AR Sponsor
Posted: 4/5/2012 10:08:45 AM EDT
|
Went to the range today to see how my handloads functioned and to run them over my Oehler Model 35 chrono.
Used Hodgdon's data, starting with 34 gr of Benchmark behind a 155 gr Hornady A-MAX, increasing in 0.6 gr increments, stopping at 36.4 gr. Hodgdon lists the max as 37.0 gr with a 150 gr Nosler BT. Usually, the numbers I get from handloads are slower than the manuals. In this case, the reverse and I was very surprised, but pleasantly surprised. I only loaded two rounds at each powder charge because I didn't want to have to disassemble a bunch of ammo if what I tried didn't work for some reason. Velocities on the two heaviest powder charges were within 20fps of each other and averaged 2643 fps! My son has a high end AR-10 in .308 and he only gets 2530 fps with Federal's Gold Medal Match 168 gr over my chrono. Pretty impressive little rocket. Next time, I'll try them for accuracy, couldn't really do it at the facility I used and chronograph at the same time. Emailed Ron Reiber, a ballistic guru at Hodgdon, who said the 36.4 gr charge was fine. Just the same, I think I'll back it down to 36.0 gr for longevity. Don 
|
|
That is impressive. When the .30 RAR came out, I was teetering on the fence on what to think about it. Part of me said, "Meh...what's the point?" Another part of me said, "This could get interesting, depending on how real world velocities play out."
The AR10-size bolt lugs will take higher pressures than a .223 bolt opened up, that is for certain, all alloys and heat-treating being equal. The main advantage I see in this is a lightweight hunting AR with big bore performance of the .308. Since most medium game hunters don't need a 20rd magazine, the .30 RAR will make a lot of sense for those wanting to shoot .30 cal hunting pills in the 150gr weight class, without the penalties of the .308 Winchester AR10 action. It will be really fun necked down to 7mm and 6.5mm as well. Looks like you could try the following powders as well: H322 IMR 8208 XBR IMR 3031 AA2015 AA2230 RL11 N120 N130 Accurate Powders has an extensive load list for .30 RAR Accurate Powder Load Data 30 Remington AR |
|
DPMS does sell 10 rd mags for it. I ordered two of them, one was to me clearly defective. Returned both for an exchange for the 4 rounders. Took fingers of steel to put more than 7 rds into the factory single stack mag. Not worth the aggravation to me.
I don't obsess about SHTF or whatever and if that unlikely event happens, I have a Mini 30 with a reliable 20 rd mag. Don |
|
Quoted:
Went to the range today to see how my handloads functioned and to run them over my Oehler Model 35 chrono. Used Hodgdon's data, starting with 34 gr of Benchmark behind a 155 gr Hornady A-MAX, increasing in 0.6 gr increments, stopping at 36.4 gr. Hodgdon lists the max as 37.0 gr with a 150 gr Nosler BT. Usually, the numbers I get from handloads are slower than the manuals. In this case, the reverse and I was very surprised, but pleasantly surprised. I only loaded two rounds at each powder charge because I didn't want to have to disassemble a bunch of ammo if what I tried didn't work for some reason. Velocities on the two heaviest powder charges were within 20fps of each other and averaged 2643 fps! My son has a high end AR-10 in .308 and he only gets 2530 fps with Federal's Gold Medal Match 168 gr over my chrono. Pretty impressive little rocket. Next time, I'll try them for accuracy, couldn't really do it at the facility I used and chronograph at the same time. Emailed Ron Reiber, a ballistic guru at Hodgdon, who said the 36.4 gr charge was fine. Just the same, I think I'll back it down to 36.0 gr for longevity. Don What length barrel are you using? Have you tried 4198, the 30BR works well with 4198 and 118-125gr but not sure about the RAR and 150gr bullets. |
|
[/quote]
What length barrel are you using? Have you tried 4198, the 30BR works well with 4198 and 118-125gr but not sure about the RAR and 150gr bullets. [/quote] My Remington is bone stock, has a 22" fluted barrel, not that the flutes have anything at all to do with velocity. 4198 seems better suited for the lighter slugs. Hodgdon also likes the 8208XBR. Accurate Arms also has some good powders to choose from. Don |
|
Quoted:
Wow, 110 TTSX at just under 2800 FPS. That will probably kill hogs  
Would love to see this necked down to 6.5, 277 or even 7 mm. 3,000 with corrected chamber, different twist, 20" barrel.... 7mm, .35, and .375 done...chamber progressions in process.....finishing up on a couple "larger" projects, then back on the 7 and .30.... ETA: the .277 has already been done..... |
Here's a drop/drift chart for that 130gr Barnes TSX load at about 1700ft ASL altitude.
........Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift |
| I've been doing a lot of research on this round and being a Whitetail Deer hunter where 300 yds would be a max shot, I am considering buying this caliber. ONLY if Remington offers brass though. I reload and need the components before I buy the 30 RAR. Hey Remington are you listening? |
|
Quoted:
I've been doing a lot of research on this round and being a Whitetail Deer hunter where 300 yds would be a max shot, I am considering buying this caliber. ONLY if Remington offers brass though. I reload and need the components before I buy the 30 RAR. Hey Remington are you listening? Remington says brass is coming this fall. I'd like to think that's the case, who knows? In any event, you can get factory ammo for about $19/bx for feedstock which is what I'm doing until brass hopefully arrives. Don |
|
Quoted:
My Remington is bone stock, has a 22" fluted barrel, not that the flutes have anything at all to do with velocity. 4198 seems better suited for the lighter slugs. Hodgdon also likes the 8208XBR. Accurate Arms also has some good powders to choose from. Don Don, I too have the R-15 in 30 RAR. I absolutely love it! What a fantastic cartridge. I picked mine up for $799 back in September and have a couple hundred rounds through it. I've been buying the FMJs and shooting those just for fun range time and then reloading the brass for my hunting/range needs. I originally bought it as a present/consolation for having to move to backwoods Georgia. I had a chance to deer hunt with mine in Colorado before moving. Got a nice size 3x2 Muley on the last day of season. 107yards and it dropped like a wet rag using a Speer 130gr HotCor bullet. It was a double lung shot and I couldn't find a solid piece of lung tissue when cleaning it. Turned the lungs to goo. No meat loss... just entry and exit wounds through the rib cages. I have shot a lot of different bullets through it and they all shoot at or below MOA at 100yds. I am thoroughly impressed with this rifle. It has now replaced my old Winchester 30-30 as my favorite deer rifle and those are some big shoes to fill. Cheers! Hey, first post! New guy. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My Remington is bone stock, has a 22" fluted barrel, not that the flutes have anything at all to do with velocity. 4198 seems better suited for the lighter slugs. Hodgdon also likes the 8208XBR. Accurate Arms also has some good powders to choose from. Don Don, I too have the R-15 in 30 RAR. I absolutely love it! What a fantastic cartridge. I picked mine up for $799 back in September and have a couple hundred rounds through it. I've been buying the FMJs and shooting those just for fun range time and then reloading the brass for my hunting/range needs. I originally bought it as a present/consolation for having to move to backwoods Georgia. I had a chance to deer hunt with mine in Colorado before moving. Got a nice size 3x2 Muley on the last day of season. 107yards and it dropped like a wet rag using a Speer 130gr HotCor bullet. It was a double lung shot and I couldn't find a solid piece of lung tissue when cleaning it. Turned the lungs to goo. No meat loss... just entry and exit wounds through the rib cages. I have shot a lot of different bullets through it and they all shoot at or below MOA at 100yds. I am thoroughly impressed with this rifle. It has now replaced my old Winchester 30-30 as my favorite deer rifle and those are some big shoes to fill. Cheers! Hey, first post! New guy. Welcome. Nice first post for sure. I try to stay in the Variants and Retro sections, where people are generally couteous, and guys and gals are experimenting with new ideas, wildcats, and innovative builds. I would also be interested in the pics from the CO mule deer shoot. |
|
If these numbers are accurate and I have no reason to think they are fasle. Remington has screwed the pooch again. Their factory ammo must be completely anemic.
That is the reason I have never considered a 30 RAR. Why does Remington continue to cut their nose off to spite their face. I just cannot figure out how less powder and smaller case can equal velocity in a larger capacity case. 30 RAR better than a 308win/7.62nato? I dont get it. AL |
|
Another thing that's completely insane from Remington is their failure to really support the .260 Remington.
I mean, in the R-25, they have the following chamberings as factory guns: .243 Winchester 7mm-08 .308 Winchester The .260 Remington will do what all of those will do in one cartridge, with more barrel life than the .243 Winchester, and better ballistics than the 7mm-08 and .308, with better penetration, especially with 140gr pills on game. Armalite has a production .260 Rem now with a select match Douglas stainless barrels at 22". |
|
Quoted:
If these numbers are accurate and I have no reason to think they are fasle. Remington has screwed the pooch again. Their factory ammo must be completely anemic. That is the reason I have never considered a 30 RAR. Why does Remington continue to cut their nose off to spite their face. I just cannot figure out how less powder and smaller case can equal velocity in a larger capacity case. 30 RAR better than a 308win/7.62nato? I dont get it. AL The 30 Remington AR is not the equal of a .308 when both are loaded to their full potential. Can't happen, the .308 runs with about 1/3rd more powder. But....the little 30 AR does get a lot more velocity per grain of powder and makes a very nice gun in the smaller AR15 platform in my opinion and isn't very far behind the .308. By the way, although I did get 2643 fps with the 155 gr A-MAX on a reliable chrono out of my R-15, the Remington factory 150 gr Core-Lokt averaged only 2506 against the factory claim of 2575 fps. Historically, I've found Remington's velocity numbers fall short of what is advertised. I'm sure many would reasonably say "why not just get a .308?". Fair question but I wanted something different and wanted the more compact platform and so far, I'm very pleased. Don |
|
Quoted:
DPMS does sell 10 rd mags for it. I ordered two of them, one was to me clearly defective. Returned both for an exchange for the 4 rounders. Took fingers of steel to put more than 7 rds into the factory single stack mag. Not worth the aggravation to me. Interesting observation. I too ordered 2x 10rd mags from them. Figured they would be nice for hog hunting. Both of mine were extremely hard to load after the 7th rd. Also, once loaded to either the 9th or 10th rd, they would loose spring pressure ....... and then sound like a box of rocks. Often times tapping on the mag would cause it to stop hanging up. regardless ..... at like $35/ea, I sent them back. I then got 2 replacements. One was fine, the other was doing the same thing. So I decided to leave the 'problem child' loaded for a week (with spring pressure) and revisit the problem then. Surprisingly it's not messed up since. I do find the 10rd mag to be cumbersome while hunting and often prefer my 4rd'er while in the deer stand. I tolerate it while hog hunting, but truthfully I'd just as soon have 3x 4rd'ers instead of 1x 10rd'er. |
|
Quoted:
I've been doing a lot of research on this round and being a Whitetail Deer hunter where 300 yds would be a max shot, I am considering buying this caliber. ONLY if Remington offers brass though. I reload and need the components before I buy the 30 RAR. Hey Remington are you listening? LOL !!!!! I worried about this too. Just yesterday my wife finally decided what kind of upper she wanted for her AR-deer. So I supported a ARF-sponsor and ordered now our SECOND Remington R-15 in 30 RAR.
I was seriously considering ordering it from Wilson Combat since their magazine ads list it, but after calling on 2 occassions and having the customer rep tell me that 'you must mean 300Blackout' I just gave up on them. As far as Remington listening ........ THEY ARE NOT! I called them last year about brass. Was told 4 months ...... and that came to pass so many times it was rediculious. I called them (Remington) yesterday before ordering the second 30RAR rifle and got the same song-n-dance. The guy said 'everything is going into production b/c we can't keep UMC 123 FMJ in stock'. I told him 'NO CHIT, b/c all of us are buying it to pull the bullet and throw the powder away'. Regardless of brass, as you can see, I still ordered our second one. We have just enjoyed the first one that much. 
|
|
Quoted:
I too have the R-15 in 30 RAR. I absolutely love it! What a fantastic cartridge. I picked mine up for $799 ......
Hey, first post! New guy. First off ..... WELCOME! I too am pretty new to ARF. $799 was what I picked up my first one for at Sportsman's Warehouse. The second one is coming from CDNN for the same price.
It is a great little cartridge ain't it. I'm also fond of 300 Savage, thus 30RAR is a nice fit for me. Especially since I do not want to carry a AR-10 platform. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I too have the R-15 in 30 RAR. I absolutely love it! What a fantastic cartridge. I picked mine up for $799 ......
Hey, first post! New guy. First off ..... WELCOME! I too am pretty new to ARF. $799 was what I picked up my first one for at Sportsman's Warehouse. The second one is coming from CDNN for the same price.
It is a great little cartridge ain't it. I'm also fond of 300 Savage, thus 30RAR is a nice fit for me. Especially since I do not want to carry a AR-10 platform.I'm envious of the price, fantastic deal. Last time I looked it appeared that CDNN didn't have any of them. Got mine from Bud's but paid $1022. Don |
|
'88, I know what you mean. My wife was torn between different options (different calibers, DPMS' 30RAR upper, etc) due to the prices ...... and mainly b/c of my great deal from Sportsmans Warehouse.
Then she stumbled across CDNN's $799 price and called me immediately. She then called CDNN to see if they had any more and they told her not to wait long as they sold like 15 of them in the past few days and was down to 2 in stock. I told her to quit wasting time calling me back and get them to ship one to our local gun shop. Was told it should be here either tomorrow or Monday.
I just hope she likes how the camo pattern was layed/dipped on the gun.  She's already planning on upgrades to do to it.
|
|
Quoted:
'88, I know what you mean. My wife was torn between different options (different calibers, DPMS' 30RAR upper, etc) due to the prices ...... and mainly b/c of my great deal from Sportsmans Warehouse. Then she stumbled across CDNN's $799 price and called me immediately. She then called CDNN to see if they had any more and they told her not to wait long as they sold like 15 of them in the past few days and was down to 2 in stock. I told her to quit wasting time calling me back and get them to ship one to our local gun shop. Was told it should be here either tomorrow or Monday.
I just hope she likes how the camo pattern was layed/dipped on the gun. She's already planning on upgrades to do to it.My wife doesn't have much interest in shooting even though she does quite well when she tries but for whatever reason, she likes the appearance of the camo'd AR. Much better than "ugh, another boring rifle!". Don |
|
Quoted:
Welcome to barfcom! keep your chin up it's a tough place for a new guy. Any pics of that CO mulie with the 30ar? Thanks. Unfortunately I didn't take photos of my deer this year. I got him late in the day of the last day of season and did a speed dressing and then a mad dash to try and make it to the processing place because I was leaving town for the weekend the next morning. Side note, that bastard was covered in live ticks crawling all over him. First time I'd seen it that bad. Gave me the heebie jeebies while skinning him. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I too have the R-15 in 30 RAR. I absolutely love it! What a fantastic cartridge. I picked mine up for $799 ......
Hey, first post! New guy. First off ..... WELCOME! I too am pretty new to ARF. $799 was what I picked up my first one for at Sportsman's Warehouse. The second one is coming from CDNN for the same price.
It is a great little cartridge ain't it. I'm also fond of 300 Savage, thus 30RAR is a nice fit for me. Especially since I do not want to carry a AR-10 platform.Thanks for the welcome. My wife also likes to shoot mine. She is a skinny little thing and she enjoys the light-ish recoil out of the AR platform. It's a great combo. I can understand why your wife chose it for a deer gun as well. I am glad to hear that CDNN is selling so many of them. The more that are sold the more likely the cartridge will succeed. By the way, I use unmodified 5.56 Magpul Pmags and they work flawlessly in mine. I have to be careful when I take mine to the range so that I don't shoot it like I do my standard AR or I am going to burn my barrel out prematurely. |
|
My wife also likes to shoot mine. She is a skinny little thing and she enjoys the light-ish recoil out of the AR platform. It's a great combo. I can understand why your wife chose it for a deer gun as well. I am glad to hear that CDNN is selling so many of them. The more that are sold the more likely the cartridge will succeed. By the way, I use unmodified 5.56 Magpul Pmags and they work flawlessly in mine. I have to be careful when I take mine to the range so that I don't shoot it like I do my standard AR or I am going to burn my barrel out prematurely.[/quote] Very interesting news on the mags, what round capacity Pmag have you used successfully? Thanks, Don. |
|
Quoted:
Very interesting news on the mags, what round capacity Pmag have you used successfully? Thanks, Don. I agree. I would have figured they (MagPul) would not have worked due to the 30RAR having offset feed ramps in the barrel extension and the MagPul mags I got have the little middle plastic piece to keep the bullet tips seperate while loading them. I would figure that would get in the way. I do know a single 30RAR round will load in a convetional metal 5.56/.223 mag, but as soon as you try to load the second one it's like a Jack-n-the-Box. With that being said, I do know I like the OD green MagPul 'look' in the Remington camo gun better than the black metal mag. And I know that my wife currently wants me to paint her metal mags in OD. |
|
I ran some numbers
Looks like a nice round All 55k 22" bbl 110 gr Vmax - best powders, all over 3000 fps. The TTSX should be close. Norma 200 (around 3070 if you can find it) AA 2200 RL7 125 gr prohunter H335 - 2930 W748 - 2960 A lot of others hovering around 2900 130 TTSX RL10x and H335 Others too Both around 2750 W748 - 2786 150 gr part W748 - 2666 165 gr part W748 - 2530 168 amax - coated W748 - 2500 |
AR Sponsor