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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:08:02 AM EDT
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I want a precision AR in 22 ARC. Intending to go 22 or 24" heavy stainless 1:7 twist barrel - fluted. The demand is high, and the waiting lists are going to be growing, so I want to order soon in hopes of getting it before the wait makes me just pick whatever barrel is available sooner. I am thinking of this project as my once in a lifetime precision AR, I want a barrel that can shoot well under 1/2 MOA with handloads. I know plenty of guys have had some very good projects with Faxon and Odin, and plenty of others with sub-$400 barrels, but I will be disappointed with 1/2 MOA for peak accuracy, so who makes barrels at this level? I don't want to spend $1k for the barrel alone, but this is for the most part a once in a lifetime rifle. I'll spend what is necessary within reason. I do not know any gunsmiths, at least none that do this level of work. I've also never considered a precision AR in the past, so I have no resources. Counting on ARFCOM to put me on the right path. I would appreciate more than just a name, and preferably more details than what somebody read on the internet or heard from a friend. |
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I would add White Oak to the list. However I believe last time I talked with them they were not chambering for 22 ARC. I believe that was why I went with a Saturn/Liberty Barrel. Been a couple months, that may have changed. I ordered a 20" Saturn/Liberty Button Rifled Barrel for my build. It looks like it will be a shooter. Bad weather has slowed down my evaluation. Blue Cold and Howling Wind the last week and a half. Warming back up and rain the next week. We did fire the Factory Hornady 75 ELD-M loads over a chronograph this morning at Hunts Long Range Gun Shop. Chronograph: Garman Xero C1 Temperature: 65 degrees (Inside Shop) Load: Hornady BLACK 75 gr ELD Match #81541 Advertised Velocity on Box 3075 fps (24" Test Barrel Velocity) Actual Average Velocity (3 Shot): 2949 fps DS: 4.8 We were 126 fps slower that the box velocity numbers. I just checked My Log Book Drop Chart. I did my Drop Chart Calculations with an Estimated Velocity of 2950 fps. I believe the velocity was down approximately 92 fps for the 20 Inch Barrel Length. I believe I dropped the other 34 fps for the AR15 being a hair slower than a bolt gun, plus figuring the Hornady velocity numbers might be a little optimistic. Looks like my velocity calculations were dead on. Good luck with your project. Bob R |
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I was considering an AR in 223 AI, but the 22 ARC is more capable. I want an AR platform without question. I need more velocity than the 5.56. I like the terminal effects of bullets that impact at very high velocities. A prairie dog town can offer shots as far as a person dares, I want to shoot further than I feel comfortable with a 5.56. Flatter trajectory reduces drop, and higher BC's of the heavier and specially designed bullets reduce wind drift, with very minimal recoil. All these factors increase the odds to make shots. .224 bullets are relatively inexpensive, meaning I can shoot more for less cost. .224 bullets have a very wide range of weights and characteristics, and along with the new Hornady bullets designed with this cartridge in mind, cover a very wide range of applications. Factory ammo is not my highest priority, but convenient, and is a source for brass as well. The 22 ARC barrels will use more precise chambers, contributing to accuracy. Pressures are not excessive, so barrel life is not a concern. Those are my reasons for choosing a 22 ARC. Precision Firearms is high on my list, but I wasn't aware of Craddock. I received an email response from White Oak Armament yesterday, and they are still not interested in producing 22 ARC barrels. Still open to further suggestions. Also looking for suggestions on receivers, bolts and carriers that may offer improved accuracy in an AR build. |
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I did some math a while back on 22 ARC ammunition. If you could buy factory Hornady 22 ARC Brass, which no one has so far. Adding the cost of the Brass, Premium Bullets, Powder, and Primers you are very close to the Cost of Factory Hornady Ammunition. My advice at this point, is to start with factory ammunition to get your brass. Sooner or later Starline will get 22 ARC Brass on the shelves. I would not wait until you have your gun built. Buy factory 62 ELD-VT or 75 ELD-Match ammunition when you locate it for sale, and get stocked up. When you get your gun up and running, you will have ammunition to start shooting. My plan at the moment is to get 100 rounds of factory ammunition. So far I have 60. That 100 pieces of brass will hold me until Starline, Sig, or Hornady gets brass on the shelves. If you plan to have an AR15 that consistently shoots under .50 MOA, you will need to spend some serious coin. Your build will need an exceptional Barrel. It might take more than one Barrel to get one that shoots to your satisfaction. Then you will need a Trigger that will run at 2.5 pounds or lower. A good scope base set up. I am using the Leupold MK AR 30mm Cantilever Base. Another option is a Cantilever Rail Mount Base with Standard Rings. Leupold has this version in the MK AR Series also. The Butt Stock needs a Flat area under the back for your rear Bag. I have several MagPul MOE Rifle Stocks, and I like them. HOWEVER the MagPul PRS GEN 3 Precision Adjustable Stock is a better option for a Precision Rifle Build. Glass is where the real money comes in. You will need Magnification and Glass that is Clear as a Bell. You need glass that you can put the crosshairs on a BB at 100 yards. Keep in mind an AR15 is not a real good example of a Precision Target Rifle. I have a few AR15's with High End Barrels that shoot very well for an AR15. I also have a custom 223 Rem, Bolt Action Rifle built to shoot 600 F Class that will smoke all of them. Another requirements is a shooter capable of shooting <.5 groups consistently on a perfect day. Keep in mind conditions have an impact on how small a group you can shoot. I planned to shoot today. We had Heavy Overcast "Bad Light", Fog, and Light Rain. I saved my ammunition and went shopping for more Powder and Bullets. That was a better investment of my time and ammunition. Hoping for a nice day this coming weekend. Bob R |
| From what I read all that is required is resizing 6.5 Grendel brass to 22 ARC. I currently only have Lapua, Hornady and PPU 6.5 Grendel brass. I could buy Starline brass and neck it down to 22 ARC and at least have a different head stamp until Starline starts selling 22 ARC brass. I have a good supply of .224 bullets, powder and primers suitable for 22 ARC. I think an 18”-20” 22 ARC would be a dandy target and varmint gun. |
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While I am new to building precision AR's, I am fairly familiar with the platform, so I am aware of the costs and difficulties associated with building a sub-1/2 MOA capable AR. One of my current setups is near DMR-accurate, but not quite what I would call precision or sniper accurate. I'm trying to find that next level of accuracy while increasing the downrange energy over a standard 5.56. In a precision build, the barrel is the primary component, my minimal research says I can build a complete upper with a Bartlein barrel for around $1500. I have a lower that was going to be used in a 223 AI build, but will now be dedicated to this project. It currently has the Luth-AR MBA-1 stock, but the cheek riser does not fit me correctly, so I am likely to change to the Magpul PRS once I complete this build. Hiperfire triggers are greatly under-appreciated. The upper tiers of Hiperfire triggers are exceptional, particularly if you prefer a single stage trigger. I haven't tried their 2 stage, but I am certain it's excellent as well. Fortunately, I live minutes from both Hiperfire and JP Rifles, and both offer precision triggers. I have used both. All of my projects currently have Hiperfire components. I intended to purchase a Bushnell XRS3 for the glass when I was contemplating a 223 AI build, and that scope is still at the top of my list. The Trijicon TenMile is another contender. I am not convinced that the Vortex Razor HD G3 or the Nightforce ATACR are worth the extra $1k+. The extra $1k would be better spent toward a thermal unit in the future IMO. Ammunition is another critical component to precision accuracy. I intend to purchase factory ammo initially, and then handload those cases after the initial firing. A 7 twist barrel will spin a 3500 fps bullet at 360,000 rpms, but there are many internet reports of the 53 grain V-Max staying intact and being accurate at that spin-rate and above from fast-twist 22-250 users. Those bullets have proven extremely accurate in my 16" 1:7 twist 5.56, and the BC is high for weight also, maybe not near the BC of the new 62 gr ELD-VT, but they should make up some of that with the substantial increase in MV - I estimate 3500 fps from a 24" barrel is possible, and that would be a stellar prairie dog round. And they're relatively inexpensive, so loading and shooting 1000 of them would be less painful than relying on factory ammo or the newer, more expensive projectiles. Though I fully intend to try them all. The 80 grain ELD-X should do well on larger game. The 88 grain ELD-M and 90 grain A-Tip should give shooters some serious long-range target accuracy. I expect to see plenty of guys shooting .224 bullets at 1000 yards. The 90 gr A-Tip has a claimed G1 BC of .585 - that's legit! I am sure more than a few of the guys with all the different 6.5 caliber rifles will be shocked by a competent shooter with a 26" bolt gun in 22 ARC at long ranges. Once dies are more available, 6.5 Grendel brass should be fairly easy to neck down if 22 ARC brass is hard to source. My guess is that demand will be very high for anything 22 ARC related, so I recommend stockpiling any components or parts you find. On the subject of the shooter, I know my limits, and I would say my expectations are not to consistently shoot sub-1/2 MOA, only to have a rifle capable of it  |
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A couple questions not covered so far. Exactly what do you plan to do with this build? Varmints, Targets, some of both? How Far Out do you plan to shoot? How are you planning to shoot? Sand Bags, Bipod, Adjustable Front Rest, Full Blown Benchrest Set Up with Joy Stick or a Tripod set up? Do you plan to shoot mostly from a Concrete Bench, Off the Ground, Wooden Bench, Portable Table, etc. Another Question Can you build it yourself? Do you have an Action Bar, and all the tools to put an AR together? Someone to check with for a Custom 22 ARC Complete Upper: Kenny Desert Precision Gun Works info @dpgunworks.com Check out his You Tube Channel on the 22 Grendel and 22 DPG ( The 22 DPG is a 6 ARC necked down to 22) Price will be around $1600 for an upper. You should be able to get a long barrel from him. The Long Barrel is a problem for some other sources of barrels. No, he will not use your provided parts for the build. I would have a problem with this, you may not. Case Forming for the 22 ARC. No problem finding articles on case forming for the 22 Grendel (Same Thing). Normally done with a Bushing Sizing Die and Four or more Progressively Smaller Bushings. Most sources recommend Annealing several times while necking them down. This can be done, and might not be a bad path to follow using Starline Brass. Bob R |
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Quoted: A couple questions not covered so far. Exactly what do you plan to do with this build? Varmints, Targets, some of both? How Far Out do you plan to shoot? How are you planning to shoot? Sand Bags, Bipod, Adjustable Front Rest, Full Blown Benchrest Set Up with Joy Stick or a Tripod set up? Do you plan to shoot mostly from a Concrete Bench, Off the Ground, Wooden Bench, Portable Table, etc. Another Question Can you build it yourself? Do you have an Action Bar, and all the tools to put an AR together? Bob R My reason for choosing the AR platform is that I want a do it all rifle. For dedicated long range target duty I would definitely go with a bolt gun. This one will hunt pdogs and yotes, and do a good deal of killing paper as well. I don't have access to a range over 200 yards, but I do have access to land that has a "backyard" 600 yard range. One of my main motivators is to kill prairie dogs that feel safe sitting out past 400 yards. That would more than double the available number of targets in most towns after the initial flurry of shots. A typical 223 AR can make hits occasionally, but the cost per dog gets high fast. It's possible to get two relatively accurate shots off before the first round impacts at these ranges. I shoot paper off a concrete bench with bags, various rests or bipod and bag combination. I will be adding a decent quality tripod to my accessories soon. I have a chronic injury that prevents me from shooting kneeling or prone, and I just plain suck at shooting offhand. Yes, I have the necessary tools and have many successful projects under my belt, though none of them were started with the intention of building a precision AR. I did acquire a receiver lapping bar and several levels of lapping compound prior to my last project, but I intend to purchase parts for this build that are high enough in quality that I wouldn't consider lapping necessary. It is very likely I will have the barrel builder do the assembly since they will be doing a headspaced bolt and test firing with the barrel purchase. That would exempt me from any blame if the accuracy should be less than expected. |
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What will you be using for a rest hunting? Bipod, Bags, Tall Tripod with a Clamping Head like the Coyote Hunters use a lot on You Tube? What will you be using for a rest at the Range? I pretty much exclusively shoot off a Harris Bipod with a Rear Sandbag with an AR15. Most of the better Barrels are fitted to a Bolt, either supplied by the Customer or the Barrel Maker. I have a Nickle Boron AR Stoner 6.5 Bolt that I provided, at Compass Lake at the moment for a 6.5 Grendel Barrel build. The rest can have an impact on the best forend for the application. Bob R |
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While I do enjoy these informational discussions, I prefer to keep personal information out of them. Let's just say my injury greatly limits all of my activities. Handloading and shooting from a bench are a few of the things I still enjoy doing. Hunting has become extremely difficult or even impossible, so starting a new project is as much about occupying my mind as it is about the end result. With that out of the way, my intention is to add a quality tripod to my accessories in hope that it will allow me to do some hunting - from standing as well as seated position. That would also allow me to change positions while shooting at the range as well, keeping me in good practice. I currently use a wide variety of rests at the range. I use an AR compatible "lead sled" style often, I have multiple front and rear bags as well as an adjustable front rest. I have every intention of incorporating quality parts including the handguard, as well as a builder-provided bolt that has been headspaced with the barrel they produce. I prefer not to influence the build with my parts choices. I intend for this to be a "legacy" project, so I want to do it with reasonably high quality parts. I will be intensely consulting every aspect of the build with whomever I choose to do the project to ensure that all parts will work in unison to enhance accuracy. Their input will be my utmost authority since I will have high expectations, and hold them accountable. Which brigs me back full circle. The reason for creating this post was simply to get references for a builder of precision AR platform barrels/rifles. I would imagine there are dozens out there that I have never heard of, so I wanted to be certain I did not overlook anyone prior to committing. After SHOT show there is typically a boost in demand for everything related, so I hoped to have an order in place before too long. Then the wait will be painfully difficult. |
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For me building a new project is a lot about the journey. I have built, and rebuilt all of my AR15's. My builds keep evolving as better parts become available. After the build the journey continues working up loads for it. While doing load development I am shooting groups, and working up Drop Charts for my Log Book. Yes I am Old and Still Use a Log Book instead of an App. My advice would be to determine what Barrel you think will meet your needs, and order it. Then do the rest of the build yourself. It sounds like you may have more AR15 Tools than I do. I have more AR Tools than anyone else I know personally. You have lots of things to consider on the 22 ARC build. I recommend Adjustable Gas. My build has a Seekins .750 Adjustable Gas Block. If doing this over I would take a hard look at an Adjustable Gas Key on the Bolt Carrier. This might be a must if you end up with a barrel with a .936 Gas Fixture. I just did a Christmas Present Tune Up on my brothers White Oak 204 Ruger AR. It had a .936 Gas Block with a 24" Barrel and Rifle Gas. It was over gassed bad with no adjustable Gas Fixture. I used a Rubber City Gas Key on his tune up. Hopefully we will get to shoot it this weekend and get the Gas Key adjusted. I am looking forward to seeing how well it performs. With that said if working with lots of different weight bullets is in your plans an Adjustable Gas Fixture may still be the best option for ease of adjustment. It looks like you have the Lower worked out. MagPul PRS Stock, and the Trigger you have located locally are the main things. The PRS looks to me to be very Rear Bag Friendly, and it is adjustable. The best and lightest weight trigger that will function 100% is the ticket. For me Stern Defense is just down the road, and I have three of their triggers, and I will probably be buying another shortly. I am not concerned about Boutique Lowers and Uppers. I have a Colt, and a Rock River, and one CMMG, and a few Andersons. For uppers I have a Colt, Rock River, an Aero, and a few Andersons. I am 100% happy with Anderson Uppers and Lowers. My Colt, Rock River and CMMG are all older projects. Everything I have put together lately, I have used Anderson. The Forend is important. I have several different ones. I have an Aero Atlas R1, a Geissele Mk IV 13.5, Several Stern Defense, and one undetermined that is perfectly fine. I am the most impressed with the Geissele in probably the 15" MK 8 version for your application. The Barrel Nut on the MK 8 is a cylinder 2.25 Inches Long. It has loads of contact surface on the Forend. It is the most solid forend set up that I have seen so far. The Cylinder Barrel Nut clears the Gas Tube, so no barrel shimming is required. My Geissele is the MK IV and has a 1913 rail section on the end. My Bipod Lives on the front with a Badger 1913 Rail Conversion for my Harris Bipod. With your plans of using multiple front rests having an M-Loc forend all the way to the front is probably a better plan. Another important consideration is the Scope Base. I have been changing over to Leupold MK AR 30mm Cantilever Bases with one exception. I am going with the Leupold MK AR Cantilever Rail on my 22LR AR. I keep switching optics on it. The Rail will let me go back and forth between 1" and 30mm tubes using conventional Scope Rings on it. From what I can tell you probably have a handle on most everything that I mentioned already. Looks like you have the Tools, Time, and Knowledge to build it yourself. Have Fun on your Journey. You might contact Saturn and see if they would spin up a barrel longer than 20 Inches. Bob R |
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Couldn't agree more. The journey is at least half the fun. My most accurate projects to this point have been based on the Adams Arms piston system from the beginning, not a conversion kit. They used to have their receivers made for them by Mega (made in-house now I believe but I haven't purchased recently), and their barrels were VooDoo. Extremely reliable and accurate as it turned out. I contacted them before anyone else about this project, and they are not interested in producing a 22 ARC at this time, and they will not be offering a piston rod any longer than rifle length. That was disappointing. No way to make a piston system 22 ARC without having the correct length rod, and I want a 24" barrel (very slight chance of 22") and I believe +2 or at the very least +1 length will be optimal for that. Rifle length would certainly function but not be ideal, so I guess it will be a DI build. I'm not committed yet, but the 15" Seekins SPR3 in M-Lok is my likely choice for a handguard. We'll see what the barrel builder recommends. |
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I just took an Adams Arms Rifle Length .750 Gas off my old 204 Ruger Build. It was one from when they first put the Piston Conversions out for sale. It might work rifle length. If any interest let me know, I do not plan to reuse it. I called Saturn today. I believe they will build a Cut Rifled 22 ARC with a long barrel. I was also checking on a 300 Ham'r Barrel. I thought that she would call me back today. Possibly next week. They would do a run of Liberty Button Rifled 22 ARC Barrel of longer length with an order of 10 units. I would guess around $350 of so. Bob R |
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Quoted: I just took an Adams Arms Rifle Length .750 Gas off my old 204 Ruger Build. It was one from when they first put the Piston Conversions out for sale. It might work rifle length. If any interest let me know, I do not plan to reuse it. I called Saturn today. I believe they will build a Cut Rifled 22 ARC with a long barrel. I was also checking on a 300 Ham'r Barrel. I thought that she would call me back today. Possibly next week. They would do a run of Liberty Button Rifled 22 ARC Barrel of longer length with an order of 10 units. I would guess around $350 of so. Bob R Thank you for checking on all of that for me Bob, very much appreciated. Adams Arms still offers the Rifle length rods as their longest, and I do currently have a spare. I approached them about Rifle +1 or Rifle +2 length which is what I would prefer for a 24" ARC barrel. While I am a fan of the AA piston system, DI systems are doing exceptionally well in competition, so I can put aside my bias. Thank you for offering. I know there are many excellent barrel manufacturers out there - Satern being one of them, but I am virtually certain I want a 24" Bartlien with cut 5R 1:7 rifling. I shoot exclusively suppressed in all but bolt guns and rimfire, and finding a protective case gets to be a challenge with longer barrels, so I may consider going to 22" to save a bit of length. Carrying the rifle is not a concern, since I can't hunt much, and I'll be shooting off a bench, rest or tripod almost 100% of the time, so the extra length and weight of a 24" should only be beneficial. And Bartlien makes barrels of known quality, so I doubt there is a chance I would be left with buyers remorse - just an empty wallet. Again, thank you for passing the information on to me. Look forward to seeing the results of your ammo tests. Hopefully you can get some shooting in this weekend. |
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The ability must be 100% present in the rifle for it to shoot better than 1/2 MOA consistently. The shooter's ability cannot overcome the shortcomings of an inaccurate rifle. The rifle however, can increase the capabilities of a mediocre shooter. The AR platform has it's own deficiencies that affect accuracy relative to a bolt action. As a shooter, I have more shortcomings than many others. So my intention is to build an AR that is precise enough to overcome most of my faults as well as those of a typical AR rifle when compared to a peer using a bolt gun. More simply stated, I want to outshoot my buddies The downside is I will no longer be able to blame the rifle. |
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You mentioned the Case Issues with a 24" Tube. What I do with my 24" White Oak AR for Range Transport. I have an Original, St Louis "Eagle Rifle Case" that converts to a Shooting Matt. I just measured it, I would say it is a 48" Long Case. It works for the 24" AR as well as most all of my bolt guns. I have had the Eagle Case for a long time. The OD Green Material still has a Red Cast to it from the Red Clay at the Badlands Range from a Law Enforcement Sniper Class in August of 2004. Steve Suttles a Vietnam USMC Sniper was our Instructor for the class. If you read a few books on Marine Snipers in Vietnam his name will come up. That class was the first time that I had Shot a Target at 1000 yards. I cannot believe that it has been almost Twenty Years Ago. Bob R |
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