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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARC MAGS (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 3/27/2009 12:17:40 PM EDT
| I found them at Brownells, talked with the tech guy and he gave the hot info.... Stock #100-004-138 Black ARC MAG ordered 20 |
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What are they? http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/12/10/new-tangodown-arc-ar-15-magazine/ 
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Production mags should be shipping to dealers soon. I am doing T&E on the military and commercial version now. They seem like a very strong and reliable option. They are going to have a translucent version soon. Here are photos I saw OTS.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/3366350132_b52a3ce23d.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3366350010_154670738d.jpg |
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I have no experience with the new Tango Down mags but I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about two piece mags. Looks like something Mr. Murphy will cause to seperate at the most inconvenient time. However, I'm sure Tango Down has done their homework and these mags are a lot tougher than they look. |
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Quick destruction test of 2 polymer magazines that shows the difference between cheap stainless steel (USGI) and expensive chrome silicon (ARC) springs - note that the bond between the two ARC halves did not fail
Closeup of springs: 
7 different magazines crushed up to 3 tons - 1 survivor 2 magazines frozen for 2 hours, then dropped from 6 feet on the feed lips - once, in the case of the PMag, 3 times, in the case of the ARC: 
I just destroyed 8 more magazines, will have more videos available soon. |
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Quick destruction test of 2 polymer magazines that shows the difference between cheap stainless steel (USGI) and expensive chrome silicon (ARC) springs - note that the bond between the two ARC halves did not fail Closeup of springs: http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG 7 different magazines crushed up to 3 tons - 1 survivor 2 magazines frozen for 2 hours, then dropped from 6 feet on the feed lips - once, in the case of the PMag, 3 times, in the case of the ARC: http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/freezer1.jpg I just destroyed 8 more magazines, will have more videos available soon. Just to let everyone know the photos show a very early PMag (prior to several changes in polymer and the MRev version). Current MRev mags survive the frozen test as well as the ARC mag.PMag cold weather drop test With new Polymer (me too) mags coming onto the market, you are going to see allot of people pushing their product against the proven PMag design. Some will no doubt use shady methods to achieve this goal. |
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Quick destruction test of 2 polymer magazines that shows the difference between cheap stainless steel (USGI) and expensive chrome silicon (ARC) springs - note that the bond between the two ARC halves did not fail Closeup of springs: http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG 7 different magazines crushed up to 3 tons - 1 survivor 2 magazines frozen for 2 hours, then dropped from 6 feet on the feed lips - once, in the case of the PMag, 3 times, in the case of the ARC: http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/freezer1.jpg I just destroyed 8 more magazines, will have more videos available soon. Just to let everyone know the photos show a very early PMag (prior to several changes in polymer and the MRev version). Current MRev mags survive the frozen test as well as the ARC mag.PMag cold weather drop test With new Polymer (me too) mags coming onto the market, you are going to see allot of people pushing their product against the proven PMag design. Some will no doubt use shady methods to achieve this goal. It was April 08 production...not "very early", you'd had the mag out for a year plus before that. What date should I look for? edit: I just ordered 3 from Rainier...hopefully they're the latest production model. |
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I bought my TangoDown ARC Mags at Harris Tactical Online and they are shipping 3/30. Yeah!
Based on the links above, I am sold 100%. |
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Quick destruction test of 2 polymer magazines that shows the difference between cheap stainless steel (USGI) and expensive chrome silicon (ARC) springs - note that the bond between the two ARC halves did not fail Closeup of springs: http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG 7 different magazines crushed up to 3 tons - 1 survivor 2 magazines frozen for 2 hours, then dropped from 6 feet on the feed lips - once, in the case of the PMag, 3 times, in the case of the ARC: http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/freezer1.jpg I just destroyed 8 more magazines, will have more videos available soon. Great tests!! Thank you for doing those. Looks to be one tough magazine. |
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Magpul,
You may want to consider getting "the Latest and Greatest" P-Mag to 87GN, so he can re-do his testing. I and others would like to see the latest results.. LS Quoted:
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Quick destruction test of 2 polymer magazines that shows the difference between cheap stainless steel (USGI) and expensive chrome silicon (ARC) springs - note that the bond between the two ARC halves did not fail Closeup of springs: http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG 7 different magazines crushed up to 3 tons - 1 survivor 2 magazines frozen for 2 hours, then dropped from 6 feet on the feed lips - once, in the case of the PMag, 3 times, in the case of the ARC: http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/freezer1.jpg I just destroyed 8 more magazines, will have more videos available soon. Just to let everyone know the photos show a very early PMag (prior to several changes in polymer and the MRev version). Current MRev mags survive the frozen test as well as the ARC mag.PMag cold weather drop test With new Polymer (me too) mags coming onto the market, you are going to see allot of people pushing their product against the proven PMag design. Some will no doubt use shady methods to achieve this goal. |
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Ok, I'll add my two cents here. While videos are interesting to see, they rarely prove anything. For example, our original 'PMAG versus a Chevy truck' video was done purely as a fun way to show that the PMAG is a pretty tough magazine. Hardly scientific though...
The spring crush test above doesn't really enlighten us on much of anything. Quality CS springs ARE nice but, then again, so are quality stainless. Stainless is more corrosion resistant too and that's why we use them in the PMAG (the entire package can survive a 500 hour salt spray test). I don't know of even one person that has ever had a problem with the spring in their PMAG. Besides, if you ever do (or simply just want to use another type of spring) all you have to do is swap them out. Something you CANNOT do with the ARC mag... |
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Ok, I'll add my two cents here. While videos are interesting to see, they rarely prove anything. For example, our original 'PMAG versus a Chevy truck' video was done purely as a fun way to show that the PMAG is a pretty tough magazine. Hardly scientific though... The spring crush test above doesn't really enlighten us on much of anything. Quality CS springs ARE nice but, then again, so are quality stainless. Stainless is more corrosion resistant too and that's why we use them in the PMAG (the entire package can survive a 500 hour salt spray test). I don't know of even one person that has ever had a problem with the spring in their PMAG. Besides, if you ever do (or simply just want to use another type of spring) all you have to do is swap them out. Something you CANNOT do with the ARC mag... It was fun to watch, and it sold you guys a gazillion magazines. I was hoping they'd survive the semi test, that would've been cool, unfortunately neither mag did. I'm trying to be as honest as I can possibly be - otherwise I wouldn't have shown a destroyed ARC mag, or would have swapped in a body double, or something like that. I am not an independent test lab, and am not representing myself as such. But see here - I gave the nod to the LT mount I paid for vs. the ADM mount I was given by its co-designer - I am not here to mislead anyone. What I have found the press videos to be very useful for is testing weld, body, floorplate, and follower strength on aluminum and steel mags. The cheaper mags have cheaper welds and tend to break WAY before the more expensive mags. By the way, kudos on your latest generation follower, it's exceptionally impressive with regard to crush resistance. Certainly far better than another follower which looks quite similar to yours but shall not be named... OH, AFAIK, ARC mag springs are moly coated for corrosion resistance. |
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Since I work in a marine environment, I prefer the stainless springs. I was a bit surprised when TD told me they use a CS spring. They didn't mention it was moly coated. Maybe the new generation of coatings is good enough to survive hard use. I was told that back in the 80s, some people tested a lot of springs, and a lot of coatings, and they found that moly coated CS springs had excellent corrosion resistance. |
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I fail to see how your spring test is significant. If the body was flattened... it doesn't matter what the spring is like.... the magazine is useless. Under normal conditions, or even torture tests that leave the body intact, the spring is not going to do that. |
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I fail to see how your spring test is significant. If the body was flattened... it doesn't matter what the spring is like.... the magazine is useless. Under normal conditions, or even torture tests that leave the body intact, the spring is not going to do that. To me it is interesting to know that if the body is completely crushed in some tragic industrial accident, I can use the spring in a USGI mag if I want. Speaks volumes about how long the spring would last, IMHO. Also, even if the mag is intact after a big hit, the spring inside may indeed take a set as seen. This causes excess friction against the mag body and results in random malfunctions with some of the mags I tried. |
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ARC drop test, cold
Yes, I know. No freezer shot, no temp gauge. No yardstick. Well, feel free to duplicate the test on your own... |
| In the drop tests I did yesterday, the ARC mags did not pop loose any rounds. All other mags I've drop tested have had at least 1 round pop loose. I think the fact that the ARC mags hold the rounds securely is a testament to how rigid and strong the mag body is. |
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In the drop tests I did yesterday, the ARC mags did not pop loose any rounds. All other mags I've drop tested have had at least 1 round pop loose. I think the fact that the ARC mags hold the rounds securely is a testament to how rigid and strong the mag body is. Well, it was cold, really cold. No rounds came out on the first or second drop, but they did on most of 3 through 8. At standard temperature, no rounds popped out in any of my impromptu tests. |
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There was another plastic mag discussed here a while back, sort of had an X pattern on the sides. Anybody recall it? That would be the MSAR XM30, which is shipping now and should be available through major distributors. Solid color mags = $15, translucent = $20. |
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Well...I have 20 PMags and 20 TD ARC's on order so I will have the best Mags on the Market. My USGI Metal mags are collecting dust even though the followers are MagPul Anti-Tilt. It should be a requirement for all metal USGI Mags to have the ant-tilt follower. The reliability increases 3-fold.
I doubt that my Mags will ever freeze, burn up in the Sahara or get run over by a Mack Truck but it's nice to know they have been tested and are tough. Cheers to the innovators in the Industry who always look to improve what we currently have in our Weapons. 
Set the Standard! |
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I fail to see how your spring test is significant. If the body was flattened... it doesn't matter what the spring is like.... the magazine is useless. Under normal conditions, or even torture tests that leave the body intact, the spring is not going to do that. To me it is interesting to know that if the body is completely crushed in some tragic industrial accident, I can use the spring in a USGI mag if I want. Speaks volumes about how long the spring would last, IMHO. Also, even if the mag is intact after a big hit, the spring inside may indeed take a set as seen. This causes excess friction against the mag body and results in random malfunctions with some of the mags I tried. I'll say the same thing about the ARC as I've always said about the P-mags, the only tests that really matter are the tests that simulate what a magazine will reasonably be expected to endure in an operational environment. Showing a magazine getting run over by a huge truck is neat, but It's just not very relevant to what a magazine will face real world, in the same spirit, I don't really care if a spring is reusable after being run over by a truck, it's just doesn't register on my "what if" meter. Mags are a compromise of performance and cost, that is to say, value. Is the ARC at $24.99 that much more valuable than a P-mag at $14.99? Is either much more valuable than a quality USGI at $9.99? We all love to see torture tests, but whether you're talking about equipping a fighting force, or a solitary individual, you need to keep value in mind, every dollar not spent on unnecessarily tough magazines is another dollar to put towards training, which is the one thing that actually and demonstrably pays HUGE dividends in the real world. |
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There was another plastic mag discussed here a while back, sort of had an X pattern on the sides. Anybody recall it? That would be the MSAR XM30, which is shipping now and should be available through major distributors. Solid color mags = $15, translucent = $20. If they've unlocked the secret of a translucent polymer magazine that has translucent polymer feedlips, and can withstand actual use, I'll buy them... Quoted:
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I fail to see how your spring test is significant. If the body was flattened... it doesn't matter what the spring is like.... the magazine is useless. Under normal conditions, or even torture tests that leave the body intact, the spring is not going to do that. To me it is interesting to know that if the body is completely crushed in some tragic industrial accident, I can use the spring in a USGI mag if I want. Speaks volumes about how long the spring would last, IMHO. Also, even if the mag is intact after a big hit, the spring inside may indeed take a set as seen. This causes excess friction against the mag body and results in random malfunctions with some of the mags I tried. I'll say the same thing about the ARC as I've always said about the P-mags, the only tests that really matter are the tests that simulate what a magazine will reasonably be expected to endure in an operational environment. Showing a magazine getting run over by a huge truck is neat, but It's just not very relevant to what a magazine will face real world, in the same spirit, I don't really care if a spring is reusable after being run over by a truck, it's just doesn't register on my "what if" meter. Mags are a compromise of performance and cost, that is to say, value. Is the ARC at $24.99 that much more valuable than a P-mag at $14.99? Is either much more valuable than a quality USGI at $9.99? We all love to see torture tests, but whether you're talking about equipping a fighting force, or a solitary individual, you need to keep value in mind, every dollar not spent on unnecessarily tough magazines is another dollar to put towards training, which is the one thing that actually and demonstrably pays HUGE dividends in the real world. You might be interested in the drop test, especially the cold drop test. That's very relevant to the military. The aluminum USGI mags fail on the first drop (at any temperature). Oh, and the US Military is actively seeking a replacement for the USGI magazine. |
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If they've unlocked the secret of a translucent polymer magazine that has translucent polymer feedlips, and can withstand actual use, I'll buy them.. Why not just go with a Lancer or the ARC translucent when it is available? I have MSAR T&E mags inbound and I am very interested to see how well their translucent mag holds up. You are right about the feed lips being the key to success on a translucent mag. I think the Lancer and and Tango Down approach both tackle the issue well. |
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If they've unlocked the secret of a translucent polymer magazine that has translucent polymer feedlips, and can withstand actual use, I'll buy them.. Why not just go with a Lancer or the ARC translucent when it is available? I have MSAR T&E mags inbound and I am very interested to see how well their translucent mag holds up. You are right about the feed lips being the key to success on a translucent mag. I think the Lancer and and Tango Down approach both tackle the issue well. Oh, I have some Lancers, but I'd like to mess with translucent feed lips that can handle abuse (such as being dropped or shoved in a magwell), that's all. |
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There was another plastic mag discussed here a while back, sort of had an X pattern on the sides. Anybody recall it? That would be the MSAR XM30, which is shipping now and should be available through major distributors. Solid color mags = $15, translucent = $20. If they've unlocked the secret of a translucent polymer magazine that has translucent polymer feedlips, and can withstand actual use, I'll buy them... Quoted:
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I fail to see how your spring test is significant. If the body was flattened... it doesn't matter what the spring is like.... the magazine is useless. Under normal conditions, or even torture tests that leave the body intact, the spring is not going to do that. To me it is interesting to know that if the body is completely crushed in some tragic industrial accident, I can use the spring in a USGI mag if I want. Speaks volumes about how long the spring would last, IMHO. Also, even if the mag is intact after a big hit, the spring inside may indeed take a set as seen. This causes excess friction against the mag body and results in random malfunctions with some of the mags I tried. I'll say the same thing about the ARC as I've always said about the P-mags, the only tests that really matter are the tests that simulate what a magazine will reasonably be expected to endure in an operational environment. Showing a magazine getting run over by a huge truck is neat, but It's just not very relevant to what a magazine will face real world, in the same spirit, I don't really care if a spring is reusable after being run over by a truck, it's just doesn't register on my "what if" meter. Mags are a compromise of performance and cost, that is to say, value. Is the ARC at $24.99 that much more valuable than a P-mag at $14.99? Is either much more valuable than a quality USGI at $9.99? We all love to see torture tests, but whether you're talking about equipping a fighting force, or a solitary individual, you need to keep value in mind, every dollar not spent on unnecessarily tough magazines is another dollar to put towards training, which is the one thing that actually and demonstrably pays HUGE dividends in the real world. You might be interested in the drop test, especially the cold drop test. That's very relevant to the military. The aluminum USGI mags fail on the first drop (at any temperature). Oh, and the US Military is actively seeking a replacement for the USGI magazine. I'm very interested in the results of the drop tests, they are obviously relevant to real world reliability. As for what elements of the military are or are not seeking a replacement for, there are probably some people out there actively seeking a replacement for the standard issue beanie skull cap, because the current item is not thick enough to insulate in arctic environs. My point being that there is always someone, somewhere in the military looking to replace everything they have, they really don't care because it's not their money that their spending anyway. |
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I'm very interested in the results of the drop tests, they are obviously relevant to real world reliability. As for what elements of the military are or are not seeking a replacement for, there are probably some people out there actively seeking a replacement for the standard issue beanie skull cap, because the current item is not thick enough to insulate in arctic environs. My point being that there is always someone, somewhere in the military looking to replace everything they have, they really don't care because it's not their money that their spending anyway. I'm not talking about 3 guys in a reserve motor T unit wanting better socks.. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006smallarms/foltz.pdf |
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I bought my TangoDown ARC Mags at http://www.HarrisTacticalOnline.com and they are shipping 3/30. Yeah! Based on the links above, I am sold 100%. Hmmm, $27 Pmags, low post count, sounds like a shill post................ 
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My friend just pointed out that if you buy one of these and don't like it you still have the ability to play tic-tac-toe on the body.  Man that would be good in the sandbox......get bored play a little tic tac toe with some 5.56 rounds. Stand them up....someone can play with penetrator rounds while the other uses tracers lol. 
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I was making another Brownells order anyway, so I threw three in my cart. I'll try them out and see if I like them. If I do, I'll probably buy a lot more. That's exactly what I did with PMAGs when they came out. Bought 3, 'tested' them for a few months, then bought a bunch more after being happy with the results.
I certainly don't 'need' any more mags, but what the heck.
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I was making another Brownells order anyway, so I threw three in my cart. I'll try them out and see if I like them. If I do, I'll probably buy a lot more. That's exactly what I did with PMAGs when they came out. Bought 3, 'tested' them for a few months, then bought a bunch more after being happy with the results. I certainly don't 'need' any more mags, but what the heck.
I just did the same thing. Did you also notice Brownells has 30 rd windowed PMags in stock. And they have been in stock for the last few days. Heck if I dont like the TD mags someone will buy them on the EE for $32 each shipped! hahaha |
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I was making another Brownells order anyway, so I threw three in my cart. I'll try them out and see if I like them. If I do, I'll probably buy a lot more. That's exactly what I did with PMAGs when they came out. Bought 3, 'tested' them for a few months, then bought a bunch more after being happy with the results. I certainly don't 'need' any more mags, but what the heck.
I just did the same thing. Did you also notice Brownells has 30 rd windowed PMags in stock. And they have been in stock for the last few days. Heck if I dont like the TD mags someone will buy them on the EE for $32 each shipped! hahaha +1 I will include one on my next Brownells order. I can get them for the discounted price so if I don't like it I'm sure it will make a great holiday gift for one of my Polymermag buddies. 
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Its about time you guys put Brownells back out of stock on PMags. I knew it wouldnt take long. Thats why its the 1st time I mentioned it above.
The buyer alerts posted in the AR discussions keep the EE wores in line to make boat loads of money  .
Must be nice to rest knowing you've just ripped your fellow ARFcommers off. |
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Its about time you guys put Brownells back out of stock on PMags. I knew it wouldnt take long. Thats why its the 1st time I mentioned it above. The buyer alerts posted in the AR discussions keep the EE wores in line to make boat loads of money .
Must be nice to rest knowing you've just ripped your fellow ARFcommers off. What in the hell are you babbling about? 
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Its about time you guys put Brownells back out of stock on PMags. I knew it wouldnt take long. Thats why its the 1st time I mentioned it above. The buyer alerts posted in the AR discussions keep the EE wores in line to make boat loads of money .
Must be nice to rest knowing you've just ripped your fellow ARFcommers off. Yeah. Guys are rolling in dough selling windowed Pmags for $19.
Plenty of our dealers have Pmags in stock at MSRP, but they're not in the proper colors for the Vogue crowd. "Oooohh! I can't show up at the range with foliage mags! They clash with my coyote (it's called fucking "brown") furniture!!" The other girls operators will laugh! AND they're not the M version! They're soooo last year" Sorry mods. |
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Its about time you guys put Brownells back out of stock on PMags. I knew it wouldnt take long. Thats why its the 1st time I mentioned it above. The buyer alerts posted in the AR discussions keep the EE wores in line to make boat loads of money .
Must be nice to rest knowing you've just ripped your fellow ARFcommers off. What in the hell are you babbling about? What I'm babbling about is that, I mentioned that I added 2 ARC mags to my Brownells cart to try them out. You know I took the plunge on these expensive mags, to maybe give feedback of how I like them. At 7:17pm I also mentioned that windowed P-Mags were in stock at Brownells and they in fact had been in stock for about 4 days. They are $16 at dealer / discounted price. At 10:06 they were back out of stock. I'm sure you can expect to see them on the EE soon. The EE wores comment was also (not just talking about mags) directed to the individuals buying out BCM products and putting them on the EE with an at least $100 markup in some cases. At one time eBay was a great place to shop for deals, as was the EE...at one time. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARC MAGS (Page 1 of 3)
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