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Posted: 1/3/2008 5:46:37 AM EDT
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I'm thinking strongly about another AR........a 6.8 SPC. Two questions for you: 1. Is a Ko-Tonics upper 1-11 twist worth the extra dough over the RRA 1-10 twist? If so, why? It seems I can get a RRA upper with bolt, carrier, and charging handle for the same price as just a Ko-Tonics upper alone. 2. Is 6.8 a better choice than 6.5 Grendel a better choice for: 1) 300 yd and under mid sized game hunting (deer), 2) ammo outlook, 3) parts outlook? Thanks in advance for the advice. |
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Quesiton 1) Worth the difference is a hard thing to say and is a very personal deal. I really like the Kotonics uppers and i'm rounding up my pennies for one. However, i've orderd a Stag upper first because I think they'll do about 95% of what a Kotonics will do. To put it another way, if you are using the rifle professionally, putting your life on the line with it, then in my mind its a no-brainer...spend the extra dough and get Kotonics quality. However, if the 6.8 is going to be more of a plinker, maybe shooting a few Texas whitetails and hogs, the Stag or Rock River will probably serve you just about as well. Personally I chose to go with both...get a Stag upper first, see how I like 6.8 as a caliber, and then if I like it, spend the extra cash and get a Kotonics upper for serious use. Question 2) I think 6.8 SPC has alot more going for it for normal folks and should do plenty good killing Texas deer and Feral pigs out to 300 yds, probably out to 500 with the right bullet. Whitetails are not that tough to kill. My cousins all hunt Deer around Mason, TX with 222, yep 222 not 223. I've shot whitetails with 270 WIN, 308 WIN, 300 MAG, and 45-70 and all are pretty much overkill. Now I use mostly 270 just because its the gun I use for Oryx, Elk, and Mulies in NM but next year i'll give the 6.8 a try on deer and pigs. So far as ammunition, I beleive there is more future in 6.8 SPC than 6.5 Grendel and I believe that for one reason alone. 6.8 SPC is a normal American type cartridge. It is in the public domain for anyone to make guns, dies, ammo, etc for. The 6.5 Grendel, to my understanding, is a proprietary cartridge. In other words, its a copyrighted/trademarked item so if you want to make a 6.5 Grendel die set or a rifle, you have to license the right to make it from the trademark owner. That makes it harder for companies to want to invest in a new product when they are already in the red before they even build one. At least that's my take. -David Edgewood, NM |
Yep, I'll second this one. RRA chimed in and said their barrels are SPCII chambered. PRI mags are the ones to use for the 6.8. I have the 6.5 and the 6.8 and I'm more impressed with the 6.8. |
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Its up to you. The cheapest Ko Tonic would cost you 490, +120(BCG) + 17(charging handle) + 20 (Flash hider) + 25(shipping) = 672 You get the best 6.8 barrel in the market. Chrome lined. And extended feed ramps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RRA you pay 500 dollars shipped, and maybe wait a couple of months. You get a decent barrel (Improved chamber) and extended feed ramps. Note, barrel is not chromed lined --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stag Arms you pay 525 -550. You get decent barrel (Improved chamber) and chrome lined. But you dont get any extended feed ramps. To me the RRA is the best bang for the buck. But go with Kotonic if you want the very best for the buck. |
It's mostly a wash for hunting deer, but, without having the time to run the numbers myself, you might get better velocity and energy from the 6.5 Grendel, making it the harder hitting round, as the range increases.
Depends on whether you reload or not. Reloaders have a wider variety of 6.5mm hunting bullets, and the 6.5 Grendel case is designed to handle heavier hunting bullets. For 6.5 Grendel factory ammunition, AA has five loadings and Black Hills has a loading. Those are your premium manufacturers. Wolf Ammunition has cheap 6.5 Grendel hunting ammo, will soon have a "tactical OTM" load, and is working on even cheaper 6.5 Grendel steel-cased combat ammo. It's possible another 6.5 Grendel manufacturer will be announced at SHOT Show 2008.
The 6.8 SPC has a wider selection of vendors for build options, despite the recent entrance of JP Enterprises into the 6.5 Grendel market, joining AA, Les Baer, and Sabre Defence. John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
I would go about it like this, you asked a good a question, one that is often asked many a month in this forum. It comes down to a ton of variables. Mostly which are important to you. RRA makes a great product, so does Ko-Tonics, so does MSTN, GTS Noveske, all who chamber guns in 6.8 and most people who are not "internet dirt shooters" consider them to be top notch, you really cannot go wrong with them. As far as whitetail goes, dead is dead. I hunt mulies on my ranch in the upper mid west and I would have no issue taking them with either a 6.8 or a 6.5 I happened to go with the 6.8 as it was next on my "firearms to build" list. I research my projects very heavily and so far have not been let down. Almost every major firearm maker and just about every AR mfg now offers a rifle in 6.8, Remington, Ruger, Bushmaster, RRA, CMMG, Stag, DPMS,and the best of the best custom guys GTS, Noveske, MSTN, Ko-Tonics, Reiner Arms/NW Tac, ADCO and the list goes on, there is a reason they do so... Now, just because there are fewer 6.5G mfgs does not mean it is second to the 6.8. Just see what you need, or which you like better and give it a try. Big Bore on here for example enjoys both the 6.8 and 6.5 and I consider him to be very well informed on both rounds, maybe he can pop in and give his thoughts. Again look into what you feel would best serve your needs. Whats around you for parts, ammo etc, if your by a Cabelas, well hopefully you can get both 6.8 and 6.5, theres always mailorder, reloading or the net which you obviously have access to. Reloader, well there is a large selection of .26 caliber bullets which gives the 6,5 a plus. The only 6.5 I own is a 6,5x55 swedish mauser... it is very accurate for a mil surp firearm... If I were getting a 6.5 G, The Sarten cut rifled barrel would be the way I would go. Eventually I will build one so I can figure out why people constantly need to pit one round vs the other. I used to think it was simply due to the fact there was .3 between the two rounds... turns out its more then that, sort of like a "my xxx is better (or bigger) then yours" complex... but who knows why it has to be that way. Anyways, Parts outlook, well most AR15 parts will work with either config, FF tubes etc, the only things which need attention are the fact they use different bolts and mags need some tweaking etc. Here is a 6.8 Upper Eval/Shootout, it was very well done. Read and enjoy the tech part, I did. 6.8 Upper Eval Sorry if that did not make the decision any easier but truly if your hunting whitetails with either one your going to be just fine. |
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| 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | John, Get rid of this first; then there can be real discussions. For 600M+ solutions; the .408C or .416 Barrett offer much better solutions for LR usage. |
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Price and easy availability is another area to look at. You can get 6.8 uppers in a huge price range of configurations. You can also find them available just about everywhere they are being offered with no wait time. The G has a lot of very good points ie.. longer range many good hunting bullets if reloading, very accurate round; but it is generally a more expensive piece of hardware with limited suppliers (but very high end suppliers) it takes longer to get them and they are more expensive. Ammo must also be mail ordered almost without exception. 6.8 ammo can be found at quite a few Gander's and other big chain as well and many smaller gun dealers. But with regard to the 6.5G this will be changing IMO. With all this said if you want or need what the 6.5G offers you should get it and like wise if the 6.8 fits you get that. Based on what you have said you want out of your rifle either would do. The 6.8 has the benefits of availability, price range, much larger selection and factory loading available. You can also find their parts ie Mags, bolts etc.. at quite a few gun dealers stores which you won't with the G as it is controlled by AA. If you are looking for a very high end with long range capability and don't mind the extra time it takes to acquire the different things needed and plan to reload anyways the G may fit the bill. If you are going to be hunting and feel you have the skills needed to shoot prey at over 500 yards then the obvious choice is the G anything inside that and IMHO the 6.8 has the overall benefits which includes more things than just bullet performance as I have listed previously. But these are all just my personal opinions. I don't think anyone should be taking anything but varmints past 500 yard with anything less than a magnum round. I find I am much more liberal in this type of thinking then most hunters as they by far will state anything past 400 or less on other than varmints shouldn't be taken, period. I'm not in this group, if you can make the shot regardless of range take it. But you have to have enough bullet and energy to take out that prey with a cold bore shot at possible unknown distances and varying conditions. Everything has to be factored into. Anything under a magnum caliber IMHO past 500 yard should be kept to paper punching not hunting, again anything other than varmints in pest control. Remember just about anything can be made to perform greatly past its real world abilities in a controlled environment or test protocol To the posters that seem to want to take every opportunity to get a dig in against the 6.5 G or vise versa please ratched it down. There is absolutely no positive benefit to this type of behavior. These type of comments have no place on here and should be kept to the playground where they belong. This incessant baiting by a very small group on both sides sours and taints every thread and forum its venom happens to appear in. Which thankfully, has been much decrease as of late. If you have something factual about pluses and minus of the different offerings then fine voice them, but this school yard crap has to stop. I for one am so tired of seeing good threads and discussions ruined repeatably by these types of things. Give it a permanent rest for everyone sake. Tim ETA: if I was choosing between RRA and Ko-tonics I would choose the later every time even if the price was farther apart. You are getting individual support from Tim. He backs his products up better then just about any other. Has some of the best CS. It is also the best as far as specs you can get and in all reality should be much more expensive. What you get is the ability to take the SPC to its top level of performance without being hampered by constricting barrel configurations. With his config if you are maxed out its because thats as hard as that round can be pushed based on the powder and bullet combo coming out of a AR type rifle. Instead of, I am as far as I can push this because of pressure from "fill in the blank" of rifle spec thats causing the problem. I am glad to see RRA now uses the Improved Chamber and M4 ramps but Ko-Tonics has that along with shallow 4 groove 11:1 twist and chromed lined. It further has a proven track record of sub-moa accuracy with many different loadings including quite a few factory offerings. |
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Thank you all for your replies. They have been a great help. I'm continuing to research my options. Of course, I'm in a hurry to get one hurry. |
You can get the RRA upper shipped for way under $500. Contact Pete at Legal Transfers. 
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