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Posted: 5/13/2009 7:53:59 PM EDT
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I'm getting my upper ready for my 607 build. I used the old style endcap because I wanted it to be close to the original ones. I find that the handguards float around or twist a little and I'm assuming that is why the originals had that little piece attached to the inside of the larger endcap.
Like this: 
Have any of you guys installed this little doohicky? How did you attatch it, super glue  ,JB Weld, epoxy, or possibly tacked with a wire feed?
Here is mine as of now. 
My brother in Wyoming picked it up for me and I've been working on it on and off when I go there to visit him. So in a month when I go there again I'm going to try to finish it. |
| I just now noticed that the reproduction endcap has different dimensions than the real one(it seems to have more meat on it)so there is not as much room for the little plate, but I suppose I could put one in each corner. As for as brazzing goes, I think you may be right! |
| Silver solder it in. The silver solder will flow much better than brazing rod. A small amount will do. If you get too much, swish away the excess with something like a wood coffee stirrer. When you're done you can blast away the excess with a sandblaster before you repark it. |
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What's weird to me is that the original has more space at the bottom than the repro - space between the recess for the barrel nut and the inside edge is what I'm referring to. Looks like they just cut part of a lip off another HG cap and brazed it in at about the 7:00 position. There's enough there that is should catch the other 1/2 as well - but see the difference? Besides being thicker, as others have mentioned, the inside dimension looks clearly larger - which means the dimensions of the HGs are different than what most of us are using! I mean, look at the pics - it looks like there's barely enough room to braze such a part in on the second pic.
The 607s were all pretty much Colt custom shop guns, and seeing that makes me wonder if they took a little bit off the front of the HG as well to snug it up before measuring and cutting it to carbine specs. If they were trying to make the 607 HGs feel right, this would make sense, and explain both the brazed in retainer and the larger size of the rear cap. So, maybe BOTH the front and rear caps on a real 607 (Or more likely SOME 607s) are custom and non-standard? It would be an interesting thing to measure at the armory next time. Remember, there are sources which said that 607 HGs were made from both the front and rear halves of a set of regular HGs. As the standard rifle HGs are 12" long and my 607 HGs (TSI cut downs) are 6.5" long that means they did it not to be cheap, like us,  but because they were experimenting with sizing. It would be interesting to see if these were cut out of the middle of the HGs and if the front cap is indeed non-standard...which opens up an entirely new can of worms for those of us wanting an historically accurate reproduction. Why would they do this? Because the rear of the HGs may have felt a little too big, the front a little too small, but the middle felt, juuust right.
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If you look closely at the pics 101ABN took it looks like the front handguard cap is stock and that the handguards are from the front half.
Here's the link http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=414249 Does anyone have any pics of a real 607 where the front cap was made up and the back half of the handguards was used? Since there is not much space on the repro ring, you could use some JB Weld in the corners of the ring to kind of bed the handguards. This would take out the slop. Definately not accurate, but would be the fastest/easiest. Of course you would have to make sure you used plenty of release agent on the handguards to keep them from being glued to the ring, but a couple of layers of wax on them should work. And it would only take a small bit of JB to take up the space and wouldn't really be noticable. |
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I'm trying to find a day when I can get back down there and take some more pics. The rear cap is definately custom made for the 607 and thicker, with the brazed bracket on the lower edge. There is just enough space for the thickness of the plastic. I wasn't allowed to take it apart much more than the pics I posted before. I had to do some tap dancing to get one of the handguards off! Another thing the original has that the repros posted here don't is the locking rod is drilled all the way through the lower receiver...
101 
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| Look at the pics, see how the gastube is closer to the top of the cap? And the barrel hole is still the same distance from the gastube? It is as if the HGs themeselves are shifted down on the original which would leave more room at the bottom for the tab to be brazed in place. The repros seem to have the center circle exactly centered in the triangle flange. |
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Look at the pics, see how the gastube is closer to the top of the cap? And the barrel hole is still the same distance from the gastube? It is as if the HGs themeselves are shifted down on the original which would leave more room at the bottom for the tab to be brazed in place. The repros seem to have the center circle exactly centered in the triangle flange. That explains it. Not sure if I can live with my repro HGs now...
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Look at the pics, see how the gastube is closer to the top of the cap? And the barrel hole is still the same distance from the gastube? It is as if the HGs themeselves are shifted down on the original which would leave more room at the bottom for the tab to be brazed in place. The repros seem to have the center circle exactly centered in the triangle flange. That explains it. Not sure if I can live with my repro HGs now...
 I SEE!!!
However my Wa-Tom set will do just fine. On a tangent, notice how one side HG has a drain hole and the other doesn't? My set is exactly the same. Chime in Tom! 
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Handgaurds have drain holes? Kidding. Well I can't recall which feature your refering to, if the standard 12" A1 handgaurd set has them, the 607 versions that me and Ed do will have it too. I have noted that the real 607 has some small differences, not sure it's worth re-tooling over though.....
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I'm suprised nobody has said anything about me using a 604 upper and not cutting off the bayo lug. Well you DID say it wasn't finished...but what's wrong with the 604 upper? They were about 50/50 603/604 uppers IIRC. I prefer the slickside look myself. What I don't get is, Colt went to the trouble on early carbines to chop off the bayo lug, but my 10" 635 upper has one. 
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Does anybody sell aftermarket 'beavertail' handguards that will fit current round M4 end caps? ...???...What Retro rifle/carbine were "beavertail" handguards used on??? WTF *is* a "beavertail" handguard???  Sorry about the terminology. I'm asking about the above handguard style that will fit to a current, round, M4 handguard mount. |
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Sorry about the terminology. I'm asking about the above handguard style that will fit to a current, round, M4 handguard mount. Ah, OK! I know what a Beaver's tail looks like (speedbag shaped), but the 607 is a cut-down triangular handguard... NDS and Tony'sCustomUppers both sell a 607 handguard that installs into round end caps... |
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Does anybody sell aftermarket 'beavertail' handguards that will fit current round M4 end caps? ...???...What Retro rifle/carbine were "beavertail" handguards used on??? WTF *is* a "beavertail" handguard??? Sorry about the terminology. I'm asking about the above handguard style that will fit to a current, round, M4 handguard mount. All of the currently made triangular carbine handguards that I know about require you to replace the round cap with a triangular one. most of them come with the cap, but check to be sure you get the correct cap for your barrel diameter 
pic from our friends at NDS ETA: I have to learn to type much faster! |
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All of the currently made triangular carbine handguards that I know about require you to replace the round cap with a triangular one. What we have heah...is a failure to communicate...
Front cap = triangular; rear cap can be triangular (Model 1, TSI ), or round (NDS, Tony's)...
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