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Posted: 12/18/2016 5:23:36 PM EDT
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I am looking for options of adding a QD 45 low scope mount. For adding a 4x20 off to the left of my Co witness sights. I want to keep it as compact and close to the action as possible.
I want to place a compact scope in the offset for longer magnified shots. As I want to keep the co witness red dot in the center upright for fast defensive target equations. What are my options for mounts and scopes? I am leaning towards a Leopold VX- 1-4x20mm as the scope? |
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I honestly wouldn't have a magnified optic set on a 45*
Offset RDS and irons are one thing, distances that require magnification are a different story. I can't explain it as well as others, but at distance the difference between the sight axis and bore axis become an issue. |
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Scopes don't work mounted offset at 45. The crosshairs in a scope mounted above the bore aim at a specific point in the distance. The bullet's path intersects the line between your muzzle and that point at either one or two points along that line depending on your zero. You can adjust for any distance along the line by knowing where the bullet's intersection with the line are in relation to your target and moving your crosshairs up or down accordingly.
If you offset a scope, you will have to pick one distance where the bullet's path and the crosshairs meet. The bullet will be traveling in a line along the same path as the bore. However, the scope will be aiming along a different line pointing in a different direction than the bore that intersects the bullet's path only at a single point. It will be impossible for you (unless you're Rainman) to do the calculations required to determine where your crosshairs need to point to get a bullet to hit the intended target. If you don't understand this (it's hard to explain in words), just read the first sentence. There's a reason you can't find the product you're looking for. |
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Quoted:
Scopes don't work mounted offset at 45. The crosshairs in a scope mounted above the bore aim at a specific point in the distance. The bullet's path intersects the line between your muzzle and that point at either one or two points along that line depending on your zero. You can adjust for any distance along the line by knowing where the bullet's intersection with the line are in relation to your target and moving your crosshairs up or down accordingly. If you offset a scope, you will have to pick one distance where the bullet's path and the crosshairs meet. The bullet will be traveling in a line along the same path as the bore. However, the scope will be aiming along a different line pointing in a different direction than the bore that intersects the bullet's path only at a single point. It will be impossible for you (unless you're Rainman) to do the calculations required to determine where your crosshairs need to point to get a bullet to hit the intended target. If you don't understand this (it's hard to explain in words), just read the first sentence. There's a reason you can't find the product you're looking for. Truth. Offset the irons or a red dot, but keep the scope up top and centered above the bore. To use offset irons or red dot, if right handed, they go on the right side at 45 degrees and you rotate the rifle on its axis to the left by twisting your wrist to the left. That brings the dot or irons up to vertical. Something like this is typical. Substitute the scope of your choice and red dot of your choice. Flick of the wrist rotates the dot to vertical when needed. 
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Quoted:
I honestly wouldn't have a magnified optic set on a 45* Offset RDS and irons are one thing, distances that require magnification are a different story. I can't explain it as well as others, but at distance the difference between the sight axis and bore axis become an issue. |
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Quoted:
Scopes don't work mounted offset at 45. The crosshairs in a scope mounted above the bore aim at a specific point in the distance. The bullet's path intersects the line between your muzzle and that point at either one or two points along that line depending on your zero. You can adjust for any distance along the line by knowing where the bullet's intersection with the line are in relation to your target and moving your crosshairs up or down accordingly. If you offset a scope, you will have to pick one distance where the bullet's path and the crosshairs meet. The bullet will be traveling in a line along the same path as the bore. However, the scope will be aiming along a different line pointing in a different direction than the bore that intersects the bullet's path only at a single point. It will be impossible for you (unless you're Rainman) to do the calculations required to determine where your crosshairs need to point to get a bullet to hit the intended target. If you don't understand this (it's hard to explain in words), just read the first sentence. There's a reason you can't find the product you're looking for. I think that only applies if you sighted through the scope with rifle vertical. I assume OP would rotate rifle 45 deg so scope directly above bore (and that the scope would be oriented so the crosshairs would be vertical/horizontal with the rifle held at 45 deg angle). I do agree with you not to put the mag optic at 45 deg. It would be hard to hold it EXACTLY at 45 deg (in which case you'd have errors as you describe). Also, the magnified optic is for more precise shots and it is awkward holding the rifle at 45 deg. OP is much better of having the optic up top and irons/red dot at 45 deg OP: Isn't the whole point of a 1-4x optic that you don't need to worry about that?????? the 1x should work similar to a red dot.... I have an Aimpoint micro at 45 deg next to my Nightforce 5-25x scope on one rifle. |
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I forgot about the crosshairs and bore axis. :( so how do the fold over magnifiers work. Seems like they would also magnify the red dot? That's got to be a blob for accuracy?
I am leaning against a 1-4 as I have a solid front sight post, And want irons as a solid backup. I like the speed of the Cowittnessing red dot as I can get excellent fast field of view equations with both eyes open. It sounds like I may have to have a scoped purpose AR and a red dot AR? Unless the magnifiers are actually good option? If so I can't justify an Aimpoints price. What do yall recommend? And what power magnifier to MOA dot combination? I'm guessing you don't want a 6 x magnifier with the 4 moa dot? |
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Never used a 1-4x, but I would assume front sight post would act same as with a red dot at 1x (you could co-witness to the front, or do a lower 1/3 (assuming those mount options exist). As you magnify, the front sight post goes out of focus and pretty much disappears. Not sure at what magnification that happens.
Tons of people run the 1-4x, and I'm sure also have front sight posts. I'm sure someone can tell you how it looks. I don't think that is a deal breaker for using the 1-4x scope. I use an Eotech, so the center dot is pretty small even magnified. I have the eotech 4x mag (don't make it anymore) and really like it. There are cheaper magnifiers that get good reviews on here (Primary Arms, I think) My magnified Eotech is on a rifle with fold up front/rear and I can't recall how the post looks magnified as I usually have it down..... |
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Quoted:
Never used a 1-4x, but I would assume front sight post would act same as with a red dot at 1x (you could co-witness to the front, or do a lower 1/3 (assuming those mount options exist). As you magnify, the front sight post goes out of focus and pretty much disappears. Not sure at what magnification that happens. Tons of people run the 1-4x, and I'm sure also have front sight posts. I'm sure someone can tell you how it looks. I don't think that is a deal breaker for using the 1-4x scope. I use an Eotech, so the center dot is pretty small even magnified. I have the eotech 4x mag (don't make it anymore) and really like it. There are cheaper magnifiers that get good reviews on here (Primary Arms, I think) My magnified Eotech is on a rifle with fold up front/rear and I can't recall how the post looks magnified as I usually have it down..... You cannot cowitness irons through a magnified scope, even at 1x. As for using a LPV with a FSB, it's not an issue at any magnification. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of my Elcan on 1x mounted on a rifle with a FSB. At 4x it's a small, pretty much nonexistent blur. ETA: Here it is on 1x: Attached File |
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