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Posted: 1/8/2004 5:06:35 PM EDT
| Does anyone on the board have an Oly 223 WSSM upper? I have been toying with getting one but am concerned about barrel life. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Holy throat erosion, Batman! Splain yourself! [:D] Seriously. What's the poop on this? I have no solid proof, but look at: The amount of powder burned The velocity of the bullet Then, compare those to the 22-250 and 220 swift...both of which have a fairly limited barrel life due to throat erosion. You'll find that the 223 WSSM is faster and burns more powder (both are culprits) |
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Thanks for the information. Doesn't seem like a lot of people have them yet. I want the round for varmint hunting. I realize that I could buy a Winchester rifle for less than the Oly upper however I am an AR addict. In addition to concerns over a short barrel life, I am wondering if feeding problems are going to plague the AR platform in this cartridge. |
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The AR platform has a long history of feeding bottleneck cartridges. [:)] The only problems I have heard of were with straight walled and rimmed cartridges. Granted the shoulder is much bigger than on a .223 round, but I do not see this causing any problems. Hell, if they can get big ass cartridges like .50 Beowolf or the .458 SOCOMM to feed, a bottleneck cartridge that actually has a neck (unlike the .458 which has a neck like a line backer) like the .223 WSSM should be fine. |
| Brouhaha you are correct again, I have a friend that is a major prairie dog shooter and accuracy nut that was shooting a bolt Remington with a Shilen SS barrel. At about 450 rounds he started to notice some accuracy problems and at about 700 rounds the barrel was gone. He post on Go-Go varmit board and here sometimes I will see if I can get him to share some information with us here. After doing allot of research I have decided to go with the Tactical 20 that WSAR15 speaks about. We have a good thread started here [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=178046&w=myTopicPop[/url] about it. From everything I can find out about the Tactical 20 is has very good barrel life and is kick in the ass to shoot. |
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Quoted: Brouhaha you are correct again, I have a friend that is a major prairie dog shooter and accuracy nut that was shooting a bolt Remington with a Shilen SS barrel. At about 450 rounds he started to notice some accuracy problems and at about 700 rounds the barrel was gone. He post on Go-Go varmit board and here sometimes I will see if I can get him to share some information with us here. After doing allot of research I have decided to go with the Tactical 20 that WSAR15 speaks about. We have a good thread started here [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=178046&w=myTopicPop[/url] about it. From everything I can find out about the Tactical 20 is has very good barrel life and is kick in the ass to shoot. Sorry to hear that, but at least I know I'm not totally FOS! :) This is the first experience I've heard about the .223 WSSM. As an aside, I'm curious about the barrel life on the .243 WSSM. Should be better, and it would be an awesome long range deer cartridge. |
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Ugly rumor has it that even Winchester is rethinking the 223 ... as in, discontinue loading it. Several folks from the start were concerned with throat erosion and the post from Shooter505 may lend some validity to that. Consider this, the 223 WSSM has been showing up at the local stores, but we have yet to see any 243 WSSM here. And already Winchester is announcing none other than the [b]25 WSSM[/b] (Right here in my SHOT Show publication ....) Talking SHOT Show, holy batcave, we got a booth!! At the last minute .... M |
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brouhaha no one that I know has a 243 WSSM. There are several 243 Ackley Improved running around here. The 243AI gets better velocity and accuracy than the 243 and has good barrel life. But the best 6mm seems to be the 6mm Ackley Improved. Check out the ballistics of the 6mmAI for a long range deer gun. Quoted: Sorry to hear that, but at least I know I'm not totally FOS! :) This is the first experience I've heard about the .223 WSSM. As an aside, I'm curious about the barrel life on the .243 WSSM. Should be better, and it would be an awesome long range deer cartridge. |
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Quoted: From what the guys at the gun stores tell me they will not be making any more of the 243 wsm guns because of barrells overheating. just my .02 Not to bust your chops but I rarely believe what I hear in gun stores. I have heard almost as much BS in gun shops as I do at gun shows. Welcome aboard the board! [:)] I've decided to go for the .243 WSSM upper. Just have to shuffle some bucks around and get it done! Bob |
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For what it's worth (hint.. about 2 cents)... Without even getting into the whole WSSM debate (is there really any need for them?/are they really any good?), replacement barrels will become available if there is call for them. I believe that there will be. Just like all the varmint & benchrest shooters out there, if you shoot a barrel out, you just replace it. Not that big of a deal or expense. Just be aware of it's limitations. I have heard no first hand reports on feeding issues - if any - with these rounds but am curious to hear from someone who has one. Yes these loads are both hot. Probably too hot for the average shooter, because of the erosion problems. Just like the 20 tactical and the 204 Ruger and a bunch of others. Whether those latter two are sweet shooting rounds or not, 4300fps and a lot of powder WILL wear out a barrel. You can't really compare the .220 swift and .22-250 directly in terms of erosion. Though they both have limited barrel life, the swift far and away has shorter average life. I have read and believe the WSSM are more in line with the swift than the 250-but again... just be aware of what you are getting into. As much as I would like to have one or both of these in an AR, I would not mind an AR in .22-250. 55g loads at 36-3800fps. The .223WSSM shoots 64g loads at about the same - with a much higher occurance of throat erosion. Non reloaders have very readily available factory ammo for the .22-250, as well as the .17 Remington, .222 mag and a host of others. Will the WSSM's sustain that? That is a gamble. I do not know. If you want a long(er) range gun with more punch than the .223, but don't want the .308 (which are sweet by the way!), these are good, but not great alternatives, if only because of wear issues. There are makers of custom .243 & 6mm Rem guns out there already. Those rounds are readily available and a lot more powerful than the .223. Why not one of those? Or for you handloaders, the .22 Cheetah or .22-.243... these can send the heaviest .22 calibler bullets downrange at extremely high velocities. Personally... I will have a .458 SOCOM. I will have a .243wssm, or preferably a .257wssm, but I will hang with the .223's in my ARs if for no other reason, the cost of ammo. I tend... and this is just me... I tend to shoot a lot more than I do with a bolt action gun. A simple matter of what do I get for my money. My Colt HBar Match shoot .3" 100yard groups. That's good enough for me, because this is a hunting gun for me - I don't compete. There are trade offs for everything... in this case, the trade off for all that speed and energy is reduced barrel life. I say, big deal. It's not like you are buying a car... if you don't like it, you will always be able to sell it! You can get a match grade barrel for about 3 bills and a stainless match grade for about 4. Money well spent if you are an accuracy nut. Edited to add: There is a lot of good information about all the short mags at shortmags.org: http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/index.html |
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I like some of the WSSM cartridges only because they allow us to achieve different ballistics out of the AR15 platform. I intend to reload and hunt with it. So once my loads are developed it will be a low round count rifle. With a 200 yard zero, and a 95-grain Silvertip the trajectory variance is only 2.3" out to 250 yards. It might as well be a laser beam. [:D] But I sure as hell am not selling any of my .223 versions! [;)] Bob |
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Quoted: Markbo: I am interested in learning more about throat errosion. What makes a round be more aggresive at the throat than others? Where can I read up on this? Thanks Here is Fulton Armory's version on throat erosion. [url]http://www.fulton-armory.com/TEGauge.htm[/url] I did a google on "throat erosion", a more detailed search might find more. BOb |
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Both of those are good articles - thanks Ky-Bob. WSAR15, if you want to really learn more about it you could go to http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/index.html and read in the forums. Keep in mind though that whether through throat erosion or just wearing out a barrel (meaning loss of best accuracy, not destroying it), the result is the same.I will try to find something else as well. |
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Here are a couple of more links to check into this phenomenon. This one from AR15 barrels.com: http://www.ar15barrels.com/forming.shtml Here is another interesting series of question and answers by none other than Gale McMillan: http://www.yarchive.net/gun/barrel/wear.html And if you really want to get into it, just go to Benchrest central.com... these boys will tell you what's what! http://benchrest.com/ |
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All I knew I could get was a 24" bull barrel. At this point I can change my mind. Are there different options? I intend to shoot it a bit and possibly have it cut down to 22" or 20" and turn it down or flute it. I want a field rifle, not a bench shooter. What would you do? What will you be using yours for? Bob |
| I don't know which length, but not less than 20". I feel 22" - 24" is good and should enable most of the powder to burn properly - I'm guessing here. I prefer stainless barrels and not full bull- heavy is OK. Like you I'd want a standard rifle - probably a flat top with an Armalite fiberglass free float tube and and A2 front sight. I could add/remove a Harris bi-pod and it's not too heavy. I'd like a brake as well. I guess you bought from Oly? I'd be inetrested in knowing if their lower says "223 WSSM". |
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Ky-Bob, just a couple of thoughts... first congrats on ordering your upper. Did you go with the 223 or 243wssm? From what I understand when investigating the same issue previously, if you want a fluted barrel, you should have it done before it is rifled. If you want to actually carry this thing & hunt, I would recommend a fluted 22" tube since apparently only the full bull (and not just the heavy) barrel is available. If you were going to just drive out and park and shoot varmints, then a 24" full bull is no big deal, but if you are out humping it around all day, it can become a chore. This is presuming you are not NFL sized of course. I actually have a couple of buddies that are in the... ummm... let's say multiple X range - and they can carry a 14 pound rifle around. Not my idea of fun though. Check with Oly too if they offer different twists for whatever caliber you choose. It might well impact what weight bullets it will shoot best! |
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Hey Markbo, I ordered the .243 WSSM. I received an email from Curt at OLY and he said the early ones were 1/12" button cut. The current ones are 1/10" broach cut stainless steel Ultramatch barrels. [:)] I'm a lightweight so I will definitely have to do something about the weight. Bob |
| Current configuration is a 24" SS free-floated bull barrel. Both the .223WSSM and .243WSSM will have 1x10 twist for the time being; the .223WSSM is slated to go back to a 1x12 in a few months. Also planned for this year: .308 Olympic Magnum, .25WSSM, and 7mm Olympic Magnum. Check out [url]www.oa2.org[/url] for Olympic-related threads / info. |
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