks good. |
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Quoted: Wow, @Buffman. You're results were VERY different from mine! My results were ~ 200 FPS slower than yours!! That's more than a difference! What year were your lots from? Mine were all 2017 production (from the headstamp on the cartridge) I was unable to find a lot number on the 180 round box (or individual 30 round boxes), if there is one listed. I believe it may only be listed on the 900 round case itself. Something seems off as they are advertised at 3,060 velocity, and your results were way over that! No M855 I've ever seen chronies that fast, and those are 62 grain bullets loaded at near top end pressure. You got near M193 velocities!!! You plan to gel test them alongside the 62 grain 5.56 fmj Magtech and the 55 grain South African M193, right? From both a short and a long barrel? |
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Looking forward to the results, Buffman!!! Quoted: If I'm reading it right, Buffman was shooting from a 22" barrel while you were using 18" and 18.5" The stated velocity from the manufacturer is also 3,060 from a 20" barrel, which is in line with what I got but way under his results. Maybe it's a QC issue with the factory? |
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Buffman has posted this:
Model:USA3162W UPC: 20892223943 Origin: Sweden Lot: 170300 12-28 (this is imprinted on the smaller 30 rd box and shown on one of my pictures) Cartridge Overall Weight:190.4 Overall Length: 2.2285" Powder charge: 26.50gr Bullet Weight: 61.60 gr Bullet Length: 0.8325" Bullet Diameter: .224" Boxer Non Magnetic Sealed Primer and Bullet Crimped Primer |
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Ahhh, ok. I didn't notice the lot numbers before since they are lightly stamped vs. printed on the boxes. My lot number is: 170301 01-31
And no, the chronograph wouldn't be off nearly that much. Besides all of my other results match up pretty well with what he has tested, so it's fairly well corroborated. Keep in mind, the advertised velocity is 3,060 and those results are typically from a 20" or test barrel. |
| It could have been some weird fluke. I tested today and ran 5 rounds through each barrel before testing in gel, and velocity was approx 150-175 fps slower. it was about 10F cooler, and the only difference was the ammo was stored outside in the cold in my car all night vs sitting in my house for 24hrs before shooting. |
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Quoted:
It could have been some weird fluke. I tested today and ran 5 rounds through each barrel before testing in gel, and velocity was approx 150-175 fps slower. it was about 10F cooler, and the only difference was the ammo was stored outside in the cold in my car all night vs sitting in my house for 24hrs before shooting. |
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Quoted:
None of the FMj's performed out of the SBR barrels in terms of frag 55 Grain Bullet below impacted at 2,600 FPS.  Failed To Load Title |
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Quoted:
This round out of the 16" barrel as well as the Denel M193 out of the 16" barrel. This load did seem to fragment a little bit out of the 10.5" and offered 3 separate wound channels. I will try and work on the video for all of this. 
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Tag.
Also SG Ammo has this on sale $260/900 + ship. Googling the ammo lead me to this thread https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/900-round-case-556mm-62-grain-open-tip-hollow-point-winchester-ammo-usa3162w- |
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Boom Video. Sorry for the long delays. Winter time has me cut short on range time. If I don't get out at noon, I only have a few hours of useful light.
Anyways, this load performed very well. The velocity #s I recorded in the first part are higher than expected, but then as I mentioned .308 recorded on the same day was hitting acceptable numbers. Good penetration in gel throughout all barrel lengths. I mis-spoke a little in the video, there was some slight fragmentation in the 7.5", but it wasn't until the 10.5" and 16" that we saw full fragmentation. Not much I can do about the yellow clear blocks, as those things are expensive :D The rest of the video is using the Denel PMP M193, and Magtech 62gr FMJ out of the same 3 barrels. Again it seemed the 16" barrel gave us the best results :D  5.56x45mm, 62gr OTM, USA3162W, Winchester Made In Sweden |
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Awesome video. Thanks for taking the time to collect the data. More data and knowledge is always a good thing.
No SBRs allowed where I live so I never had interest on data for those. Going to pay more attention to this in the future. Now my quandary, how to finance the 140 cases of this stuff they have between their two stores. Sale price ends before New Years Day!
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Hi Buffman, great video and it really does tell a lot! We all really appreciate what you do, your videos are some of the most informative on youtube as to different ammo types! I am really interested to know how the Winchester OTM round does against intermediate barriers now. I was impressed with the performance of the South African M193! Even though it didn't frag at all from the SBRs, it had relatively short necks and good sized damage cavities from tumbling. Even at under 2,300 FPS from the 7.5" barrel it had a nice permanent wound cavity. The 16" barrel performance was stellar! It opened up very suddenly and kept a wide wound channel for a LONG distance!! Even the 10.5" barrel's performance, at a little over 2,600 fps, the wound profile looked similar to the 16", it just had a bit of a longer neck (as apposed to the almost no neck on the 16"), and a slightly smaller wound cavity. The Winchester OTM was also very impressive. Had a wider wound cavity than the South African, but it also had a longer neck. It too performed well from all barrel lengths and even fragmented at incredibly low velocity which even the M193 didn't do, which is great because it means velocity is not an issue for performance (great performance from a cheap round). I just wonder how it is against barriers or penetrating steel? The Magtech, by contrast, seemed to perform horribly! Almost no disruption at the higher velocities, it looked like it almost ice picked from the 16" barrel! Ironically, the Magtech's best performance came at ~ 2,200 FPS from the 7.5" barrel. It had a wound profile that looked like a 5.45, tumbling with two nice yaw cavities. It did have a bit of a longer neck though. Very interesting. If you test the Czech M193 tomorrow would you mind taking the South African M193 out again as a control? I can't help but keep wondering if the prior wound channels of the Magtech effected the performance of it, and I am curious to know if the performance is consistent on fresh gel without prior wound channels in it. The round didn't fragment from the short barrels, but other M193s fragment at as low as 2,500 FPS. I can't help but wonder if shooting into the prior wound channel played a part at all. Thanks!! |
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Took screenshots of some of the temporary stretch cavities of the rounds into the gel to give a comparison as to how they did in relation to one another.
Magtech 62gr fmj 2,211 fps (7.5" barrel) Note, this wound channel reminds me a lot of 5.45! Tumbled like 5.45 with no fragmentation. 
SA M193 2,271 fps (7.5" barrel) Similar to the Magtech but with a shorter neck and larger permanent wound cavity. Tumbled without any fragmentation. 
Magtech 62gr fmj 2,656 fps (10.5" barrel) Decent temporary wound cavity, but long neck and unimpressive permanent wound cavity. No fragmentation. 
SA M193 2,682 fps (10.5" barrel) Similar to Magtech 62 grain, but with shorter neck and larger permanent wound cavity. Most M193s will fragment at this velocity, where as the South African didn't. It still seemed to provide a good wound channel through early and consistent tumbling though! 
Winch 62gr OTM 2,594 fps (10.5" barrel) Impressive wound cavity (temp and permanent) and also fragmented! 
Winch 62gr OTM 2,989 fps (16" barrel) Again, impressive 
SA M193 3,093 fps (16" barrel) Most Impressive! That's incredible performance!!! Major fragmentation, HUGE permanent and temporary wound cavities, and almost no neck! 
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| I will try and grab a shot. the bad part is I didn't have any time to remelt the blocks, and I packed the car full with other junk, so I only have 2 with me today. 1 has been shot, but has some OK parts on it, and the other is a little better. Someone wanted me to grab the OTM out of the 20", and I will try to check this "Czech" as well to see if the bi-metal jacket makes any difference in performance. |
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Quoted:
I will try and grab a shot. the bad part is I didn't have any time to remelt the blocks, and I packed the car full with other junk, so I only have 2 with me today. 1 has been shot, but has some OK parts on it, and the other is a little better. Someone wanted me to grab the OTM out of the 20", and I will try to check this "Czech" as well to see if the bi-metal jacket makes any difference in performance. 20" contact gel results would just look like 16" but even better. We already know it performs well out of longer barrels, so please don't waste a gel block testing what we already know. Save the block and don't test the 20" OTM on it please! Test the denel M193 from the 10.5" on a fresh area of block and the Czech M193 from the 10.5"! ;) |
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There is still no point in testing a 20" barrel. Do you see me requesting a 20" shot with the M193? What do you hope to prove / discover? Something that performs so well from a 16" is obviously going to perform at least just as well, and most likely even a little bit better, with higher velocity from a longer barrel. Requesting to see what you already know is useless and a waste of time and of a block that could give real constructive insightful information on something who's performance is totally unknown, like the Czech round.
The Winchester OTM was an unknown before the gel testing, but we know it performs now so no need to test redundancy. |
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No one knows how the Winchester otm performs from a 20" because no one has done any gel test yet. This would be a first. Everyone knew that none of the 3 rounds Buffman tested were going to frag out of the 7.5" barrel but I don't recall anyone telling him not to waste gel on them. There is nothing wrong seeing what a rounds full potential is, and gel can take many multiple shots |
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And we don't know gel results from many rounds from 20" barrels since no one bothers to test those, that doesn't mean we don't know how a round performs. A round that performs at a lower velocity is going to perform as well or better from higher velocity. We can extrapolate from the 10.5" and 16" barrel results that the 20" results would be similar, just a little better. Do you think the slightly higher velocity is going to somehow give drastically different results?
SBR results are actually a lot more important because it tells you how a round performs at distance, which is what separates the best rounds from the rest. Almost any 5.56 round at high velocity is going to give decent gel results. The real question is how will a round perform at lower velocity, IE at distance. The 7.5" barrel results were the most important because of this, and a round doesn't need to fragment to be effective. It's the wound channel that counts. IE, the Russian 5.45 is designed to tumble and it creates great wound channels even at low velocities. This round didn't fragment, but tumbled and produce an impressive wound channel even at a low velocity. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUAFYW1eaDs[/youtube] M855 performs great from a 20" barrel, but it does not perform well with lower velocities. No one here considers M855 a good performer, even though it is stellar from a 20" barrel. The army went to a new round because the M855 didn't perform well at distance. |
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First, thanks Buffman and others who do this stuff; it's incredibly appreciated.
Quoted:SBR results are actually a lot more important because it tells you how a round performs at distance, which is what separates the best rounds from the rest. I realize the additional difficulty (or certainly re-zeroing a personal gun perhaps & trudging back & forth if no ATV). Again, not nit-picking; truly curious. Thank you. |
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Quoted:
First, thanks Buffman and others who do this stuff; it's incredibly appreciated. Don't mean to get into the middle of someone else's discussion about this but have a (for me) honest question. The value of short-bbl tests always seems to be correlated to what would a bullet from a 16-20" bbl do at distance. So I would ask, is the fact that a projectile hasn't really stabilized yet (from any barrel) for some distance - certainly it seems further than the distance at which the block is shot - so trivial an influence as to be discarded? In other words, has anyone routinely shot these things at 100-200yds into gel where the bullet would be expected to have stabilized fully AND the velocity would've dropped off to what the 'shortie' near-velocity is (which is taken as representing longer barrel at distance)? I realize the additional difficulty (or certainly re-zeroing a personal gun perhaps & trudging back & forth if no ATV). Again, not nit-picking; truly curious. Thank you. There was a test conducted and posted here from 2004, long before youtube, where someone actually shot gel blocks with M193 out of 16" barrels at distances of 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 yards to test for fragmentation. They were achieving fragmentation out to 150 yards. Obviously, gel tests at distance are one of the hardest and most time consuming to do, so the SBR gives a rough approximation. |
| I believe that phenomenon is called fleet yaw ? To test that you'd have to use 1 gun and download to the velocity that the SBR would be at normal 10-15' distance, shoot the gel, then take full power load, and move gel block out to SBR velocity (150 yards or whatever) and see if the round performs the same in gel. Things that would be hard to control would be angle of shot at far out yards unless you have a range where it's completely flat out to desired distance. |
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Thanks both of you for responding. I concede the challenges (on several levels) of doing the actual testing. What Blain mentioned is what I was thinking of, using the example of M193. Velocity has dropped off at that distance (presumably more stabilized bullet) but gets some fragmentation vs. what happens closer with the built-in starting velocity deficit from a much shorter barrel.
Again, appreciate the thoughts and the time & expense it takes you all to do this stuff. And a Happy New Year by the way. 
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Quoted:
I believe that phenomenon is called fleet yaw ? To test that you'd have to use 1 gun and download to the velocity that the SBR would be at normal 10-15' distance, shoot the gel, then take full power load, and move gel block out to SBR velocity (150 yards or whatever) and see if the round performs the same in gel. Things that would be hard to control would be angle of shot at far out yards unless you have a range where it's completely flat out to desired distance. 
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Quoted:
Great video. Thanks for all of the effort in getting this info for us. Any chance of slipping in some 20" gel shots? btw, this video doesn't show in the videos list on your channel. I have to use the direct link you posted to see it  5.56x45mm, 62gr OTM, USA3162W, Winchester, 20" Gel Shot |
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Quoted:
I borrowed my friends MDR. He was like "Hey I waited for this a long time, do you want to test it out". UMM Heck yes~! I will bring all 5 barrel length for the test, but will concentrate on the shorter ones for gel. I have a list going of what to test, so hopefully I can get it all done. I'm supposed to be testing this old ass 7.62x39mm 8M3 as well. Quoted:
Quoted:
@Buffman_LT1 DesertTech MDR... very nice. Be sure to post some photos of that as well.... and impressions. That rifle is on my short list. And how long did you have to wait ? I will bring all 5 barrel length for the test, but will concentrate on the shorter ones for gel. I have a list going of what to test, so hopefully I can get it all done. I'm supposed to be testing this old ass 7.62x39mm 8M3 as well. I have confidence it will trash the new but ineffective TULA and Red Army crash and burn 8M3 =FMJ performing phonies. Do GEL compare the true original to any - Thanks again & Take care Matt ! 
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