AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 6.5 Grendel Questions (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/16/2010 1:48:06 PM EDT
|
I've read multiple times that the 6.5 Grendel is limited in the AR platform because the pressures must be kept low. What is the weak link if the pressure gets too high? I think I've read it is a bolt thrust problem with the larger opening in the bolt face. If so, does that mean that you will break bolts before you start to get blown and pierced primers or other pressure signs?
If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? Also, how much harder can you push the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt action as opposed to an AR (both in pressure and resulting velocity increase)? |
|
Quoted:
I've read multiple times that the 6.5 Grendel is limited in the AR platform because the pressures must be kept low. What is the weak link if the pressure gets too high? I think I've read it is a bolt thrust problem with the larger opening in the bolt face. If so, does that mean that you will break bolts before you start to get blown and pierced primers or other pressure signs? If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? Also, how much harder can you push the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt action as opposed to an AR (both in pressure and resulting velocity increase)? Correct on bolt thrust being one of the limiting factors. You won't break bolts before flattening/blowing out primers. The other limiting factor is the OAL to fit in the AR-15 mag. I use a LMT enhanced bolt. For the most part, if you want a hot rodded 6.5, the Grendel isn't it. If that's what you want, I'd go with the AR-10 types in 260 or the 6.5 Creedmore. Greg |
|
AA changed the material used in the Grendel bolt making it much higher strength than a normal 7.62x39mm bolt.
Case capacity is also an issue. You have to understand the Grendel is what it is. A intermediate cartridge which provides impressive performance through efficient projectiles rather than uber velocity. If you want to chase velocity go with a .260 in an AR-10. |
|
Quoted:
If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? )? Yes, CSS and now Les Bear have addressed the high pressure issues with the 6.5 Grendel. They have redesigned the throat area of the Grendel adding some much needed free bore. The AA 6.5 Grendel has Zero free bore which causes unwanted high pressure, similar to the original 6.8 SPC. If you are going to build a Gendel, stay away from the AA barrels, get a CSS/LW or Les Bear. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? )? Yes, CSS and now Les Bear have addressed the high pressure issues with the 6.5 Grendel. They have redesigned the throat area of the Grendel adding some much needed free bore. The AA 6.5 Grendel has Zero free bore which causes unwanted high pressure, similar to the original 6.8 SPC. If you are going to build a Gendel, stay away from the AA barrels, get a CSS/LW or Les Bear. On spec, the AA chamber has free bore. Some, like the bbl I believe you had, were not cut correctly. I think it was a worn reamer or a reamer that was cut wrong. IIRC, an AA chamber should have 0.110" or 0.120"(don't remember exactly). there are many people out there that are very happy with their AA OEM bbls. I'm very happy with my CSS. |
|
Quoted:
AA changed the material used in the Grendel bolt making it much higher strength than a normal 7.62x39mm bolt. Case capacity is also an issue. You have to understand the Grendel is what it is. A intermediate cartridge which provides impressive performance through efficient projectiles rather than uber velocity. If you want to chase velocity go with a .260 in an AR-10. Or get a 243 WSSM or a wildcat 6.5 WSSM built on an AR-15 upper. I've got an Oly Arms 243 WSSM and really like it. It helps me fulfill that need for speed!! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? )? Yes, CSS and now Les Bear have addressed the high pressure issues with the 6.5 Grendel. They have redesigned the throat area of the Grendel adding some much needed free bore. The AA 6.5 Grendel has Zero free bore which causes unwanted high pressure, similar to the original 6.8 SPC. If you are going to build a Gendel, stay away from the AA barrels, get a CSS/LW or Les Bear. On spec, the AA chamber has free bore. Some, like the bbl I believe you had, were not cut correctly. I think it was a worn reamer or a reamer that was cut wrong. IIRC, an AA chamber should have 0.110" or 0.120"(don't remember exactly). there are many people out there that are very happy with their AA OEM bbls. I'm very happy with my CSS. Nope!! My 6.5 Grendel had Zero Free bore and was inspected by Bill A himself. He tested it and determined that it was"As it Should be". No free bore is what he claims to be a correct AA Grendel Chamber. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? )? Yes, CSS and now Les Bear have addressed the high pressure issues with the 6.5 Grendel. They have redesigned the throat area of the Grendel adding some much needed free bore. The AA 6.5 Grendel has Zero free bore which causes unwanted high pressure, similar to the original 6.8 SPC. If you are going to build a Gendel, stay away from the AA barrels, get a CSS/LW or Les Bear. On spec, the AA chamber has free bore. Some, like the bbl I believe you had, were not cut correctly. I think it was a worn reamer or a reamer that was cut wrong. IIRC, an AA chamber should have 0.110" or 0.120"(don't remember exactly). there are many people out there that are very happy with their AA OEM bbls. I'm very happy with my CSS. Nope!! My 6.5 Grendel had Zero Free bore and was inspected by Bill A himself. He tested it and determined that it was"As it Should be". No free bore is what he claims to be a correct AA Grendel Chamber. I know the story/saw your casting. I doubt they(AA) did a chamber cast like you ended up doing. I either saw the OEM drawing or read what Bill A said the free bore should be. It was either 0.110 or 0.120". If all of his chambers were like yours, there would've been and continued to be more complaints which there just isn't that I've seen to be statistically significant. The only AA bbl I own is a 50 Beowulf. My only 6.5 is a CSS. Your bbl was more than likely cut with a bad reamer. |
|
Quoted:
I've read multiple times that the 6.5 Grendel is limited in the AR platform because the pressures must be kept low. What is the weak link if the pressure gets too high? I think I've read it is a bolt thrust problem with the larger opening in the bolt face. If so, does that mean that you will break bolts before you start to get blown and pierced primers or other pressure signs? If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? Also, how much harder can you push the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt action as opposed to an AR (both in pressure and resulting velocity increase)? Freebore and reamers should be designed to work with specific bullets, if you want to accurately shoot VLDs Bergers, 120gr Amax, Lapua 108s and 123s then the freebore needs to be shorter so the ogive can touch the lands before you hit the max OAL restricted by the mag. A longer freebore (.135)like the 264 LBC has works better with hunting type bullets, the Nosler 100 and 120, 120 TSX and possibly the new 123 Amax comp bullet. The 120gr bullets are hard on the bolts and carriers, the pressure in the barrel stays higher longer and make the cases stick to the chamber walls. Some carriers have a steeper cam slot, when combined with the higher chamber pressures can create more load on the bolt lugs. Some bolts are being made from better materials, we are in the process on machining larger bolts and extensions for use with the 6mmBR and 264 LBC. A bolt gun could handle a full 58-60k where AA has put a 52000 psi limit on ARs chambered in the 6.5G, a 150fps increase could be expected by loading to max pressure that the Lapua cases could handle. |
|
Quoted: <Keep comments on-topic please - Z> Not a hater, just reporting the FACTS. This is a 6.5 Grendel Chamber cast, this barrel has been personally inspected by Bill Alexander himself. He has determined that it is "as it should be". Nothing to hate, nothing to BS about, just the facts, Fact,NO Free Bore. But hey, if you want to stick your head in the sand and praise the Almighty Bill Alexander go ahead. Not me,I'm going to keep my head, face and fingers in tact. Getting rid of my POS AA(Sabre) 6.5 Grendel Barrel was the best(safest) thing I have ever done where my firearms are concerned.  |
Yup, you likely had a chamber issue, but obviously that's the exception and not the rule. I'm sure there are thousands of AA barrels (by Shaw, Sabre, Shilen, LW, etc) that don't have this issue, mine included - yes, I can load 123 Scenars to 2.26 without touching the lands. Glad your happy with your new barrel and that's some good shooting. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: <Keep comments on-topic please - Z> Not a hater, just reporting the FACTS. This is a 6.5 Grendel Chamber cast, this barrel has been personally inspected by Bill Alexander himself. He has determined that it is "as it should be". Nothing to hate, nothing to BS about, just the facts, Fact,NO Free Bore. But hey, if you want to stick your head in the sand and praise the Almighty Bill Alexander go ahead. Not me,I'm going to keep my head, face and fingers in tact. Getting rid of my POS AA(Sabre) 6.5 Grendel Barrel was the best(safest) thing I have ever done where my firearms are concerned. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DSCN0607.jpg But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. Now if you have chamber castings from say 90% of all of the OEM chambered bbls and they all look like yours, then I'd say yeah, probably are all like that. You and I know that's not the case. I'm not being an apologist for anyone. I'm very glad I got the LW/CSS bbl and would buy another. I own 2 AA products, my 50 B and a Billet upper that my 6.5 bbl is in. I had a bad batch of 50B ammo(primer problem). I would be angry if it had been my bbl so don't get me wrong. I don't think it was handled well originally but IIRC, Bill A said to send it back and they would look at it again. I doubt it got much more than a test fire the first time. No company is going to be perfect all of the time. I had an issue with my LW bbl and so did one or 2 others. I'm not going to bash LW for it. They made it right so that's all that matters to me. There's probably several bbls out there that have the same chamber cut as yours did but that's a far cry from all of their bbls. I'm actually surprised there's not more problems out there with all companies because of the supply and demand issues that have pushed production rates into almost war time status. LW told me they had been just one step under that type of schedule. |
| Looking at the casting again up close, it looks like there is about the amt of freebore that is specified. I'm wondering if possibly, since it was chrome lined, that either the chrome went on thicker than it should've been or possibly the chamber was cut correctly for a non-chrome lined bbl but it mistakingly got chromed. That would also make the chamber tighter than it should be. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've read multiple times that the 6.5 Grendel is limited in the AR platform because the pressures must be kept low. What is the weak link if the pressure gets too high? I think I've read it is a bolt thrust problem with the larger opening in the bolt face. If so, does that mean that you will break bolts before you start to get blown and pierced primers or other pressure signs? If the bolt is the limiting factor, has anything been done to address that and allow higher pressures / better velocities like better bolt materials or a redesigned bolt and barrel extension? Also, how much harder can you push the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt action as opposed to an AR (both in pressure and resulting velocity increase)? Freebore and reamers should be designed to work with specific bullets, if you want to accurately shoot VLDs Bergers, 120gr Amax, Lapua 108s and 123s then the freebore needs to be shorter so the ogive can touch the lands before you hit the max OAL restricted by the mag. A longer freebore (.135)like the 264 LBC has works better with hunting type bullets, the Nosler 100 and 120, 120 TSX and possibly the new 123 Amax comp bullet. The 120gr bullets are hard on the bolts and carriers, the pressure in the barrel stays higher longer and make the cases stick to the chamber walls. Some carriers have a steeper cam slot, when combined with the higher chamber pressures can create more load on the bolt lugs. Some bolts are being made from better materials, we are in the process on machining larger bolts and extensions for use with the 6mmBR and 264 LBC. A bolt gun could handle a full 58-60k where AA has put a 52000 psi limit on ARs chambered in the 6.5G, a 150fps increase could be expected by loading to max pressure that the Lapua cases could handle. I'd be interested in a larger bolt and extension as soon as they are available. As long as they would work with the 6.5 grendel. |
|
Quoted:
His ITS bolt is stronger then the milspec and He should have a version that would work with the G.... The Grendel OEM bolt has a deeper recessed face than the standard 7.62x39 bolt. LW/CSS had been chambering their bbls to use the standard bolt face but I guess now they have gone to the recessed bolt face of the OEM chambering. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. But its your statement that all of the AA OEM chambers/bbls are like the one you had. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. Bad mouth AA's barrels all you want....but I continue to laugh as my Satern barrel with its AA chamber will smoke the group you posted from your LW barrel.....with zero pressure issues. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. But its your statement that all of the AA OEM chambers/bbls are like the one you had. I'm not saying that as I have no way of knowing. Bill A is saying that, as this chamber is "as it should be" according to Bill. If this is an "as it should be chamber" then Yes, they all must be like this, according to Bill A not me. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. Bad mouth AA's barrels all you want....but I continue to laugh as my Satern barrel with its AA chamber will smoke the group you posted from your LW barrel.....with zero pressure issues. That's a Goddamn lie, either you are full of shit or Bill is full of shit, But I'm not going to sit back and take this lying down. I will call Bill tomorrow and find out where this BS came from, you or him. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. But its your statement that all of the AA OEM chambers/bbls are like the one you had. I'm not saying that as I have no way of knowing. Bill A is saying that, as this chamber is "as it should be" according to Bill. If this is an "as it should be chamber" then Yes, they all must be like this, according to Bill A not me. Don't you think if all/most of the OEM chambers were like the one you had, there would be postings about it all over these forums. There certainly wouldn't be waiting lists to get rifles, bbls etc. You'd have much more credibility if you just said you had a bad chamber and what was done/said about it including Bill saying send it back and they would look at it further instead of trying to say all of the weapons are short chambered and dangerous etc. I don't believe yours was dangerous. I offered to buy the bbl from you several times. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. But its your statement that all of the AA OEM chambers/bbls are like the one you had. I'm not saying that as I have no way of knowing. Bill A is saying that, as this chamber is "as it should be" according to Bill. If this is an "as it should be chamber" then Yes, they all must be like this, according to Bill A not me. Here are a couple of post from Bill A with respect to by barrel. Note, nowhere does he claim I tried to extort and new custom chamber from him. Not only did I test this rifle, I actually remember the basis of the problem. As I explained at length, the 7.62x39 cases he is using, drops the internal volume by about 10%, they run a large rifle primer and when coupled with a projectile that I do not have a seating depth for, his loads are running high pressure. There are no mysteries in the throat and everything is where it should be. The barrel is well dimensioned and when gauged the internals are correct. The complaint remained that the barrel would not accept the same charges as others who are fireforming brass. As I have no control whatsoever over such practices, and recommend that fireforming is not performed in an AR style rifle, it is not possible to remedy this correct barrel. This said if the gentleman concerned will contact the shop I am more than happy to re-examine the gun. The time frame for the return was driven by the request of the customer to examine the rifle in minute details because of this problem. It did take a little longer than expected but it was an interesting excercise from which I learned some more about the cartridge. This is not to be taken as a generalization. Without the ability to inspect the rifle from Vincent30 I cannot offer any insight into his problem but would certainly suggest that something is amiss from the seating depths. Again give either myself or Sabre a call and we will get it sorted out Bill Alexander http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6367&page=2&pp=25 The throat within the Grendel is a compound design. The initial 0.136" after the 45 degree transition from the case neck is set at nominally 0.5 degrees at this junction the chamber then reverts to a standard 1.5 degree throat. Three areas in total. In testing on pressure barrels we ran the geometrically equivalent free bore of 0.120" ( the same axial length for the two free bore sections) for a direct comparison to the compound set up. There is no measurable shift in chamber pressure between the two designs. Typically the ogive of the projectile for most common 6.5 projectiles will sit behind the throat and only very slight interference is seen in projectiles where the bearing surface is long and protrudes well beyond the case neck. For projectiles with construction that will typically drive up the chamber pressures, this throat design will drop the pressure below that expected in a traditional free bore. The compound throat was investigated and tested for over 18 months before it was incorporated into the chamber design. It's reason for existence is to provide a chamber that will operate and provide reasonable accuracy with a very wide variety of 6.5 projectiles, all loaded to nominally magazine length. This is a compromise as it is not a custom throat specifically tailored to a single projectile type. By comparison the traditional free bore of 0.120" plus throat required to digest the same projectiles is an extremely contrary item which will shoot well with only a few magazine length loads and can then decide to work abysmally for no particular reason. While it will shoot the 125 Nosler Partitions with an ideal jump to the lands, it leaves the 123 Lapua projectiles jumping 0.070" which is not. To effectively drop the pressures seen in the Grendel requires that the throat is extended to 0.220". This will allow similar loads to run nominally 5000 psi lower but it is at the expense of accuracy for almost all loads. Our very early prototypes were used to examine this effect and it was concluded this approach was not viable. Further such long throats create significant problems for any weapon required to operate in Arctic type conditions. Secondary detonation becomes a real consideration. The more viable method is to consider the aspect ratio of the rifling. Typical US barrels run at 70% and the system is set for this rifling type. There is a safety factor in place that allows for the aspect ration seen in European barrels, but I do not recommend this form of rifling generally. To the barrel that Peashooter has in his upper receiver, I have inspected this unit and test fired it. As he is still dissatisfied with the barrel we have contacted him and will again examine the barrel. To date he has not replied. Bill Alexander http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6528&page=3&pp=25 |
|
Quoted:
You won't really be able to get a larger bolt/ext to work with the Grendel and the AR-15 platform. Not practically anyway.Something like Rem is using with their 30 AR possibly. Really? It might look a lot like that 
except the extension will be a little shorter. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You won't really be able to get a larger bolt/ext to work with the Grendel and the AR-15 platform. Not practically anyway.Something like Rem is using with their 30 AR possibly. Really? It might look a lot like that http://m.b5z.net/i/u/6132121/i/PA150023_ezr.JPG except the extension will be a little shorter. Nice..Will the ext fit an unmodified AR-15 upper? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But saying all of the AA bbls out there are all the same isn't stating fact, that is your opinion. . It's not my opinion, It is the words of Bill Alexander, the barrel and chamber are "As it should be". His words, not my opinion. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. Bad mouth AA's barrels all you want....but I continue to laugh as my Satern barrel with its AA chamber will smoke the group you posted from your LW barrel.....with zero pressure issues. That's a Goddamn lie, either you are full of shit or Bill is full of shit, But I'm not going to sit back and take this lying down. I will call Bill tomorrow and find out where this BS came from, you or him. Have at it, this should be good for laughs. I'm sure he will be looking forward to your call. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You won't really be able to get a larger bolt/ext to work with the Grendel and the AR-15 platform. Not practically anyway.Something like Rem is using with their 30 AR possibly. Really? It might look a lot like that http://m.b5z.net/i/u/6132121/i/PA150023_ezr.JPG except the extension will be a little shorter. Now THAT looks interesting!! I will be very interested to see how this project turns out! |
| It fits in a regular AR15 receiver and carrier without any mods, that one is actually for a 6mmBR with a 1" long thread shank. I have been shooting a 6BRX for about 6 months and already sold the rest of the 100 we made on the first production run to high-power competitors. Seems like I made 85 last week, some of those will get a 7.62x39 bolt face on the last op before heat treat. |
|
Quoted:
It fits in a regular AR15 receiver and carrier without any mods, that one is actually for a 6mmBR with a 1" long thread shank. I have been shooting a 6BRX for about 6 months and already sold the rest of the 100 we made on the first production run to high-power competitors. Seems like I made 85 last week, some of those will get a 7.62x39 bolt face on the last op before heat treat. OK, this sounds very interesting indeed. How much difference is there between your new design and a traditional bolt? Any chance of a pic next to a standard bolt? How much? |
|
Quoted:
It fits in a regular AR15 receiver and carrier without any mods, that one is actually for a 6mmBR with a 1" long thread shank. I have been shooting a 6BRX for about 6 months and already sold the rest of the 100 we made on the first production run to high-power competitors. Seems like I made 85 last week, some of those will get a 7.62x39 bolt face on the last op before heat treat. What increases in pressure do you expect can be tolerated vs the OEM Grendel of 52K PSI? I didn't know you were experimenting/building these. |
|
I have been running full pressure loads from a 6BRX at 60K + pushing a 105 Amax to 3000 and 95s to 3200.
The bolt will handle more pressure than the case can, I have made several belted magnum BR cases from high pressure swelling the case when I ran some proof loads near 70K. The bolts lugs are .800 or .050 larger than a standard bolt and made from 9310. I 'll try to get a comparison pic up sometime today. I don't think this is something to swap an existing rifle over to just because of the cost involved but if the rifle was built with this to begin with it would not be that expensive. $165 a set. and that is what it cost in actual machine time. So an extra $80 if built with these to start with. |
|
Quoted:
I have been running full pressure loads from a 6BRX at 60K + pushing a 105 Amax to 3000 and 95s to 3200. The bolt will handle more pressure than the case can, I have made several belted magnum BR cases from high pressure swelling the case when I ran some proof loads near 70K. The bolts lugs are .800 or .050 larger than a standard bolt and made from 9310. I 'll try to get a comparison pic up sometime today. I don't think this is something to swap an existing rifle over to just because of the cost involved but if the rifle was built with this to begin with it would not be that expensive. $165 a set. and that is what it cost in actual machine time. So an extra $80 if built with these to start with. Do you have a set for sale yet? Debating what to build next. I just finished chambering a 16" 6x45 last week. I'm just waiting on dies now to load some rounds up to try it out. A 338 Federal was going to be next for a CMMG lower/DPMS LR-308 upper I've got sitting around doing nothing. My 6.5 CSS has a little over 2K rounds down it and I'd like to build another so that bolt/ext would work very nicely |
|
Quoted:
I will call Bill tomorrow and find out where this BS came from, you or him.
So how come you didn't call? Troll...... My attorney advised me to contact him in writing, via Email. As of yet he has not replied. How about you? PM me with your personal info, so my attorney can contact you directly. Or are you not man enough to stand by your accusation. If what you say is true than, man up and lets have it. I'll be waiting for your PM! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will call Bill tomorrow and find out where this BS came from, you or him.
So how come you didn't call? Troll...... My attorney advised me to contact him in writing, via Email. As of yet he has not replied. How about you? PM me with your personal info, so my attorney can contact you directly. Or are you not man enough to stand by your accusation. If what you say is true than, man up and lets have it. I'll be waiting for your PM! You hired an attorney for a $400 barrel? 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will call Bill tomorrow and find out where this BS came from, you or him.
So how come you didn't call? Troll...... My attorney advised me to contact him in writing, via Email. As of yet he has not replied. How about you? PM me with your personal info, so my attorney can contact you directly. Or are you not man enough to stand by your accusation. If what you say is true than, man up and lets have it. I'll be waiting for your PM! You hired an attorney for a $400 barrel? No, for accusations of Felony Extortion. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I will call Bill tomorrow and find out where this BS came from, you or him.
So how come you didn't call? Troll...... My attorney advised me to contact him in writing, via Email. As of yet he has not replied. How about you? PM me with your personal info, so my attorney can contact you directly. Or are you not man enough to stand by your accusation. If what you say is true than, man up and lets have it. I'll be waiting for your PM! You hired an attorney for a $400 barrel? No, for accusations of Felony Extortion. Ok, I'll bite..Who said they would tell someone you did something unlawful unless you gave them money? |
|
Quoted:
[ Ok, I'll bite..Who said they would tell someone you did something unlawful unless you gave them money? Gunwritr, page one of this thread. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
[ Ok, I'll bite..Who said they would tell someone you did something unlawful unless you gave them money? Gunwritr, page one of this thread. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. That's not extortion on his part..Better get a new attorney. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
[ Ok, I'll bite..Who said they would tell someone you did something unlawful unless you gave them money? Gunwritr, page one of this thread. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. That's not extortion on his part..Better get a new attorney. EXTORTION The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18 The Hobbs Act defines "extortion" as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2). |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
[ Ok, I'll bite..Who said they would tell someone you did something unlawful unless you gave them money? Gunwritr, page one of this thread. Meh, I talked to Bill about your barrel and you.....just to find out what he had to say. Basically you told him you expected him to cut you a custom chamber or you would bad mouth him across the intraweb.....nice. That's not extortion on his part..Better get a new attorney. EXTORTION The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18 The Hobbs Act defines "extortion" as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2). And Gunwrtr did that how? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 6.5 Grendel Questions (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor