AR Sponsor
Posted: 8/24/2009 7:28:58 AM EDT
|
My S&W M&P15R 5.45 has had all of 60 rounds fired through it (Russian mil-surp of course), and I've ran something like 300 patches through it and am still getting dirty patches. I've checked the forum and the caliber FAQ and tried everything suggested there - the home solvent (clear ammonia, white vinegar, distilled water) and the hot/scalding water bath, no luck. I've tried other solvents - Cabela's Black Powder solvent, Hoppe's #9 (before I read the Caliber FAQ about kerosene-based solvents such as Hoppes not being able to break down the alkaline salts), and most recently Barnes CR-10.
The Barnes has a somewhat different procedure than I'm used to - run a saturated patch all the way through and wait one minute, run a wet patch through and back 10 times and wait one minute, run a saturated nylon brush (can't think of nylon as being particularly permeable but that's just me) through and back 10 times, then run two dry patches through and back 10 times. The wet patches are coming back cleaner but the dry ones are still VERY dirty. I'd really like to fire this rifle again, any one ran into this where nothing seems to get the fouling out? Thanks in advance. Steve |
|
If you've run 300 patches through the bore, you're doing something WAY wrong.
"Pumping" a patch up and down the bore does nothing. Possibly what you're seeing is metal staining Take a piece of clean cloth and rub it briskly on a piece of BARE aluminum and it'll turn black. The same thing happens in a gun bore to a lesser extent. When shooting corrosive ammo, you need to do a two step cleaning process. The first removes the corrosive salts left by the ammo, the second cleans out any carbon or copper fouling. To clean your bore, run HOT water down the bore and chamber, and use a wet patch to wipe off anywhere the corrosive fumes have made contact. That removes the corrosive salts. Dry the bore and any wetness left by the water. This is simply the first step of cleaning. THEN clean the rifle as normal, by using an unworn bore brush and a bore solvent to brush the bore 15 to 20 passes, (depending on how much you fired it). Run two patches soaked with bore solvent straight through the bore (no pumping up and down), and allow to soak for about 30 minutes. (Read the bottle directions. Hoppe's #9 can soak for days, others can damage the bore if allowed to soak longer than 30 minutes). After soaking, wet a clean patch with solvent and run it straight through the bore and out the end. Inspect the patch for green or blue stains, which indicate copper fouling left by the copper plated finish on the military steel jacketed bullets. If you see none.... the bore is clean. If you see green or blue stains, let it soak some more. Bore solvents need TIME to work. Again read the bottle. You can allow the bore to soak over night IF you're using Hoppe's #9 and check it the next day to be sure. This should remove both the corrosive salts and any carbon or lead fouling. Pumping dry patches up and down will do NOTHING and will usually leave the patch looking stained and dirty when the bore is actually clean. |
|
Thanks for outlining those steps, I will certainly give them a try. Previously I had given the entire rifle a bath in scalding water (bore can't be removed without modification) and after drying did a cleaning with the ammonia-white vinegar-distilled water solvent (run wet patch through, let soak 5 minutes, bore brush, then dry patches) and didn't see any change.
When you say "run HOT water down the bore and chamber, and use a wet patch to wipe off anywhere the corrosive fumes have made contact." do you want the wet patch to be wet with solvent (I presume that is the case)? |
|
I've shot several hundred rounds though mine now. I got the surplus ammo from AIM.
I've let it go anywhere from 1 week to one month after shooting before cleaning and no sign of corrosion yet. When I clean it I run a wet patch of Black Off (black powder solvent from WalMart) through it, let it sit a couple of minutes, run a brush through it 3 or 4 passes and then dry patches till they come out clean (might take 6 or 8 patches). I guess I've never cleaned a rifle till the barrel is absolutely immaculate. When it looks shiny and the patches are pretty well clean, the barrel is clean enough for me. |
|
"When you say "run HOT water down the bore and chamber, and use a wet patch to wipe off anywhere the corrosive fumes have made contact." do you want the wet patch to be wet with solvent (I presume that is the case)?"
No, use hot water. Some bore cleaners made for use with black powder will work fine, but water is cheaper. In the AR you can either use a funnel and tubing to run water down the bore or just use a few patches soaking wet with water. The water, (or a product that contains mostly water) is used to dissolve and flush out the salts left by the corrosive ammo. THEN you use bore solvent to clean the gun of carbon and copper fouling. Cleaning or not after shooting corrosive ammo largely depends on where you live. Live in the desert where its dry and you can usually get away with delaying cleaning. Live where its humid and your gun can literally rust in a couple of hours. Problem is, make a mistake and the rifle gets rusted and there's no UN-rusting it. |
|
Quoted:
My S&W M&P15R 5.45 has had all of 60 rounds fired through it (Russian mil-surp of course), and I've ran something like 300 patches through it and am still getting dirty patches. I've checked the forum and the caliber FAQ and tried everything suggested there - the home solvent (clear ammonia, white vinegar, distilled water) and the hot/scalding water bath, no luck. I've tried other solvents - Cabela's Black Powder solvent, Hoppe's #9 (before I read the Caliber FAQ about kerosene-based solvents such as Hoppes not being able to break down the alkaline salts), and most recently Barnes CR-10. The Barnes has a somewhat different procedure than I'm used to - run a saturated patch all the way through and wait one minute, run a wet patch through and back 10 times and wait one minute, run a saturated nylon brush (can't think of nylon as being particularly permeable but that's just me) through and back 10 times, then run two dry patches through and back 10 times. The wet patches are coming back cleaner but the dry ones are still VERY dirty. I'd really like to fire this rifle again, any one ran into this where nothing seems to get the fouling out? Thanks in advance. Steve I am guessing you used corrosive ammo . No problem , I have used lots of corrosive ammo in C&R guns . Many ways to go about this . Get a bottle od window cleaner w/ ammonia . If you run a few wet patches down the barrel while the rifle is hot , at the range , it may make it easier . Followed by dry patches . I use Shooters Choice Copper Cleaner , when I get home . It is a very aggresive cleaner , do not let it set in the barrel too long . Several wet patches , wait , then dry patches . Repeat untill clean and no blue - green satins on the patches . Finish up with Hoppies # 9 to kill the ammonia in the shooters choice . Dry patches then patch or two with gun oil . The products that smell of ammonia seem to kill the corrosive salts . Remember , clean the gun before the sun goes down . God bless Wyr |
|
My steps following my return home from the range are 1) show my wife the results and 2) start in with the cleaning much to the chagrin of the wife as she hates the solvent odors
Thanks for all the helpful hints. Probably what will help me most immediately is the pumping of the dry patches not doing any good - the Barnes instructions that state something like "continue the procedure until the wet patches are clean" (i.e. no mention of the dry patches being clean) make sense now and it is the wet patches that have gotten cleaner. Also I will be taking window cleaner to the range when I fire this gun. Thanks again, Steve |
AR Sponsor