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Posted: 1/1/2009 12:55:18 PM EDT
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I am looking at something for my AR. Right now I am looking at the EOtech 3X (or 4X) Magnifier with a holographic Sight or an ACOG under $900.
My main purpose would be target shooting. I do not hunt anything right now but I may later on so that may be a factor as well. I am pretty much a noob when it comes to this stuff so any insight/advice is appreciated. Thanks! |
| I don't like and don't trust red dots. No power = no reticle + they arn't really optics. Just clear peices of glass with an image projected on them. Ridiculously expensive for what they are in my opinion. The Trijicon TA31F's are nice if you like the both eyes open bindon aiming concept for close ranges. I can't really deal with a magnified optic for both eyes open use. I use and love the Leupold CQT. For both eyes open use it has a true 1x setting. For magnified use it adjusts to 3x. They can still be had for around $700 on the web. |
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Quoted:
I don't like and don't trust red dots. No power = no reticle + they arn't really optics. Just clear peices of glass with an image projected on them. Ridiculously expensive for what they are in my opinion. The Trijicon TA31F's are nice if you like the both eyes open bindon aiming concept for close ranges. I can't really deal with a magnified optic for both eyes open use. I use and love the Leupold CQT. For both eyes open use it has a true 1x setting. For magnified use it adjusts to 3x. They can still be had for around $700 on the web. I have never used an ACOG, I plan on going and trying one out (just the scope, not firing) to see how I like it. I don't really know my preference on both eyes or one eye. |
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I would read this excellent stickied post at the top of this forum:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=346233 The ACOG and the Eotech are really different classes of device, and you need to define what class device you want. If you want an unmagnified red dot, then the choice would be between an Aimpoint and an Eotech. If you want magnification, then the ACOG would be a choice, as well as the Eotech and Aimpoint with magnifiers, although that setup just seems a little complex, expensive, and prone to damage IMHO. I will say, though, that in the tactical rifle matches I have shot (with an Eotech) some magnification would have been nice out past 100 yards. I am interested to see the Trijicon Accupoint TR24 when it is out and reviewed, as it seems to be a good compromise. There are some good posts on this upcoming scope on the site, as wll as one with link to a datasheet. |
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Quoted:
I would read this excellent stickied post at the top of this forum: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=346233 The ACOG and the Eotech are really different classes of device, and you need to define what class device you want. If you want an unmagnified red dot, then the choice would be between an Aimpoint and an Eotech. If you want magnification, then the ACOG would be a choice, as well as the Eotech and Aimpoint with magnifiers, although that setup just seems a little complex, expensive, and prone to damage IMHO. I will say, though, that in the tactical rifle matches I have shot (with an Eotech) some magnification would have been nice out past 100 yards. I am interested to see the Trijicon Accupoint TR24 when it is out and reviewed, as it seems to be a good compromise. There are some good posts on this upcoming scope on the site, as wll as one with link to a datasheet. Nice read, it seem as if I would be looking for the type 2, I really don't have an interest in shooting over 400 yards due to the limited distance at the ranges (600 yards is the most) most ranges around here go to 200 or 300 yards. |
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You can't really compare the two of them....
The Eotech is designed as a close quarters optic and can be used to shoot at distance. The magnifier combo is really for identification at distance more then precise shooting at distance since you need to have you Eotech zeroed at that distance for it to hit POA (point of aim). Think of it more as a crutch then a true magnified optic. It allows you to see further but you will not have as precise of a reticle to use to place your shots. What I mean is you'll have to zero at 300yds to hit at 300yds. If you're zerod at 50yds and go to shoot at 300yds you'll have to learn your holdovers The ACOG is a great optice for 50yds and further. The reticle is great for distance shots with the BAC and of course it has the other advantage of never needing batteries. When the Tritium does eventually die in it, you'll still have the black reticle or you can send it back and have it recharged. The biggest downside to the ACOG is up close shots within 50yds it will not be as fast as an eotech or aimpoint. You need to decide what kind of shooting you'll be doing. Do you want to be doing distance stuff mostly, or up close stuff? If you're going to be doing lots of up close, CQB style shooting, then the eotech with magnifier is a better set for you. You'll be able to shoot further out if you want to, but don't expect to get tight groups because of the reticle. If you're going to be doing more long range stuff and want to shoot more for groups then you're better off with the ACOG or some other magnified optics. One thing you could also consider is to get a variable powered optic like someone mentioned. This would allow you to crank up the magnification to shoot for accuracy/groups at distance, and bring it back down to shoot close up. The disadvantage to these is that the reticles are more often designed with practical accuracy in mind, meaning man sized targets, and not cloverleaf holes. They're also more complex since they're variable powered so there's the possability for more to break. However unless your ass will be on the line this is a MOOT point if you're only going to be range shooting. |
| For what you want you dont want the EOtech. The AOCG is the best 50+ yard compact low powered scope out there. It is not fun in close. An Aimpoint is the best inclose optic out there. To dog one because it uses batteries is the height of stupidity. I use a 1-4X because I want more precision than a red dot and better close range ability than an ACOG has. |
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Buy an ACOG TA31TRD with Red Dot....This is what I am going to put on my upper on order...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3283/3159294200_ef41ca6786.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3159294400_cb128be8ed.jpg |
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TacticalS4
I am pretty much a noob when it comes to this stuff so any insight/advice is appreciated. Thanks!
If that is true, then instead of buying an optic, you should invest in a class and really find out what you don't know. Plus there will be other shooters in the class that will have all these different sights and they will let you try them. This way, you won't be another member of the legion of shooters who have a $900 optic and little to no skill in using it...remember,optics don't make you shoot better, then just help you see better... |
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Quoted:
TacticalS4 I am pretty much a noob when it comes to this stuff so any insight/advice is appreciated. Thanks!
If that is true, then instead of buying an optic, you should invest in a class and really find out what you don't know. Plus there will be other shooters in the class that will have all these different sights and they will let you try them. This way, you won't be another member of the legion of shooters who have a $900 optic and little to no skill in using it...remember,optics don't make you shoot better, then just help you see better... Good point...and mastering your iron sights will go a long ways in making you a better shooter all around. |
| The Leupold Mark IV scope (mounted on my Bushmaster) with illuminated reticle works well for me. The farthest I shoot is a little over 200 yards (max length of the public range I frequent). I also like the compact ACOG (mounted on my RRA) for CQB distances out to the max distance of our firing range. I tried the EoTech/magnifier combo and hated it as it was too much stuff hanging off my rig and made it feel heavy. |
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Good point and what I really don't want to do, or even sound like, is just another guy who heard how "cool" the ACOG was and wanted one. I have some very knowledgeable friends when it comes to the matter. They have just been really busy lately so I figured I wouldn't bother them with the initial questions and just bother all of you with them :)
As far as shooting better, practice, practice, practice. Last time I shot my buddies AR at 100 yards I had a fairly tight grouping. I just haven't shot much with any optics, and I want to get better. I am just looking for something that will shoot well at 300 yards and make it possible for me to see the targets a little farther out. I am thinking the EOtech is out and the ACOG has moved up. I will look at the Leupold as well. One thing I really wanted was the illuminated reticle. |
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Quoted:
Buy an ACOG TA31TRD with Red Dot....This is what I am going to put on my upper on order... http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3283/3159294200_ef41ca6786.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3159294400_cb128be8ed.jpg That's a bit more than I wanted to spend... but it does have the red dot and is 4X. |
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Just curious about what the one person said about the eotech having to be sighted in for that particular range. What about the 557 with the 223 ballistic reticle. Would that fair any better for distance shooting? I didn't see Competition as one of your criteria so if that's going to be one of your intended uses, I can offer some input. I shoot the 557 with the 4X combo for 3-gun and it serves that role perfectly. The matches typically range from CQB out to 400 yard flashers where the 557 BDC dots shine. Even though the dots are calibrated for 62g M855. they still work just fine for my 55g Sierras JHPBT. Coming from an ACOG TA31 and AccuPoint 1.25-4X, I'd still give the thumbs up for the EOTech with 4X combo. IMHO, ACOGs are fantastic fixed emplacement optics but are just not that great for anything under 50y. Sure, you can learn to shoot using OEG but my POI and POA were always off due to phoria. As for the AccuPoint, I see them everywhere on the 3-gun circuit. While an excellent optic, I never shot it well at long range due those double vertical lines under the reticule. And the solid triangle reticule covered up several of the targets at long range as well. |
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Just curious about what the one person said about the eotech having to be sighted in for that particular range. What about the 557 with the 223 ballistic reticle. Would that fair any better for distance shooting? No. The problem with the Aimpoint or EOThing is that there is no magnification for longer range target ID unless you put a second optic behind it. The red dot sight is best used for close combat where you do not need magnification to see and ID your target. If you plan to do any or most of your shooting at range, then a ACOG will be your best bet. They allow for ID, speed and accurate shooting without the need for another magnifier behid your prime sight. If both are in your future, suck it up and get both one for CCO and one for GP. Each has its place but neither work majic if in the wrong situation. |
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scottrh2
The red dot sight is best used for close combat where you do not need magnification to see and ID your target.
While true, for most folks, they would be best served by a red dot, but folks just love the crutch that magnification allows and if you laid out a dozen optics on a table and let folks choose, 9 times out of 10, they will choose the magnified optic. Rarely will anyone be able to justify the use of deadly force beyond 100 yds in any situation not involving wearing a MICH and having Uncle Sugar as your boss... |
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scottrh2 The red dot sight is best used for close combat where you do not need magnification to see and ID your target.
While true, for most folks, they would be best served by a red dot, but folks just love the crutch that magnification allows and if you laid out a dozen optics on a table and let folks choose, 9 times out of 10, they will choose the magnified optic. Rarely will anyone be able to justify the use of deadly force beyond 100 yds in any situation not involving wearing a MICH and having Uncle Sugar as your boss... Great post. And it also applies to the military. The Army study that influenced the development of the M16 showed that most WWII/Korean combat was at ranges of 100 yards or less IIRC. This finally slew the myth of every soldier a Sgt York. In my AO the farthest shot you could take is 200 yards, for the most part, and I doubt anyone would be standing still for more than the first one. Get a good CQB optic and get proficient with it at CQB ranges, and work on ranges over 100 yards only after that. The most likely scenario for a self defense situation is my hallway at home. That is under 10 yards. |
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Quoted:
TacticalS4 I am pretty much a noob when it comes to this stuff so any insight/advice is appreciated. Thanks!
If that is true, then instead of buying an optic, you should invest in a class and really find out what you don't know. Plus there will be other shooters in the class that will have all these different sights and they will let you try them. This way, you won't be another member of the legion of shooters who have a $900 optic and little to no skill in using it...remember,optics don't make you shoot better, then just help you see better... Take this ADVISE btw If I was useing the AR for protection I wouldnt go with Eotech |
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