AR Sponsor
Posted: 4/25/2014 8:39:15 PM EDT
|
please talk me into a 14.5 barrel instead of a 16in.
thanks wissota4 |
|
My first AR is a 10.5" SBR. (If you're gonna get into the AR game, dive in head first, I always say...)
For my second AR I wanted something longer, non-NFA. I went with a 14.5 pinned lightweight middy with a 13.5 NSR and I love it. I have an Acog on it. It's a pretty sweet shooter. That said, because I was used to my the short length of my SBR, when I first built the 14.5, and I was "playing with it" in the house, I found myself hitting the muzzle on doorframes and furniture for a few days because I wasn't used to the extra length. 16" ERS are nice because you don't have to be nailed down to a muzzle device, if you ever wanted to change it out. But if you have a favorite muzzle device, and don't see yourself ever needing to change it out, 14.5 is the way to go. The 1.5" less makes the gun much more maneuverable, and you give up almost no velocity. |
|
Quoted:
Yes it is. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
only ounces though.. You'd be surprised though. It's noticeable. Yes it is. It's not even the ounces to me. As said, on paper, it doesn't seem like much, but there's just such a difference in handling. I've literally parted with every 5.56 AR I own over 14.5 inches. I have pretty much sworn them off for good as well. Though I will admit, one of the very first KAC Mod 2 rifles to hit the commercial market next month will be mine. That will be my only and last 16" 5.56 though. And I'm primarily buying that because it's the latest and greatest from KAC, and that's all the excuse you'd ever need. |
|
The best way to go 14.5 is an SBR. No PITA, no "now I can't change to a free float," none of that. There's an up-front hassle in doing the paperwork, paying the tax and waiting, but once you've done that, it's done. I currently have a very nice, very authentic M4 upper (DD barrel, KAC M4 rail, etc.) and you CAN feel the difference between a 14.5 and a 16. It's quite noticeable.
Of course some states don't allow SBRs. That IS a PITA. The poster above that said 14.5s were a PIA is from Illinois...where it isn't banned, but it truly is a pain. The second best way to go 14.5 is to decide, in detail, the way you want the upper to be configured in advance. Build the upper that way, with an appropriate muzzle device permanently attached the correct way (I'd go with someone like ADCO doing the muzzle device work). Be sure of the way you want the upper to look before you commit, or you'll be unhappy later. |
|
Of course some states don't allow SBRs. That IS a PITA. The poster above that said 14.5s were a PIA is from Illinois...where it isn't banned, but it truly is a pain.
I meant PITA. And yes it is a PITA either way... you pin m/d you are committed, if you don't you have to deal with the paperwork and wait time. Also, when pinning, the extended flash hider adds ~0.2". Call me crazy but this extra 1/5 of an inch is noticeable. |
|
Just be sure of the rail system you want to use or use a mil-spec nut and one of the various rail systems that work with it.
Honestly it's not as big of a PITA that people make it out to be. It's also not permanent. If you don't have the skills/tools you should be able to find a qualified welder that will do it cheap,in your area. A qualified machinist can easily remove the muzzle device, you should be able to find one in your area as well. It's also possible to remove it and still be able to reuse it. Do not use your local LGS unless you know that they know what they are doing. In the past I have found that I can easily explain the pin/weld concept to a qualified welder and machinist/toolmaker, rather than some LGS employee halfwit. There are also shops like ADCO that can do the work and it's really not a big deal to ship. You also can use a .750 OD muzzle device. Use one of the various muzzle devices on the market that are already drilled for pinning. If you choose to use a device that is not drilled, DO NOT buy something that is made of some super hard metal. I installed a PWS device on a friends stick and it was a motherfucker. Not sure what it was made of, but those suckers are tough. And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future. 
|
|
IT does handle better, and is the shortest length while not being a NFA item. It use a extended muzzle device which can add in hiding flash if using a flash suppressor, and is less the 100 fps/ ft. lbs difference from 16"-14.5" with military ball ammo. Many folks on here and other forums have harvested deer/hogs with a 14.5" in 5.56/.223 as well. 14.5" is also considered great jack of all trades length from 0-600 yards for a lot of people while using good ammo for distance shoots. Looks and cool factor come into play too, which we all like. |
|
Quoted:
And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future.
http://area7precision.us/images/GBLP01.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn11.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn10.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn2.jpg Not sure why you'd want to take your gas block off if you still couldn't get your barrel nut over your welded on muzzle thing. Threaded barrels are where it's at. |
|
There will always be reasons not to go NFA with every rifle.
I can put together a decent 14.7" middy for $600 or less right now: PSA CHF mid-length - $319 BCG - $80 Lower - $150 Rear sight - $50 This same rifle would be $200, or 33% more after tax stamp. Plus I have an illogical mental hangup that won't allow me to NFA a "budget" lower, so I'd probably spend another $200 on the lower at least. Takes it from a $600 gun to a $1,000 gun, for the exact same function and doesn't fit its role as a budget truck gun (or whatever you want to call it). Edit: I'm also not likely to want to put expensive rails or muzzle devices on a budget gun, the the fact that it comes pinned and welded is not really a downside (unless something highly unlikely breaks and needs replacing) |
|
If you're comparing a std 16" HBAR barrel to a 14.5" or 14.7" Lightweight barrel (with pinned FH) then the weight difference is more like 1¼ pounds! The shorter, lighter barrel makes a world of difference in balance and maneuverability. Muzzle report is a bit louder and I lost about 27fps in velocity, however, with Steve's target crown, it's actually more accurate than before, even out to 300yds. My RRA middy with std 16" HBAR barrel back when it was my only AR and it weighed a ton:  This is the std HBAR barrel under the handguard:  The same barrel after a trip to ADCO and Steve's great work to lighten the profile, shorten it to 14.7", and then pin on the FH to keep it legal at 16.1":  My RRA middy transformed into a lightweight version and now almost 3½ pounds lighter at just 6lbs 1oz:  |
|
Quoted:
Not sure why you'd want to take your gas block off if you still couldn't get your barrel nut over your welded on muzzle thing. Threaded barrels are where it's at. Quoted:
Quoted:
And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future.
http://area7precision.us/images/GBLP01.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn11.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn10.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn2.jpg Not sure why you'd want to take your gas block off if you still couldn't get your barrel nut over your welded on muzzle thing. Threaded barrels are where it's at. Huh??? Barrel nuts can go over a muzzle device. |
|
Quoted:
You'd be surprised though. It's noticeable. Quoted:
Quoted:
only ounces though.. You'd be surprised though. It's noticeable. OP, I have only (1) 16" barreled AR. It's a Recce clone and its my favorite AR. However, it's a little on the fat ass side. The rest are 14.7" and 14.5", permanently pinned/welded to 16.1" They handle very well and are all under 7lbs with 28 rounds in the magazine. It makes a hell of a difference when carrying it and certainly is easier for entry and exiting vehicles for sure. Its noticeably lighter than the Recce to the point I won't ever build another AR with a barrel over 14.7"... |
|
Quoted:
Just be sure of the rail system you want to use or use a mil-spec nut and one of the various rail systems that work with it. Honestly it's not as big of a PITA that people make it out to be. It's also not permanent. If you don't have the skills/tools you should be able to find a qualified welder that will do it cheap,in your area. A qualified machinist can easily remove the muzzle device, you should be able to find one in your area as well. It's also possible to remove it and still be able to reuse it. Do not use your local LGS unless you know that they know what they are doing. In the past I have found that I can easily explain the pin/weld concept to a qualified welder and machinist/toolmaker, rather than some LGS employee halfwit. There are also shops like ADCO that can do the work and it's really not a big deal to ship. You also can use a .750 OD muzzle device. Use one of the various muzzle devices on the market that are already drilled for pinning. If you choose to use a device that is not drilled, DO NOT buy something that is made of some super hard metal. I installed a PWS device on a friends stick and it was a motherfucker. Not sure what it was made of, but those suckers are tough. And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future.
http://area7precision.us/images/GBLP01.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn11.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn10.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn2.jpg Taper pinned on the top? That's not how that works. I dislike it. |
|
Quoted:
Taper pinned on the top? That's not how that works. I dislike it. Quoted:
Quoted:
Just be sure of the rail system you want to use or use a mil-spec nut and one of the various rail systems that work with it. Honestly it's not as big of a PITA that people make it out to be. It's also not permanent. If you don't have the skills/tools you should be able to find a qualified welder that will do it cheap,in your area. A qualified machinist can easily remove the muzzle device, you should be able to find one in your area as well. It's also possible to remove it and still be able to reuse it. Do not use your local LGS unless you know that they know what they are doing. In the past I have found that I can easily explain the pin/weld concept to a qualified welder and machinist/toolmaker, rather than some LGS employee halfwit. There are also shops like ADCO that can do the work and it's really not a big deal to ship. You also can use a .750 OD muzzle device. Use one of the various muzzle devices on the market that are already drilled for pinning. If you choose to use a device that is not drilled, DO NOT buy something that is made of some super hard metal. I installed a PWS device on a friends stick and it was a motherfucker. Not sure what it was made of, but those suckers are tough. And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future.
http://area7precision.us/images/GBLP01.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn11.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn10.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn2.jpg Taper pinned on the top? That's not how that works. I dislike it. I don't follow, please explain. |
|
Quoted:
I don't follow, please explain. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just be sure of the rail system you want to use or use a mil-spec nut and one of the various rail systems that work with it. Honestly it's not as big of a PITA that people make it out to be. It's also not permanent. If you don't have the skills/tools you should be able to find a qualified welder that will do it cheap,in your area. A qualified machinist can easily remove the muzzle device, you should be able to find one in your area as well. It's also possible to remove it and still be able to reuse it. Do not use your local LGS unless you know that they know what they are doing. In the past I have found that I can easily explain the pin/weld concept to a qualified welder and machinist/toolmaker, rather than some LGS employee halfwit. There are also shops like ADCO that can do the work and it's really not a big deal to ship. You also can use a .750 OD muzzle device. Use one of the various muzzle devices on the market that are already drilled for pinning. If you choose to use a device that is not drilled, DO NOT buy something that is made of some super hard metal. I installed a PWS device on a friends stick and it was a motherfucker. Not sure what it was made of, but those suckers are tough. And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future.
http://area7precision.us/images/GBLP01.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn11.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn10.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn2.jpg Taper pinned on the top? That's not how that works. I dislike it. I don't follow, please explain. Taper pins pull the gas-block against the barrel to seal the port/barrel. Only when they are on the underside is this working correctly. |
|
Handles better, is lighter, looks better. Honestly how often do you plan on removing your muzzle device?
I've owned a 16in upper for 5 years and don't think I've taken the A2 off since putting it together. I've thought about replacing it with another 14.5 pinned. |
|
Quoted:
Taper pins pull the gas-block against the barrel to seal the port/barrel. Only when they are on the underside is this working correctly. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just be sure of the rail system you want to use or use a mil-spec nut and one of the various rail systems that work with it. Honestly it's not as big of a PITA that people make it out to be. It's also not permanent. If you don't have the skills/tools you should be able to find a qualified welder that will do it cheap,in your area. A qualified machinist can easily remove the muzzle device, you should be able to find one in your area as well. It's also possible to remove it and still be able to reuse it. Do not use your local LGS unless you know that they know what they are doing. In the past I have found that I can easily explain the pin/weld concept to a qualified welder and machinist/toolmaker, rather than some LGS employee halfwit. There are also shops like ADCO that can do the work and it's really not a big deal to ship. You also can use a .750 OD muzzle device. Use one of the various muzzle devices on the market that are already drilled for pinning. If you choose to use a device that is not drilled, DO NOT buy something that is made of some super hard metal. I installed a PWS device on a friends stick and it was a motherfucker. Not sure what it was made of, but those suckers are tough. And then there is this, which will be available in the not so faraway future.
http://area7precision.us/images/GBLP01.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn11.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn10.jpg http://area7precision.us/images/kmn2.jpg Taper pinned on the top? That's not how that works. I dislike it. I don't follow, please explain. Taper pins pull the gas-block against the barrel to seal the port/barrel. Only when they are on the underside is this working correctly. Ummm... there is no taper pin on the top. 
|
|
This is just my opinion from my own experience.
I have both barrels, With the pinned extended hider on the 14" and the standard birdcage on the 16", side by side there is about 3/4" difference. With the limitations of a pinned hider for this little amount of difference, it is not worth the trouble to me. Changing of gas blocks, sights, multiple handguards, delta rings, and barrel nuts, and all made more complicated by a pinned hider. My 16" handles just fine for me, but I always go to my 20" A2 with fixed stock anyway. If I were going shorter than 16", it would have to be a 10" or 12" SBR, or pistol. Just my opinion with what works for me. Good luck on your choice. |
|
Quoted:
The best way to go 14.5 is an SBR. No PITA, no "now I can't change to a free float," none of that. There's an up-front hassle in doing the paperwork, paying the tax and waiting, but once you've done that, it's done. I currently have a very nice, very authentic M4 upper (DD barrel, KAC M4 rail, etc.) and you CAN feel the difference between a 14.5 and a 16. It's quite noticeable. Of course some states don't allow SBRs. That IS a PITA. The poster above that said 14.5s were a PIA is from Illinois...where it isn't banned, but it truly is a pain. The second best way to go 14.5 is to decide, in detail, the way you want the upper to be configured in advance. Build the upper that way, with an appropriate muzzle device permanently attached the correct way (I'd go with someone like ADCO doing the muzzle device work). Be sure of the way you want the upper to look before you commit, or you'll be unhappy later. The SBR route is the route I've taken and it wasn't by choice at first. I already had a few SBR's before I got into the 14.5 game and used those lowers to test out my 14.5 with the intention of pnning the muzzle device after I function tested at least 500 rounds. Well, 17K rounds later, I still haven't had it pinned yet and continue to run it as an SBR. I understand that there are those that do not want to wait for the NFA process and I didn't say hassle cause it's really not one IMO. My buddt is one of those types and he bought an upper with SF 3 prong FH but, ended up liking how soft mine shot with a brake so, he sent it off to get changed out, it only took a few days to get back but, the point is, you can still change things out even though you have a FH or whatever pinned on. It just costs a few more bucks to do so. |
|
Quoted:
The SBR route is the route I've taken and it wasn't by choice at first. I already had a few SBR's before I got into the 14.5 game and used those lowers to test out my 14.5 with the intention of pnning the muzzle device after I function tested at least 500 rounds. Well, 17K rounds later, I still haven't had it pinned yet and continue to run it as an SBR. I understand that there are those that do not want to wait for the NFA process and I didn't say hassle cause it's really not one IMO. My buddt is one of those types and he bought an upper with SF 3 prong FH but, ended up liking how soft mine shot with a brake so, he sent it off to get changed out, it only took a few days to get back but, the point is, you can still change things out even though you have a FH or whatever pinned on. It just costs a few more bucks to do so. Quoted:
Quoted:
The best way to go 14.5 is an SBR. No PITA, no "now I can't change to a free float," none of that. There's an up-front hassle in doing the paperwork, paying the tax and waiting, but once you've done that, it's done. I currently have a very nice, very authentic M4 upper (DD barrel, KAC M4 rail, etc.) and you CAN feel the difference between a 14.5 and a 16. It's quite noticeable. Of course some states don't allow SBRs. That IS a PITA. The poster above that said 14.5s were a PIA is from Illinois...where it isn't banned, but it truly is a pain. The second best way to go 14.5 is to decide, in detail, the way you want the upper to be configured in advance. Build the upper that way, with an appropriate muzzle device permanently attached the correct way (I'd go with someone like ADCO doing the muzzle device work). Be sure of the way you want the upper to look before you commit, or you'll be unhappy later. The SBR route is the route I've taken and it wasn't by choice at first. I already had a few SBR's before I got into the 14.5 game and used those lowers to test out my 14.5 with the intention of pnning the muzzle device after I function tested at least 500 rounds. Well, 17K rounds later, I still haven't had it pinned yet and continue to run it as an SBR. I understand that there are those that do not want to wait for the NFA process and I didn't say hassle cause it's really not one IMO. My buddt is one of those types and he bought an upper with SF 3 prong FH but, ended up liking how soft mine shot with a brake so, he sent it off to get changed out, it only took a few days to get back but, the point is, you can still change things out even though you have a FH or whatever pinned on. It just costs a few more bucks to do so. I went 10.5" first and got the LMT 14.5" upper later. Guess which one I shoot more... |
|
Quoted:
I went 10.5" first and got the LMT 14.5" upper later. Guess which one I shoot more... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The best way to go 14.5 is an SBR. No PITA, no "now I can't change to a free float," none of that. There's an up-front hassle in doing the paperwork, paying the tax and waiting, but once you've done that, it's done. I currently have a very nice, very authentic M4 upper (DD barrel, KAC M4 rail, etc.) and you CAN feel the difference between a 14.5 and a 16. It's quite noticeable. Of course some states don't allow SBRs. That IS a PITA. The poster above that said 14.5s were a PIA is from Illinois...where it isn't banned, but it truly is a pain. The second best way to go 14.5 is to decide, in detail, the way you want the upper to be configured in advance. Build the upper that way, with an appropriate muzzle device permanently attached the correct way (I'd go with someone like ADCO doing the muzzle device work). Be sure of the way you want the upper to look before you commit, or you'll be unhappy later. The SBR route is the route I've taken and it wasn't by choice at first. I already had a few SBR's before I got into the 14.5 game and used those lowers to test out my 14.5 with the intention of pnning the muzzle device after I function tested at least 500 rounds. Well, 17K rounds later, I still haven't had it pinned yet and continue to run it as an SBR. I understand that there are those that do not want to wait for the NFA process and I didn't say hassle cause it's really not one IMO. My buddt is one of those types and he bought an upper with SF 3 prong FH but, ended up liking how soft mine shot with a brake so, he sent it off to get changed out, it only took a few days to get back but, the point is, you can still change things out even though you have a FH or whatever pinned on. It just costs a few more bucks to do so. I went 10.5" first and got the LMT 14.5" upper later. Guess which one I shoot more... 10.5 was my first also and all I shot for a few years but, the last three years it has been 14.5's for me primarily. Guessing it's the same for you? My 14.5 middy's are the softest shooting AR's I've ever owned next to my SR15's. |
|
Quoted:
10.5 was my first also and all I shot for a few years but, the last three years it has been 14.5's for me primarily. Guessing it's the same for you? My 14.5 middy's are the softest shooting AR's I've ever owned next to my SR15's. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The best way to go 14.5 is an SBR. No PITA, no "now I can't change to a free float," none of that. There's an up-front hassle in doing the paperwork, paying the tax and waiting, but once you've done that, it's done. I currently have a very nice, very authentic M4 upper (DD barrel, KAC M4 rail, etc.) and you CAN feel the difference between a 14.5 and a 16. It's quite noticeable. Of course some states don't allow SBRs. That IS a PITA. The poster above that said 14.5s were a PIA is from Illinois...where it isn't banned, but it truly is a pain. The second best way to go 14.5 is to decide, in detail, the way you want the upper to be configured in advance. Build the upper that way, with an appropriate muzzle device permanently attached the correct way (I'd go with someone like ADCO doing the muzzle device work). Be sure of the way you want the upper to look before you commit, or you'll be unhappy later. The SBR route is the route I've taken and it wasn't by choice at first. I already had a few SBR's before I got into the 14.5 game and used those lowers to test out my 14.5 with the intention of pnning the muzzle device after I function tested at least 500 rounds. Well, 17K rounds later, I still haven't had it pinned yet and continue to run it as an SBR. I understand that there are those that do not want to wait for the NFA process and I didn't say hassle cause it's really not one IMO. My buddt is one of those types and he bought an upper with SF 3 prong FH but, ended up liking how soft mine shot with a brake so, he sent it off to get changed out, it only took a few days to get back but, the point is, you can still change things out even though you have a FH or whatever pinned on. It just costs a few more bucks to do so. I went 10.5" first and got the LMT 14.5" upper later. Guess which one I shoot more... 10.5 was my first also and all I shot for a few years but, the last three years it has been 14.5's for me primarily. Guessing it's the same for you? My 14.5 middy's are the softest shooting AR's I've ever owned next to my SR15's. I even replaced my 10" chopped SCAR barrel with a 14" factory barrel when they came available, not sure what it is but I enjoy the 14-14.5" barrelled guns more than my 10.5" and 11.5" uppers. I am planning on a mini can for my next suppressor purchase, shooting with a NT4 on the end of the longer barrels can get tiring. |
AR Sponsor