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Posted: 4/13/2014 2:09:47 PM EDT
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I have installed several barrels on the 5.56 (AR15) platform, but never the 308 (AR10) platform. What do you use for a Vice Block? I couldn't find anything at Brownell's.
Would appreciate some advice. thank you |
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Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/AR-10-Receiver-Armorers-Gunsmith-Fixture/dp/B00DMUDCE6/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1397428848&sr=8-15&keywords=upper+receiver+vise+block
Works like a charm, have put together 6 uppers with it. |
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Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/AR-10-Receiver-Armorers-Gunsmith-Fixture/dp/B00DMUDCE6/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1397428848&sr=8-15&keywords=upper+receiver+vise+block Works like a charm, have put together 6 uppers with it. Thank you sir, Appreciate it |
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Thank you sir, Appreciate it Quoted:
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Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/AR-10-Receiver-Armorers-Gunsmith-Fixture/dp/B00DMUDCE6/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1397428848&sr=8-15&keywords=upper+receiver+vise+block Works like a charm, have put together 6 uppers with it. Thank you sir, Appreciate it You are very welcome, good luck on the build. |
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Well, sorry to contradict your extremely confident statement, and I'm no expert, but I'm not a big fan of clamping at the take down pin bosses only.
I have the first one from Amazon, I got it free when they sent me an AR-15 cleaning link by accident instead of an AR-10 lower receiver block. They made it right immediately by sending the lower receiver block and the upper receiver clamps in addition for free. They're good guys. I got to keep the cleaning link too. The plastixrevolution upper receiver clamp holds the sides of the receiver at a lot more points than 2, and it fit my Sig716 (nothing fits this gun), and my AR-10. I have an aluminum upper receiver block that will hold an AR-15 or an AR-10 depending on which side you pin the take down pin bosses, and I don't use it for anything but cleaning. I wouldn't try to mount a barrel or muzzle brake with it. Ultimate solution is Geissele AR-10 reaction rod, that's AR-10, not AR-15, but they're never in stock, been waiting months for notification. I'm not sure I'll spend the money now that I'm done fucking around with both my AR-10 and my Sig716. |
I use the JP Enterprises vise blocks. Love 'em. Magnetic so they stay on the bench vise without 87 hands. 
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Well, sorry to contradict your extremely confident statement, and I'm no expert, but I'm not a big fan of clamping at the take down pin bosses only. I have the first one from Amazon, I got it free when they sent me an AR-15 cleaning link by accident instead of an AR-10 lower receiver block. They made it right immediately by sending the lower receiver block and the upper receiver clamps in addition for free. They're good guys. I got to keep the cleaning link too. The plastixrevolution upper receiver clamp holds the sides of the receiver at a lot more points than 2, and it fit my Sig716 (nothing fits this gun), and my AR-10. I have an aluminum upper receiver block that will hold an AR-15 or an AR-10 depending on which side you pin the take down pin bosses, and I don't use it for anything but cleaning. I wouldn't try to mount a barrel or muzzle brake with it. Ultimate solution is Geissele AR-10 reaction rod, that's AR-10, not AR-15, but they're never in stock, been waiting months for notification. I'm not sure I'll spend the money now that I'm done fucking around with both my AR-10 and my Sig716. I agree sport, that's why DPMS models have the internal reinforcement while the PRI one without such reinforcement is listed for cleaning only. I also know firsthand that they're good for hundreds of installs. Some of the ones that hold differently aren't compatible with non-standard receivers. |
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I use the JP Enterprises vise blocks. Love 'em. Magnetic so they stay on the bench vise without 87 hands. What holds it in the block? Would be handy having one block for all my guns. |
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Thank you sir, Appreciate it Quoted:
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Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/AR-10-Receiver-Armorers-Gunsmith-Fixture/dp/B00DMUDCE6/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1397428848&sr=8-15&keywords=upper+receiver+vise+block Works like a charm, have put together 6 uppers with it. Thank you sir, Appreciate it |
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What holds it in the block? Would be handy having one block for all my guns. Quoted:
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I use the JP Enterprises vise blocks. Love 'em. Magnetic so they stay on the bench vise without 87 hands. What holds it in the block? Would be handy having one block for all my guns. Click the link. There's a picture and everything. |
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This is the WRONG answer for installing a barrel. |
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This is the WRONG answer for installing a barrel. How do you figure? Sure you aren't thinking of the ones without internal reinforcement? |
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How do you figure? Sure you aren't thinking of the ones without internal reinforcement? Quoted:
How do you figure? Sure you aren't thinking of the ones without internal reinforcement? semiautomatic is right - use one of those enough times and you will eventually crack an upper. I recommend using a barrel vise: 
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This is the WRONG answer for installing a barrel. I have seen posts like this countless times on here. And I'm not going to definitively agree or disagree with you. But I've never heard anything directly from upper manufacturers warning consumers to stay clear of the panther claw type devices. In fact, I called Mega Arms a few months ago when I was putting together my first .308 build, and they specifically recommended the .308 DPMS Panther claw for a home shop barrel installation with their Maten upper. Again, I won't profess to be an expert. But I feel like there is a lot of confusion out there amongst builders when it comes to vice blocks and barrel installation. Could there be better ways to install a barrel than using a panther claw? Yes. But is there a legit risk or common break factor when installing a barrel to correct torque specs using a claw type device? I'm not sure. I've personally never had any issues with my 10-20 barrel install/uninstall experiences. But maybe I'm just lucky. |
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There have been a few threads on here where people have broken their take down lugs using this method. The search function sucks, but the threads are out there. The search function works for paying members No one has mentioned the barrel extension tools available No stress on the upper reciever large or small |
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Again. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, but please point me to one manufacturer that specifically instructs consumers to avoid the DPMS panther claw type upper vice block for barrel installs.
Here is the product description exactly as it is written on BCM's website: The "Claw" is the perfect armorer tool for holding all AR Style upper receivers. Made of a solid one piece high strength polymer, the Claw is extremely durable. Simply clamp the Claw into a bench vise, slide the upper onto the Claw, secure with the two holding pins and begin installing your barrel and components. It's also sold at Rainier and other site sponsors with almost identical product descriptions. Notice it specifically references barrel installs, not just other components like rails. A) I would think DPMS would be opening themselves up to a boatload of customer service issues, refunds, repair settlements, etc. if the product was an upper deathtrap for barrel installs. B) Would a reputable company like BCM or Rainier be offering the product with the above description if it was such an installation no-no? |
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The search function works for paying members No one has mentioned the barrel extension tools available No stress on the upper reciever large or small Quoted:
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There have been a few threads on here where people have broken their take down lugs using this method. The search function sucks, but the threads are out there. The search function works for paying members No one has mentioned the barrel extension tools available No stress on the upper reciever large or small BROWNELLS - 308-AR Barrel Extension Torque Tools |
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There have been a few threads on here where people have broken their take down lugs using this method. The search function sucks, but the threads are out there. The search function works for paying members No one has mentioned the barrel extension tools available No stress on the upper reciever large or small BROWNELLS - 308-AR Barrel Extension Torque Tools That right there is the best tool for the job. I use them for both 308 and 556/small upper barrel work as they don't put any stress at all on the receiver. My upper blocks are now only used for all other assembly other than the barrel. |
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Again. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, but please point me to one manufacturer that specifically instructs consumers to avoid the DPMS panther claw type upper vice block for barrel installs. Here is the product description exactly as it is written on BCM's website: The "Claw" is the perfect armorer tool for holding all AR Style upper receivers. Made of a solid one piece high strength polymer, the Claw is extremely durable. Simply clamp the Claw into a bench vise, slide the upper onto the Claw, secure with the two holding pins and begin installing your barrel and components. It's also sold at Rainier and other site sponsors with almost identical product descriptions. Notice it specifically references barrel installs, not just other components like rails. A) I would think DPMS would be opening themselves up to a boatload of customer service issues, refunds, repair settlements, etc. if the product was an upper deathtrap for barrel installs. B) Would a reputable company like BCM or Rainier be offering the product with the above description if it was such an installation no-no? Some very well respected individuals and companies recommend the DPMS panther claw type for barrel installations, but there are folks on here that don't like them. To each his own I guess, but I agree with you that from most manufacturers point of view they are the correct tool and they certainly work fine for me. |
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There have been a few threads on here where people have broken their take down lugs using this method. The search function sucks, but the threads are out there. Quoted:
There have been a few threads on here where people have broken their take down lugs using this method. The search function sucks, but the threads are out there. All the ones I've seen in which people have sheared lugs have been due to mis-using a PRI (unsupported) block. Link? Quoted:
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There have been a few threads on here where people have broken their take down lugs using this method. The search function sucks, but the threads are out there. The search function works for paying members No one has mentioned the barrel extension tools available No stress on the upper reciever large or small BROWNELLS - 308-AR Barrel Extension Torque Tools That right there is the best tool for the job. I use them for both 308 and 556/small upper barrel work as they don't put any stress at all on the receiver. My upper blocks are now only used for all other assembly other than the barrel. I've heard about sheared index pins as a result of these. No dog in this fight, I just like tools that work. |
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You heard rumors of a index pin shearing off unless the barrel pin was made of something softer than what should be used.
Aluminum upper receiver VS hardened steel pin good luck aluminum. Much more stress on the pin and receiver when a block or clam shell is used and even with all the stress good luck shearing off a hardened pin, better chance of the pin messing up the aluminum receiver when a block is used. I build several hundred uppers a year, have used damn near every kind of receiver block, clam shell and jig made and even made some of my own and found the barrel extension tool is one of the best ways other than a barrel vise+ they work with all receivers. This is better than a plastic block that can flex but it still only gets used for upper assembly, not barrel assembly 
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Again. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, but please point me to one manufacturer that specifically instructs consumers to avoid the DPMS panther claw type upper vice block for barrel installs. Here is the product description exactly as it is written on BCM's website: The "Claw" is the perfect armorer tool for holding all AR Style upper receivers. Made of a solid one piece high strength polymer, the Claw is extremely durable. Simply clamp the Claw into a bench vise, slide the upper onto the Claw, secure with the two holding pins and begin installing your barrel and components. It's also sold at Rainier and other site sponsors with almost identical product descriptions. Notice it specifically references barrel installs, not just other components like rails. A) I would think DPMS would be opening themselves up to a boatload of customer service issues, refunds, repair settlements, etc. if the product was an upper deathtrap for barrel installs. B) Would a reputable company like BCM or Rainier be offering the product with the above description if it was such an installation no-no? Most of them will also tell you that a qualified gunsmith should be installing the barrel with these tools and if you damage something using them doing work you are unqualified to do then you loose. Have you ever heard of operator error ? If you use grease, don't over torque, use the correct tools ect ect chances are installing the barrel with a block or clam shell will work fine. BUT one small mistake and damage is done. |
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How is that possible?? I didn't think there was any twisting force transferred to the barrel. Quoted:
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I've heard about sheared index pins as a result of these. No dog in this fight, I just like tools that work. How is that possible?? I didn't think there was any twisting force transferred to the barrel. Imagine the barrel fixed in space. When tightening the barrel nut, that pin is what keeps the receiver from spinning. Talked to engineer friend, said "grease is the key". |
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Imagine the barrel fixed in space. When tightening the barrel nut, that pin is what keeps the receiver from spinning. Talked to engineer friend, said "grease is the key". Quoted:
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I've heard about sheared index pins as a result of these. No dog in this fight, I just like tools that work. How is that possible?? I didn't think there was any twisting force transferred to the barrel. Imagine the barrel fixed in space. When tightening the barrel nut, that pin is what keeps the receiver from spinning. Talked to engineer friend, said "grease is the key". He needs to go back to school, good luck shearing off that hard pin with a aluminum receiver |
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He needs to go back to school, good luck shearing off that hard pin with a aluminum receiver Except in instances where it's not so hard (or too hard/brittle). I've seen it happen with other action blocks before. It's not common, but you'd be wrong if you think it's not possible. ETA: Seems I'm not the only one either: https://www.google.com/search?q=shear+barrel+index+pin&oq=shear+barrel+index+pin&aqs=chrome..69i57.5404j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 |
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Seen it happen. Not often, but brittle pins or very soft ones I've seen deformed on install. The aluminum is basically supported by the barrel nut, increasing the effective load it can place on the pin.
Use of sub-standard parts is more often the cause. Correct parts will damage the upper 100% of the time before the pin goes. Friction between the barrel nut and extension, and the threads of the nut and upper, will result in an applied force/torque among parts regardless of tools/reaction rod. Lube would reduce this to insignificant levels. Again, witnessed in practice, and again, use of sub-standard parts was the root problem. Lesson: don't use bad parts and it's not an issue to begin with. Over-torque it, and all bets are off. It's easier to apply too much torque when grease is applied. My own rule of thumb: go to lower end of specifications if using grease, higher end if not. If parts break, then they were already trouble. |
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Except in instances where it's not so hard (or too hard/brittle). I've seen it happen with other action blocks before. It's not common, but you'd be wrong if you think it's not possible. ETA: Seems I'm not the only one either: https://www.google.com/search?q=shear+barrel+index+pin&oq=shear+barrel+index+pin&aqs=chrome..69i57.5404j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 Quoted:
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He needs to go back to school, good luck shearing off that hard pin with a aluminum receiver Except in instances where it's not so hard (or too hard/brittle). I've seen it happen with other action blocks before. It's not common, but you'd be wrong if you think it's not possible. ETA: Seems I'm not the only one either: https://www.google.com/search?q=shear+barrel+index+pin&oq=shear+barrel+index+pin&aqs=chrome..69i57.5404j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 Yup, often times the pin will shear when installing or removing flash hiders and comps, even after the barrel is torqued in place. This is why many places use jigs or 'sacrificial' uppers to install muzzle devices before putting them in their final home. But, have also seen it happen with just torquing the barrel nut. |
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semiautomatic is right - use one of those enough times and you will eventually crack an upper. I recommend using a barrel vise: http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/226/226100.jpg Quoted:
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How do you figure? Sure you aren't thinking of the ones without internal reinforcement? semiautomatic is right - use one of those enough times and you will eventually crack an upper. I recommend using a barrel vise: http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/226/226100.jpg The panther "claw" is used in production at our factory. We have installed literally thousands of barrels per year using this tool. We have yet to crack a receiver or damage other parts involved. |
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I do not use a clamp block anymore. Especially when working with unknown uppers. I use a reac rod.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/wrenches/ar-15-ar-style-308-barrel-extension-wrench-prod12729.aspx I ground the shoulder off of this and installed it in 3/8" socket to allow me to reach into an upper. Works good. I had to use a cheater bar to get a barrel out once and there was 0 issues. Knights armament and geiselle make versions of this too.. |
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The panther "claw" is used in production at our factory. We have installed literally thousands of barrels per year using this tool. We have yet to crack a receiver or damage other parts involved. Quoted:
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How do you figure? Sure you aren't thinking of the ones without internal reinforcement? semiautomatic is right - use one of those enough times and you will eventually crack an upper. I recommend using a barrel vise: http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/226/226100.jpg The panther "claw" is used in production at our factory. We have installed literally thousands of barrels per year using this tool. We have yet to crack a receiver or damage other parts involved. How can you argue in the face of his exquisitely designed wooden block contraption? Don't you know good engineering when you see it? |
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