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Posted: 7/18/2003 10:33:12 AM EDT
| Looking for shooter's experience with 6PPC upper in AR. Considering having one built, and wondering if its worth it. Actually doesn't have to be 6PPC; was thinking about 6.5mm PPC wildcat. Assume will use 7.62 x 39 bolt and Lapua brass. Will bolt take the pressure without ripping off lugs? Who does the barrels? In the end looking for higher BC and more punch past 400 yards in an AR15 platform. Maybe its a pipe dream. Do not want AR10. Any suggestions/experience helpful. |
| Whoever you use to build this rifle, make damn sure that they have experience with it and can give references to others that they have built one for. I have talked to some that have had less than desirable results by some claiming to be able to build one, but do not have the past experience that solves the functioning problems when going to this cartridge. One guy I can think of that might be able to do it or at least steer you to someone who can is Scott Medesha. Do a web search for Medesha firearms in AZ. |
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Oly Arms has made them in the past, 6mm PPC barrels, my shooting partner built an upper while I was working there. It shot well, under one MOA, but nothing outstanding. He shot it only for a little while as he had some other bright and shiny project take away his interest, lol. I cannot recall any FTF or other problems besides expensive brass and ammo. I do recall a customer came in once while I was in the sales dept, 7 years ago, and he had a catastrophic failure of his bolt on his 6mmPPC AR-15. It turned out he was loading way out the book, ie his handloads were overpressure and blew up. Fritze Out BTW-17 cal barrels are very hard to make due to the small size of the hole, the deep hole drill has a tendancy to wander while the bore is being cut out of the solid barstock. |
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I have thought the 6mm PPC would be good too. Glen Zediker's book on the AR15 talks about it (and problems with it). Finding a gunsmith is the trick. It is tough to get it to function/feed well and magazines don't work as well with those cartridges. When I have brought it up to a couple of local gunsmiths (specializing in AR's) they tend to to steer me toward the 6mmx45. Velocity is about the same (as the PPC), accuracy (claimed) is great and magazines/feeding is not an issue. One thing to do is to check ballistics tables with the calibers and bullets you are interested in and see how they compare. You may be surprised comparing the 22-6mm-6.5mm with regards to velocity, wind drift, etc. Good luck. |
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What would you like to know about a 6.5mm PPC AR15. I started the project in 1998 and have been shooting it for almost 3 years. I can actually say, I have the first given that the chamber reamers and reloading dies were custom created for my project by JGS Tool and Redding. In brief, I shoot 128 grain Cauteruccio bullets at 2750 fps from the magazine. BC on these bullets is .560. Accuracy wise, .5 MOA groups at 300 yards and popping tennis balls at 500 yards are easy. As far as reliability, the only issue is that magazines need to be tuned to work with the PPC or even the 7.62x39. Not a big deal,,just a bit of massaging with a pair of needlenose pliers. Once done, they work well. Feel free to email |
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Finding the right gunsmith to do a PPC is critical. Many can do a .223 Remington, but alot depends on what reamer they are using. The other issue on alternate calibers like 6mm and 6.5mm, is the gas port size and location. Scott Medesha or Derrick Martin are best suited to do a PPC as a custom so you dont end up with a lemon. One big positive is they are friends and share knowledge. Beyond that, they have made various versions of the PPC in an AR. Scott did my 6.5 PPC in 1999. As a comparison of .22, 6mm and 6.5 bullets in an AR .224 - 80 grain (BC=.500) .223 Rem at 2.450"+ to achieve 2750 fps - will not fit in a magazine. 22 PPC at 2.255" OAL = magazine length. 6mm - 107 grain (BC = .540) will be at 2.350" OAL in a 6PPC - will not fit in magazine. In a 6mmx47,,the 105-107 grain bullets would make the OAL even longer. 6.5mm - 128 grain (BC = .560) will be at 2.255" OAL in a 6.5 PPC = magazine length If you are building a serious rifle, the whole point of using an AR15 is to have a semi-auto with magazine fed rounds. While an 80 grain will work in a 22 PPC magazine length, in the 6.5 PPC, you have magazine length and better ballistics |
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For those that are interested, the 6.5 PPC will no longer be a wildcat and will become a production offering in the AR15. Alexander Arms (maker of the .50 Beowulf) will be offering this round under the name of .26 Grendel. They will have flat top carbine and rifle uppers, factory brass made by Lapua, loaded ammo, reloading dies and 10 round magazines that are manufactured specifically for the PPC. For law enforcement and the military, there will be a 25 round magazine. Currently, the only mention on the Alexander Arms website (http://www.alexanderarms.com) is under the military section. It lists the .26 Grendel under development. |
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Quoted: For those that are interested, the 6.5 PPC will no longer be a wildcat and will become a production offering in the AR15. Alexander Arms (maker of the .50 Beowulf) will be offering this round under the name of .26 Grendel. They will have flat top carbine and rifle uppers, factory brass made by Lapua, loaded ammo, reloading dies and 10 round magazines that are manufactured specifically for the PPC. For law enforcement and the military, there will be a 25 round magazine. Currently, the only mention on the Alexander Arms website (http://www.alexanderarms.com) is under the military section. It lists the .26 Grendel under development. I think I recall this from a post from the Shot show.... Not quite sure though. |
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