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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR15 Distance Accuracy (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:16:32 PM EDT
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So this new guy at work is a big gun nut and apparently has a good collection of pistols and rifles, no ARs. He despises the black rifle. Why? I have no Idea, but the fact is that when ever I tout the AR as a great weapon he always tries to shoot it down.
Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. Now I didn't research the topic before saying this to him but I thought I remember reading that ARs can get that kind of accuracy, even without having an aftermarket barrel. Was I wrong in saying this or does this guy not know what hes talking about? |
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So this new guy at work is a big gun nut and apparently has a good collection of pistols and rifles, no ARs. He despises the black rifle. Why? I have no Idea, but the fact is that when ever I tout the AR as a great weapon he always tries to shoot it down. Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. Now I didn't research the topic before saying this to him but I thought I remember reading that ARs can get that kind of accuracy, even without having an aftermarket barrel. Was I wrong in saying this or does this guy not know what hes talking about? You could send him this article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_5_55/ai_n31480102/?tag=content;col1 |
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Yep, he's an idiot. The AMU does some damn cool stuff with the M16A2, with iron sights even.
A whole lot of folks have gotten better accuracy than that many times with an AR........................the platform is capable of much. He doesn't know what he's talking about, on the subject of accuracy in ARs. Hey darkknight206, have you been HERE yet to say hi? Stop on in! Great bunch of folks. 
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. By the way he was also trying to tell me that US snipers would never use an AR. He wouldn't listen when I told him many modern snipers are switching to the AR because of its versatility and accuracy. That I do know to be a fact. Edit: Ya I've browsed over some of the threads in the WA page. I love the fact the we have by far the most posts out of any of the local forums 
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. By the way he was also trying to tell me that US snipers would never use an AR. He wouldn't listen when I told him many modern snipers are switching to the AR because of its versatility and accuracy. That I do know to be a fact. Edit: Ya I've browsed over some of the threads in the WA page. I love the fact the we have by far the most posts out of any of the local forums You should drop on in. Great bunch of people. Some of us know each other and GTG on a regular basis too. |
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Yep, he's an idiot. The AMU does some damn cool stuff with the M16A2, with iron sights even. Seriously, those AMU guys are nuts! THE BEST SHOOTERS IN THE WORLD! I see them doing demos all the time on Shooting USA and the Military Channel. I really liked that "Best Sniper" show they had on the military channel. It really shows you what these guys are capable of. |
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. |
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Hey Vini.
Nothing worth writing home about, but I shot in a ICFRA Match (European style) this weekend with a RRA Varmint A4, here is the center of my target for the third string. 15 shots, 300 yards. To be fair two of my sighters were a 4 and a 5, and two of my recorded shots were threes (improper cheekweld is my story and I'm sticking to it...). So with the flyers it is 3.5 inches, without the flyers it is 2.3 inches. 
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. No being capable of shooting MOA hardly makes one a crappy shooter |
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. No being capable of shooting MOA hardly makes one a crappy shooter I agree. Furthermore, I don't think an AR can do a 1" group at 100, let alone a 5" at 500, without free-floating AND match ammo. I think even with a free-float tube there'd be no way with M193 or M855 |
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. No being capable of shooting MOA hardly makes one a crappy shooter I agree. Furthermore, I don't think an AR can do a 1" group at 100, let alone a 5" at 500, without free-floating AND match ammo. I think even with a free-float tube there'd be no way with M193 or M855 Ummm, you'd be wrong. It's entirely possible and is done quite regularly by competition shooters in the .Mil. |
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. By the way he was also trying to tell me that US snipers would never use an AR. He wouldn't listen when I told him many modern snipers are switching to the AR because of its versatility and accuracy. That I do know to be a fact. Edit: Ya I've browsed over some of the threads in the WA page. I love the fact the we have by far the most posts out of any of the local forums I was sniper qualified and filled a billet (position). We do utilize the SPR as a sniper rifle (I was on the orginal testing) and been using the SR25 for close to 15 years as a sniper rifle. Now the SR25 has been typed classified as the M110 Semi Auto Sniper System. Tell him to research those two rifles. CD |
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. By the way he was also trying to tell me that US snipers would never use an AR. He wouldn't listen when I told him many modern snipers are switching to the AR because of its versatility and accuracy. That I do know to be a fact. Edit: Ya I've browsed over some of the threads in the WA page. I love the fact the we have by far the most posts out of any of the local forums show him this! m110 |
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Most stock carbines with factory ammo wouldn't quite be 1 MOA (although, some are, and it depends a lot on the ammo) but even a moderately accurized AR can do 1 MOA. Almost all ARs will shoot MOA if you free float the barrel and use good ammo.
ETA: when I say "good" ammo, that means something more accurate than M193 or M855. Both are good ammo for their intended purpose, but by "good" I was thinking "match grade". |
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. No being capable of shooting MOA hardly makes one a crappy shooter I agree. Furthermore, I don't think an AR can do a 1" group at 100, let alone a 5" at 500, without free-floating AND match ammo. I think even with a free-float tube there'd be no way with M193 or M855 Ummm, you'd be wrong. It's entirely possible and is done quite regularly by competition shooters in the .Mil. Really? With match ammo or otherwise? |
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. <snip> I'd say put up or shut up on that one too. I'd want to know what box you got a 1/2MOA at 600 rifle from. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see it. Shooting 1/2MOA at 600 isn't easy, no matter what you're shooting. I know you're not claiming to have done it, but it's a big leap from 1" at 100 to 1/2 MOA at 500. <ETA> I read the article. Hat's off to the shooter, that's astounding with iron sights. |
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. By the way he was also trying to tell me that US snipers would never use an AR. He wouldn't listen when I told him many modern snipers are switching to the AR because of its versatility and accuracy. That I do know to be a fact. Edit: Ya I've browsed over some of the threads in the WA page. I love the fact the we have by far the most posts out of any of the local forums show him this! m110 No Larue mount FTL |
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That's my understanding, many AR's are capable of MOA@500yds, but most average service rifles are little less accurate than that. You either have to improve accuracy with aftermarket parts, get a very high quality rifle from the get go, or find the one lucky rifle the tolerances stacked up to make more accurate than typical.
The average Marine is shooting 8/10 - 10/10 in the black at 500yards on a 18" wide black man shaped target. Considering, that the average marine only has a moderate amount of training and experience compared to most enthusiast and match shooters, I think its a good guess those service rifles are sub 2 MOA, or better, at 500yds to be able to do that, but NOT MOA. |
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There a very few guys in the WORLD that can shoot a 1/2 MOA group at 600yds with a 5.56 AR... And you can bet your ass it's NOT with a "Box-Stock" 5.56 AR!!! There are just too many factors that will affect that tiny little projectile over that distance. It's not even a matter of the shooter's abilities. I've done it with a Highly Tuned .308 and optics that cost more than the rifle itself ( and I'm not saying I'm the best shot out there) and felt a HUGE sense of accomplishment.
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. <snip> I'd say put up or shut up on that one too. I'd want to know what box you got a 1/2MOA at 600 rifle from. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see it. Shooting 1/2MOA at 600 isn't easy, no matter what you're shooting. I know you're not claiming to have done it, but it's a big leap from 1" at 100 to 1/2 MOA at 500. |
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There a very few guys in the WORLD that can shoot a 1/2 MOA group at 600yds with a 5.56 AR... And you can bet your ass it's NOT with a "Box-Stock" 5.56 AR!!! There are just too many factors that will affect that tiny little projectile over that distance. It's not even a matter of the shooter's abilities. I've done it with a Highly Tuned .308 and optics that cost more than the rifle itself ( and I'm not saying I'm the best shot out there) and felt a HUGE sense of accomplishment.
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. <snip> I'd say put up or shut up on that one too. I'd want to know what box you got a 1/2MOA at 600 rifle from. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see it. Shooting 1/2MOA at 600 isn't easy, no matter what you're shooting. I know you're not claiming to have done it, but it's a big leap from 1" at 100 to 1/2 MOA at 500. I understand just how hard it is to get a grouping like that. Accuracy is very much a part of the shooter as well as the equipment. So thinking of it that way I could see how someone would be skeptical at that kind of accuracy. 1/2 MOA is very hard to get at 100 yards; I can't even shoot that (yet). However, going off of my main topic, I really just wondered if the AR-15, as a rifle, could get that kind of accuracy. Or better put could a good shooter produce that kind of grouping with a basic AR rifle. From what I gather here it does seem possible to get that kind of accuracy though. On that same subject (kind of) what do you guys think I could produce with my rifle at 500 yards. I have a newer S&W M&P15or with a free-floated barrel. I've heard the S&Ws are pretty accurate with the stock barrels since they're Thompson/Center (S&W owned). I know it mostly depends on me as the shooter but again I'm wondering about the equipment not me. I can practice to make myself better, but I can't magically make my rifle more accurate without replacing parts. |
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This is most likely the root cause of the coworker's heartburn. I'd be curious how much real range time he gets, and how many rounds he goes through when he's at the range... Plus, with a veritable arsenal of a collection, does he spend all his time with his Desert Eagle and not get any practice with his rifles? Or does he spend a lot of time with one particular rifle he's spent a lot of money and effort on upgrading and customizing?
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. Not to say that "not being able to shoot MOA makes him a crappy shot," but if he's got a full time job, he probably doesn't have time to be more than "proficient" with more than one or two weapons. If his choices for what he does the most shooting with give him the impression that it's Very Hard to shoot MOA, that's what he's going to say. Of course badmouthing stuff he has no experience with doesn't help him sound more intelligent... |
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This is most likely the root cause of the coworker's heartburn. I'd be curious how much real range time he gets, and how many rounds he goes through when he's at the range... Plus, with a veritable arsenal of a collection, does he spend all his time with his Desert Eagle and not get any practice with his rifles? Or does he spend a lot of time with one particular rifle he's spent a lot of money and effort on upgrading and customizing?
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Anyways, the other day I had mentioned to him about the accuracy of a good AR can be MOA at 500 yards (5" at 500yd). He said that would be impossible and that only his best rifle (not sure what it was) could even get that grouping. What he meant was HE cant shoot that well with his rifles. Safely assuming he has bolt guns, if he can't do 1 MOA from a decent one out of the box...then he's a crappy shot. Not to say that "not being able to shoot MOA makes him a crappy shot," but if he's got a full time job, he probably doesn't have time to be more than "proficient" with more than one or two weapons. If his choices for what he does the most shooting with give him the impression that it's Very Hard to shoot MOA, that's what he's going to say. Of course badmouthing stuff he has no experience with doesn't help him sound more intelligent... Guys, shooting 1 MOA at 500 yards isn't easy. Why all the speculation about this coworker? The guy may not be aware of the accuracy potential of the AR, but that doesn't mean he has an arsenal of safe queens and just blazes with his Desert Eagle. |
| There is a good book I just got done reading called "trigger men" and in the book there are several interviews with snipers that were in combat in either Iraq or Afghanistan and several of them talk about getting that kind of accuracy out of their AR based rifles. A couple even mention that they prefered using that rather than the M24 or M40 because sometimes engagements were quick and often full of multiple targets and they didn't feel they were losing much if any accuracy by using a non-bolt action rifle |
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There a very few guys in the WORLD that can shoot a 1/2 MOA group at 600yds with a 5.56 AR... And you can bet your ass it's NOT with a "Box-Stock" 5.56 AR!!! There are just too many factors that will affect that tiny little projectile over that distance. It's not even a matter of the shooter's abilities. I've done it with a Highly Tuned .308 and optics that cost more than the rifle itself ( and I'm not saying I'm the best shot out there) and felt a HUGE sense of accomplishment.
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He's a tard. Ya thats what I thought I liked the article. I will definitely mention it to him, or better yet show it to him. Can't get MOA my ass, he won't believe me when I tell him an out of the box AR can get 1/2 MOA at 600 yards. <snip> I'd say put up or shut up on that one too. I'd want to know what box you got a 1/2MOA at 600 rifle from. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to see it. Shooting 1/2MOA at 600 isn't easy, no matter what you're shooting. I know you're not claiming to have done it, but it's a big leap from 1" at 100 to 1/2 MOA at 500. I understand just how hard it is to get a grouping like that. Accuracy is very much a part of the shooter as well as the equipment. So thinking of it that way I could see how someone would be skeptical at that kind of accuracy. 1/2 MOA is very hard to get at 100 yards; I can't even shoot that (yet). However, going off of my main topic, I really just wondered if the AR-15, as a rifle, could get that kind of accuracy. Or better put could a good shooter produce that kind of grouping with a basic AR rifle. From what I gather here it does seem possible to get that kind of accuracy though. On that same subject (kind of) what do you guys think I could produce with my rifle at 500 yards. I have a newer S&W M&P15or with a free-floated barrel. I've heard the S&Ws are pretty accurate with the stock barrels since they're Thompson/Center (S&W owned). I know it mostly depends on me as the shooter but again I'm wondering about the equipment not me. I can practice to make myself better, but I can't magically make my rifle more accurate without replacing parts. OK... As a piece of hardware technically an AR can definitely be Sub-MOA accurate... With the right ammo, the right conditions and the right shooter. The platform is proven reliable. Now, that said... becoming intimate with your particular weapon is paramount. For instance, my brother has a Remington model 1917 WWI era rifle that has been sporterized probably since the 50's. I bought it for him about 25 years ago as a gift for helping me with some painting I had to do. It cost $100.00 and has been his favorite rifle ever! He knows that rifle so well that with open sights he can hit a gallon milk jug at 500yds... repeatedly... and off-hand! He throws that rifle up to his shoulder and just lets it fly! He'll miss with the first one but after seeing where it hits he makes the adjustment and you can bet your ass the next shot will be a hit! Learn your rifle, learn to read the wind and conditions and practice as much as possible... Oh, and remember... Practice makes "permanent", not "perfect"! Get instruction from a professional so you don't shoot "incorrectly" and develop bad habits that will only frustrate you. End of rant... |
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No, but the way the OP painted him, he's got an attitude about ARs that seems to be based on lack of knowledge. Actively trashing something you don't know anything about is never a good idea, and as I said above, it doesn't make one look particularly intelligent.
Guys, shooting 1 MOA at 500 yards isn't easy. Why all the speculation about this coworker? The guy may not be aware of the accuracy potential of the AR, but that doesn't mean he has an arsenal of safe queens and just blazes with his Desert Eagle. I did try to paint a better picture of this individual than your post suggests-that he has a lot of guns but doesn't get to shoot all of them much, thus he lacks breadth of experience. I don't want to come across as jumping on the guy for anything but ragging on ARs, apparently without knowing much about them. Note that the OP says "He despises the black rifle," and that "when ever I tout the AR as a great weapon he always tries to shoot it down." That sort of behavior, if accurately described, indicates to me that the guy has issues, at least with the AR, and that he's not interested in anything that might change his mind. Closed minds are something I can't abide. |
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No, but the way the OP painted him, he's got an attitude about ARs that seems to be based on lack of knowledge. Actively trashing something you don't know anything about is never a good idea, and as I said above, it doesn't make one look particularly intelligent.
Guys, shooting 1 MOA at 500 yards isn't easy. Why all the speculation about this coworker? The guy may not be aware of the accuracy potential of the AR, but that doesn't mean he has an arsenal of safe queens and just blazes with his Desert Eagle. I did try to paint a better picture of this individual than your post suggests-that he has a lot of guns but doesn't get to shoot all of them much, thus he lacks breadth of experience. I don't want to come across as jumping on the guy for anything but ragging on ARs, apparently without knowing much about them. Note that the OP says "He despises the black rifle," and that "when ever I tout the AR as a great weapon he always tries to shoot it down." That sort of behavior, if accurately described, indicates to me that the guy has issues, at least with the AR, and that he's not interested in anything that might change his mind. Closed minds are something I can't abide. No worries. |
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Furthermore, I don't think an AR can do a 1" group at 100, let alone a 5" at 500, without free-floating AND match ammo. I think even with a free-float tube there'd be no way with M193 or M855
I have a RRA factory standard A4 with an EOTech mounted on it. I took it out a couple of weeks ago to check my zero. It put 5 rounds into a 1- 1/2 inch group at 200 yards. The ammo was ADCOM M855. |
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Furthermore, I don't think an AR can do a 1" group at 100, let alone a 5" at 500, without free-floating AND match ammo. I think even with a free-float tube there'd be no way with M193 or M855 I have a RRA factory standard A4 with an EOTech mounted on it. I took it out a couple of weeks ago to check my zero. It put 5 rounds into a 1- 1/2 inch group at 200 yards. The ammo was ADCOM M855. Yea... 5 out of the 30 that were all over the target! 
Just messin' with ya! Nice shootin'! |
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This target was shot with 2 witnesses at 405 yards: The 1 MOA grouping you speak of is very possible even with a stock AR. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/DSCN0040.jpg I have to say that is the BEST group I have EVER seen out of a "Stock" AR at 405 yds... So good in fact, I almost have to say...  ... but I'll just say "DAMN GOOD SHOOTIN'!!! "
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This target was shot with 2 witnesses at 405 yards: The 1 MOA grouping you speak of is very possible even with a stock AR. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/DSCN0040.jpg I have to say that is the BEST group I have EVER seen out of a "Stock" AR at 405 yds... So good in fact, I almost have to say... ... but I'll just say "DAMN GOOD SHOOTIN'!!! "
I was one that personally witnessed 308Sako shoot this particular group. He has also shot many additional groups that demonstrate the excellent accuracy potential of AR rifles. I would agree this is certainly the best one I have witnessed. |
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This target was shot with 2 witnesses at 405 yards: The 1 MOA grouping you speak of is very possible even with a stock AR. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/DSCN0040.jpg Damn. That's all. Just "Damn." |
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Usually the ones crapping on an AR's accuracy, or any semi-auto for that matter, is someone who has never shot one. I'd bet he shoots a bolt rifle and never leaves the bench, and never shoots without enough sand bags to dam up a river. It's amazing the amount of crap that gets regurgitated about the AR.
I love those shows about the AMU guys also. Those guys can shoot. |
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This target was shot with 2 witnesses at 405 yards: The 1 MOA grouping you speak of is very possible even with a stock AR. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/DSCN0040.jpg I have to say that is the BEST group I have EVER seen out of a "Stock" AR at 405 yds... So good in fact, I almost have to say... ... but I'll just say "DAMN GOOD SHOOTIN'!!! "
I was one that personally witnessed 308Sako shoot this particular group. He has also shot many additional groups that demonstrate the excellent accuracy potential of AR rifles. I would agree this is certainly the best one I have witnessed. 
~1" ~3/4" at 400 yds? Standard gov't profile 20" AR, non FF handguards? What were the setup and conditions like? Ammo? Benchrest? I am highly skeptical of this, even with your witness. (35 posts?) |
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Usually the ones crapping on an AR's accuracy, or any semi-auto for that matter, is someone who has never shot one. I'd bet he shoots a bolt rifle and never leaves the bench, and never shoots without enough sand bags to dam up a river. It's amazing the amount of crap that gets regurgitated about the AR. I love those shows about the AMU guys also. Those guys can shoot. To shoot a group like the one 308sako shot... You can bet your ass he was rested on something. If not sandbags, then a good bipod with some sort of rear support. maybe just the other hand inder the grip. But it certainly wasn't offhand... Or am I wrong... I took a little offense at this post originally but that's because I think it's coming from someone who doesn't really have a clue about precision shooting... Or snipers for that matter. I can tell you first hand that a sniper uses whatever he has at his disposal to ensure a good "One Shot One Kill". Sandbags, rocks, trees, window ledges... Whatever is available. It's more important to make the shot as easy as possible than just about anything else! |
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This target was shot with 2 witnesses at 405 yards: The 1 MOA grouping you speak of is very possible even with a stock AR. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/DSCN0040.jpg I doubt that the majority of the people here would consider your free-floated, stainless steel barreled AR-15 with an enhanced trigger to be an example of a “stock” AR-15. 
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Quoted: Quoted: This target was shot with 2 witnesses at 405 yards: The 1 MOA grouping you speak of is very possible even with a stock AR. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/DSCN0040.jpg I doubt that the majority of the people here would consider your free-floated, stainless steel barreled AR-15 with an enhanced trigger to be an example of a “stock” AR-15. The rifle is a Colt 6724, 24" 1 in 9 twist SS barrel chamber is 5.56, Limbsaver deresonator not in the factory recomended position. Scope, a Leupold Mark 4 - 16X with a dot sitting on a GG&G riser block in Leupold QRW mounts. Tubb CWS with Tubb CS flat recoil spring. Jewel trigger set light as can be. Please note that no one has said this is a typical group, but rather an exceptional group shot with a Factory barreled AR15. It is possible, that is the point.   |
| I, like the OP, have a coworker. Unlike the OP, my coworker just got back from Iraq and can shoot. His best is a half-dollar sized group at 500m with his Rem 700 LTR. If he can't fit his shots into a 5" circle at 500m with his favorite precision rifle, he can't exactly be qualified to say ARs are inherently inaccurate based on that. |
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Lots of people have long held prejudices against AR-15's. Much of this is based on hearsay it and repeat it stories that took place in the 60's when Vietnam was in full swing and the rifle system was in it's infancy. Mousegun was not a compliment. People complained that "twigs" deflected their shots and caused them to miss. None of the complainers volunteered to stand behind the twigs while people shot at them to prove it. Lots of people were under the impression they didn't have to clean the weapon, then complaints of malfunctions soared. People even accused the rifle of killing more G.I.'s than the Commies did.
Fast forward to now and we have a very reliable, accurate weapon system which really works well. The faster twist rates and even match grade bullets are employed in hostile actions. An USAMTU soldier took third place at the National Championships - Camp Perry, OH at 1000 yards just a couple of years ago. This flys in the face of long held beliefs. Prejudice always dies slowly. Gun owners in general suffer from a rare form of egomania, which exhibits itself on this forum and wherever we meet, that convinces each of us that are views are right, we know them to be true, ergo others must have it wrong. Take a Vietnam vet out shooting sometime, he may change his mind. An old goat shooting a flat top, well scoped match rifle may start a new wave of buying/hoarding. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR15 Distance Accuracy (Page 1 of 2)
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