I was fortunate enough to receive a box of swag from vltor which included another matching Mur-1a upper receiver to the one I recently used on my 300 blk sbr build. I'm keeping the sbr along with a 1911, Suppressors, mags etc in a pelican case. I have enough room to fit another upper in the case which was always my intentions.

My sbr is 9.5 so I wanted the other upper to be something with a longer barrel. Originally I had planned to use a 223 Wylde to get the best of both worlds with 223 and 556 ammo since I'm already doing 300. I specially was looking at the battle arms 223 Wylde barrels in 16". I figured since I have no real intent to shoot close range with it the 16" was better over the 14.5". Is there a huge difference between the two when talking extended range of the 223 and 556 round without going to 18-20? The muzzle device doesn't matter since I'm using it on my registered lower. So pinning and welding isn't an issue either.

Someone then mentioned the 25-45 sharps but I have zero intention of hunting so I have no need for a round made for small size hunting. That did get me looking into more rounds though and specially the 6.5 grendal. I understand I must get a barrel and matching bolt which it seems most quality manufactures I've found sell them as a combo. I know I also need new mags but someone mentioned you can fit them in magpul ar15 mags? Something about 5 rounds fitting at a time. I don't know if that is true as everything I read said new mags are needed.

Now I understand cost effectiveness automatically says the Wylde but I do reload so that negates round price for me. Yes it still cost a little more to make the larger round but it's still cheap enough for me as compared to buying boxed rounds. So taking that out of the factor what would be the major pros and cons of both the 223 Wylde and the 6.5 grendal. My ultimate intentions are to be able to reach out and touch someone with the upper. I did use a Geissele SD-E trigger specially for that reason. I do understand the 6.5 will shoot farther easier.

All opinions are welcome and wanted. Also any other round suggestions are also welcome. If anyone has other barrel suggestions for the 223 Wylde that's also welcome. I'm looking for something more on the accurate side but also understand I don't have a use for a proof barrel. So I'm being realistic. The battle arms seems more then enough barrel for me. So others comparable are welcome.

My last question is what are the major quality manufactures of 6.5 grendal barrels. I was looking at the jp. Are they considered the standard for the 6.5 overall? I noticed there aren't a lot of brands making them. I found a rainier arms ultra match but they are sold out. A couple on midway and brownells. Black hole etc. from most of the brands I found I felt jp would be the best money spent. Again I'm open to any and all other suggestions. I was looking at 18" in the 6.5. 20" is just a Little longer then I was looking to build on this platform. I planned to do a 308 size platform after this and figured I'd worry about longer barrels then.

Thanks in advance for any help. Here's a couple pics.

I have a bunch of .223 Wylde guns, and have used them for many years.

I have a bunch of 6.5 Grendels.

The only reason I use .223/5.56 for anything now is close range training for CQM.

For reaching out and hitting steel with authority, and cutting through the wind soup, the 6.5 Grendel makes long range almost boring really, and you actually hear the impact, unlike .223 Rem, which is very hard to spot your hits with at distance when there is wind.

As far as 6.5 Grendel barrels and bolts go, here are the go-to companies:

Alexander Arms, who did all the RDT&E over many years for the 6.5 Grendel
JP Enterprises
Precision Firearms

Lilja makes a great drop-in barrel as well.  Get bolts from AA.

Ammunition costs:  You have everything from cheap steel case Wolf to high end premium target and hunting ammo with 6.5 Grendel.  Brass-cased PPU 120gr HPBT is normally around $14/box, but I bought it last for $9.99/box.  I shoot a lot of Hornady AMAX and SST factory ammo, as well as AA 123gr Scenar, PF 120gr Scenar-L, 123gr SMK, 123gr Scenar, plus my hand loads.

You have 37 factory loads for 6.5 Grendel last I checked.  If you hand load, components are readily available, with brass from Lapua, Hornady, Norma, Nosler, and PPU.  

Here's some shooting I was doing last weekend with my 17.6" Lilja barreled 6.5 Grendel with my 123gr AMAX hand load in Lapua brass with CFE223.  This load was holding sub-MOA out to 1000yds for me, rapid fire.  At 100rds rapid fire, it just cuts a ragged hole in the target, waste of ammo.

I actually had read and watched your videos in your other thread. I appreciate all the info and help. How much flaring does the ejection port typically need on uppers or will most allow the 6.5 casing to eject without issues?

LRRPF52 covered it pretty well, his info is always good.

I don't know about using P-mags. I think I remember reading the post that said a few would work at a time. My only question is why? Grendel mags are not that expensive and having a couple that could be fully loaded if desired would seem to be more advantageous. Using P-mags and having iffy performance would be taking away from the platform.

My upper is a Seekins billet and has never had an issue with ejection.

The receivers and every other part remain the same.

Only different parts are:

* Barrel
* Bolt
* Magazine

Thanks. I planned to use round specific mags I was just curious is the magpul info was true or not.

Appreciate that. I understood the parts list but I had read that some uppers needed to have the ejection port flared do to hang ups on the grendal casings. I was curious to this factor.

I just took some measurements of ejection port opening diameters:

Aero Precision upper on my Lilja Grendel:  .494"

Square forge M4 upper on my 16" Grendel:  .494"

Seekins billet upper on my 22" Grendel:  .530"

DPMS LR/AP4 upper for reference (.308/.260 Rem large frame):  .555"

Grendel uses standard uppers, no need for ejection port enlargement.

.458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, and .17 HMR need larger ejection ports.

I just want to throw one more out there but i have been looking hard at the .277 Wolverine, they have not sent it out for SAAMI standardization yet, but it sounds like they are close, once they do i will be adding that to the stable. If you want extreme long range you can't go wrong with the 6.5 Grendel, the downside is you need a new barrel, bolt, and magazines, same goes for the 6.8SPC, but the .277 wolverine uses a  5.56mm case, and a 6.8mm bullet. Giving you a rifle that only needs a barrel change, uses the same bolt, same mags, as a .223/5.56mm AR15. It gives you 95-98% of what the 6.8SPC gives you, and way less proprietary parts.

http://www.maddogweapons.com/


But if you want a rifle that can out shoot a 308 and 1000yds then get the 6.5 Grendel, but if you plan to keep it under 500yds there are less complicated options IMO.

Thanks for the post. Good information to check out!

For sure sounds like a round for me to check out on the future but I think I'm leaning towards the 6.5 at this point. I do plan to build both the Wylde and 6.5 at some point. It's just a matter of what to start with on this new upper receiver. 6.5 is just calling my name

Use 300 BLK for your close range work.

Use 6.5 Grendel for standard rifle range distances and beyond.

If you have any public ranges local to you with steel targets at distance, people are going to look over at you and wonder what is going on when they hear and see the steel impacted like that from a tiny little AR15.

This was my thought in doing a 6.5 upper. Since I have the 300 for close-med range

Who makes reliable mags

From well known 6.8 junkie, go Grendel. LRRP stated all the reasons.

Alexander Arms.

 

E-Lander magazines from Alexander Arms cost more than ASC or CPD but worth the extra expense.

I've never had issues with my Cproducts or ASC mags, but did see one of the old CProducts 10rd mags that had one feed lip perpendicular to the magazine body, instead of angled upwards like it should be when looked at from the side.  I bent it into place, and it worked from then on, but those mags haven't been made in a long time.

I'm still testing the Elanders myself.  I'll have a more definitive opinion in about a year of regular use in my courses and shoot schedule.

Who has the best prices for the6.5 mags?

who's a good mag supplier? Haven't found any in stock

Alexander Arms

.44mag.com

Brownell's

Midway

Thanks. I noticed a few are out of stock. Alex are the way to go?

Never ordered from these folk before but they show stock.  I've had no problems with my ASC mags but I'm only 80 rounds into them.

gun mag warehouse

Please stop referring to the Wylde chamber as if it's some other cartridge. It's just one chamber design out of dozens for the 223 Remington / 5.56x45 cartridge.

Never mentioned it as a round. I mentioned it as the barrel choice I'm looking at that gives me the option to shoot 2 rounds from
One barrel. Please read before posting useless info. Thanks.

It's not useless info, and your post is an example of why.

There are not 2 different rounds to shoot from one barrel. The 223 Remington and the 5.56x45 are the same cartridge. The Wylde chamber doesn't give you any capability that isn't there with dozens of other chamber designs, and has some downsides.

I beg to differ. The .223 Remington is a distinctly different cartridge from 5.56x45, commonly referred to as the 5.56x45 mm NATO. Using those particular terms interchangeably is neither correct or advisable. There is no question that 5.56 NATO is loaded to higher pressures than .223 Remington, and should only be used in a weapon chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-rem-vs-556x45-mm-nato-is-it-safe/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-remington-vs-556-whats-in-a-name/

It is not a different cartridge. No one says a 9mm +P is a "distinctly different cartridge". No one says the 308 Winchester is a "distinctly different cartridge" than 7.62x51. No one obsesses over internet mythology about the minutia of chamber specifications for their 308 vs 7.62x51 rifles.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
What is "chambered specifically for 5.56 NATO? That would be any of the dozens of chambers other than the 223 SAAMI chamber, which isn't even an issue for AR15s as nobody uses the SAAMI chamber.

I'm continually baffled at how this whole 223/5.56 and the proto-messianic Wylde chamber line of thinking has taken over the AR15 world.

In any event, back to the OP's comparison of two proto-messianic cartridges.

Yet both .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO are separately packaged , labeled and sold as such. Plus P ammo is definitely sold with the distinction that it is to be fired in weapons rated for those pressures.  Ignoring the differences can have severe consequences.


It means exactly that. From the cited link:  "While the 5.56x45 mm chamber is slightly larger than the .223 Rem. chamber in just about every dimension, the primary difference is throat length, which can have a dramatic effect on pressure."


Oddly, the very first AR I built was chambered and stamped as 223 Remington. The barrel mgr specifically noted that 5.56 NATO was not recommended for use with it. 223 Remington SAAMI AR barrels are bought and sold every day, not to mention the plethora of .223 Remington bolt action rifles. Claims that "nobody uses the SAAMI chamber" are intellectually dishonest.


I'm pretty sure the Wylde chamber design was introduced as a compromise between .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO, in that the leade was longer than the SAAMI 223 Rem and shorter than 5.56 NATO. Proto-messianic? Interesting choice of words, but I've not personally heard anybody representing the Wylde as "God's gift" to the AR world.

We will have to agree to disagree, 762. I see the distinctions, whereas you apparently do not.

The Wylde chamber is not a compromise of anything. It's a chamber specifically designed for long range competition match shooters, to enable use of very long 80+gr OTM match bullets seated to long OALs for max velocity.

Years ago Bill Wylde himself even posted on the forums (either here or another one I read, I can't remember) with that explanation.

The Wylde has the same .224 diameter throat as the SAAMI design chamber, so potentially suffers some of the same potential adverse effects, namely, bullets sticking in the throat leading to difficult live round extraction and potential adverse effect on reliability. The pressure differences, which are discussed in hyperbolic yet hypothetical terms in the articles you linked, are much less pronounced to the point of near irrelevance as shown by actual testing in the article I linked.

There are better choices in chambers for a general purpose AR15 rifle than the Wylde. If you're shooting a DCM Service Match rifle, by all means enjoy your Wylde chamber.

I've seen 55gr FMJ stick in a forum member's .223 Wylde chamber.  Anything with a pointed ogive was fine, but the really tangent 55gr stuff jammed like crazy into the lands.

I told him to just stick with 69gr SMK and 77gr SMK.  It was an SPR profile barrel too. Shot very well.

It's no comparison to the 6.5 Grendel though, unless you single-load 90gr VLD Bergers.  

Impact on steel with the heavier 6.5mm pills is audible, even at 1000yds.

I rapid-fired 6 or 7 rounds onto the big steel gong at North Springs, thinking they would be in a pattern.  I guess I held well for the wind.

So again your posting useless information no one asked for.  The 223 and 5.56 are in fact different rounds last time I checked ANY ammo supply chain. My whole point in looking at the Wylde chamber was to have the ability to shoot 2 DIFFERENT rounds without it being designed mainly just for one. Meaning I don't want a standard 5.56 barrel that sure I can shoot 223 out of but it isn't optimized. The Wylde gives me the best of both worlds.
  In the end it doesn't matter much as this upper is going to be 6.5

It's very useful information, to correct misinformation/misconceptions.

If you post wrong information, don't be surprised if someone corrects you.

See avatar. All I can do, again, is say that is incorrect.

Good luck. Grendel or LBC? Which bolt spec are you using? I don't know enough of the details of all the intricacies of 6.5 Grendel/LBC specs to be helpful, other than there are significant variables. I'm going to unsubscribe. I find it sad that there is so much misinformation about something as simple as the 5.56x45 cartridge on this website of all places.

Why is ammo sold as 223 and 5.56 then if they are both the exact same round? Why don't they call it 223 +p using your logic? The reason is simple. They are 2 different rounds. So please face palm all you want.