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Posted: 12/13/2007 5:45:25 AM EDT
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Well I just finished my 1st build: Carbine Stag Lower RRA stage 2 trigger Delton lpk CTR stock Magpul Trigger guard Delton 1/9 16" chrome lined barrel chrome bolt MI FF Handguard G27 grip I am very happy with it. Still need to break it in. BTW could I break it in with Black Hills Blue Box 55grn? or should I use M855 SS109 green tips? The reason for my second thoughts. Preparing for this build I put blinders on. All I researched was the 5.56. I never took the time into researching the 6.8spc. This is my ignorance and after reading about it more, I realize that the 6.8 is more of force when it comes to ballistics. Granted we all have different opinions about this but I think the 6.8 is a more logical and better concept. I guess I know what my future builds will be. My logic is, if you ever had a reason to us AR as a defense weapon, would you pick the 5.56 or the 6.8spc. From what I read so far the 6.8spc will be the future and there will be no need for the 5.56 is a self defense manner. Please share your thoughts. I am a newbie keep this in mind.  |
According to most military reviews, the 6.8spc is more what they want, think about it..its an easy conversion since you only need the mags, change in barrel and bolt assembly. I do agree with the ammo cost and availability butttttttt if it stays around I think it will take over. Its scary to think a 5.56 wont stop a man unless its a head shot. just my 2 cents
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That last sentence is a load, sorry. A great many people have been killed very thoroughly by single NON-head shots from 5.56 bullets. And they've all STAYED dead. The great thing about ARs is that you can always build yourself another one. :) I'm building an SPR right now and just yesterday I bought the barrel for it, and I didn't hesitate to choose 5.56. It's my third AR in 5.56. My NEXT one MIGHT be in 6.8. But then I've got to set up reloading support for ANOTHER caliber and have a rifle that takes different ammo...and none of that really is going to help me as for my purposes, 5.56 will do what I want it to. CJ |
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Quoted: "That last sentence is a load, sorry." "A great many people have been killed very thoroughly by single NON-head shots from 5.56 bullets. And they've all STAYED dead." this was another post here in AR15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHreIMu1d6M I know what I said was a little over the edge. about having to have head shots to stop a man. And just for the record i thought a .22 kills more people than any other ammo size so yes size may not be such a factor but if the military does not feel confident about the size and force of their ammo then that will lower moral and confidence. Our military does not want that in any shape. think about the fact that the ak is shooting back with 7.62, yes the 5.56 is more accurate and our military is more skilled but the 6.8spc is a force to be had. Like everything else the Gov. controls the production of everything. If they make a phone call and say " Start producing 6.8spc" then it will happen. My family has hardware business that deals to customers with govt contracts. I have heard how it works. CJ just playing devils advocate. BTW your member pic is of a great movie. Top 5 in my book. |
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For home defense .223/5.56 is an excellent round to stop an intruder. Somehow Hollywood has convinced us all that everyone hit with a bullet drops dead instantly. We know this isn't true, but even soldiers (former Army Medic here) seem to think this is the case. It isn't. If perfectly placed, a round may drop a person (or hunted animal) in place, but usually the leathal effects are revealed less than a minute. The danger is a mortally wounded but not incapacitated intruder may still do you harm. This may why many police are tought to hit center of mass and keep shooting. |
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I have nothing but faith in my shooting, it does not change the fact that short of a .50 bmg to the chest, I don't think any round is an instant killer. Last year my county had a shooting where one of our patrol units deployed his AR-15 and shot the suspect three times center mass. The suspect was fully incapacitated but survived, all the rounds magically missed any fatal areas (Heart, spinal cord, etc.). We use 55-62 grain Federal TRU rifle rounds. He's in prison for life for homicide now (suspect not the deputy). That does not remove any faith in the round on my part, I still trust the 5.56 for LEO work. The 6.8 is a nice round, it needs more market and military support before I make a purchase. I have three 5.56 AR's and my Bushy patrol rifle. Sounds like a nice build, how did your Stag lower match to your upper? Was it a nice clean fit in the magwell area? I ask because I put together a Stag lower last night (My first Stag) and the front of the magwell does nt match my Bushy or RRA upper very well. I plan on putting a CMMG upper on this one. |
| i look at it this way. if things got really tight, 5.56 will be everywhere compared to 6.8. also, short of a CNS shot, severe blood loss is required and that takes time. basically, most bullets require a couple shots to put down a target quickly, even the 6.8. And from what i hear, the 6.5gren is better than the 6.8 anyway. if we up the bore size, might as well go with the ballistically superior round. |
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If I had to choose only one AR15, it would be 5.56 for all the arguments above. If I wanted another one and had the money, I might consider 6.8. If I wanted an AR for deer hunting, 6.8 would be it. Personally, though, I wouldn't get an AR15 in any other chambering but 5.56 until the military switches. I'm not holding my breath. |
My point exactly. If it takes more than a second to drop your enemy they have a better chance. I do realize no matter the size of the ammo there is no guarantee. The input from everyone should help educate. I am not saying that my philosophy of the 5.56 and 6.8spc is law just trying to hear the voices of the some veteran shooters.  And to know what my future build will be..any thoughts about my ammo question at the top |
Too bad they didn't go with the .300 Whisper. It appears that it uses the same bolt and magazines as the 5.56, so only a barrel change is necessary. Plus, from what I have been reading, it is designed for subsonic ammo and supressed fire. They also make some supersonic ammo that is pretty hot too. I keep looking at both calibers myself, but just don't think I need the extra firepower right now. Maybe if I was a hunter (then again .223 is legal in MD to hunt with--although many think it isn't as humane as the bigger calibers). |
If you think that the 6.8 is a flash in the pan click the link bellow! More 6.8 info than you'll ever need! |
True!!!!!!! DemolitionDamon: thank you for the support, I realize 5.56 is power house. John575: I have considered that as an option but plan to build a lower designed for a either 18" 6.8 and 18" 5.56. that I can change when I go shooting Redduck: thanks for that info I plan to research that as an option thanks a lot bud. Slower: the magwell area looks good but not great. I am very happy with the build.
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+1 75/77 gr. ammo is should be plenty to drop a bad guy but then again I haven't shot anyone. |
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Army Brass wont let the 6.8 replace the 5.56. Why? Because Remington has never been able to manufacture it to the original specs. They claim 2600fps from a 16" barrel, and members here will tell you that they can get it with special super hot reloads. Fact of the matter is, it is a slow round, with a rainbow trajectory and only marginally better performance than the 5.56. It has terrible ammunition logistics problems. The 6.5 Grendel is a better round than the 6.8, but Bill wont let anybody make parts for it without a $2 Million insurance policy, which begs the question, what is wrong with the cartridge? Magazine reliability is a crapshoot, and once again hardly any manufacturers are loading the ammo in mass quantity. Lets talk about some other cartridges, .50 beowolf, its a big round great for killing something within 100 yards, but outside of that its wayyyy too slow and impractical. The AR-15 is a very modular weapon, this is not disputed. It can fire many cartridges well, BUT it fires the 5.56 BEST because that is what it was designed to shoot. Even the proven production 9mm colt carbines routinely break bolt catches. Since this has turned into a 5.56 Vs 6.8 argument. Consider the above facts, the DOD is trying to kill the 6.8. Until they fix the problems with the 6.5 or find a way to get the stated velocities in the 6.8x43 (SPC) then the good ol 5.56 is the only way to go for a fighting rifle. |
1. I think very few people are 100% happy with their first build. I think most people end up playing with a number of different setups before finding the right one for them. 2. For your first AR, 5.56mm was the right way to go IMO. A lot more options for barrels, magazines and ammo. You can always build a 6.8mm (or other caliber) later. 3. I myself am not willing to jump on the 6.8mm bandwagon yet. When it was first being developed it did sound like the perfect upgrade for the 5.56 but a lot of the promises did not become reality. At this point, I seriously doubt the military is going to be switching to any new calibers and if they did, I'm not convinced the 6.8mm would be the round they would select. Without the military backing, I don't see the 6.8mm becoming any more popular then it is today and very well may die off. |
Personally, Id love to see 6.5 Grendel in my AR, but its no where near cost efficient for me. But it's all about shot placement. A police academy firearms instructor i know always used to tell me "two to the chest, one to the head, keeps you alive and makes him dead"
Excellent question.....because its MD? |
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