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Posted: 2/27/2008 4:35:11 PM EDT
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I have a question for you guys, no matter what forum I look at everybody who has done serious shooting at a class/course says they see like 60-85% of the ar's there break down some minor but many major. But these "miracle" assault weapons that aren't American are the best thing since sliced bread, how are ar's compared to these new miraculous weapons as far as reliability especially with high round counts, and I don't recall them being such a bear to clean when I was in the Military like they like to say as well. Thanks jtcannonball |
| I put 1200 round of shit russian ammo through my M&P15T. This thing was dirtier than a whore in church. Not a single failure, NOTHING! It was a bitch to clean but I expected that after not cleaning it over 4 months. However, everything breaks...take a look at Marie Carey...she was rode hard and eventually broke down. Keep it clean, don't buy junk and it will shoot fine. After years in the army, years of shooting my own AR, never broke a single part. I'm sure something will go at some point but that's expected, things break. If someone wants an AK to bury in the mud, pull out and shoot then go get one for $300, personally I find them boring to shoot but not bad to have in the closet if the SHTF. |
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Reliabilty depends on how good the mags are and the knowledge of the end user to keep it running.Anything is only as reliable as the person using it..even with that theres still murphys law that something will break or fail when least expected.. but knowledge of the ARs stregnths and weaknesses and maintinence needs and different environments will go a long way in ensuring the best reliabilty...the type of compoenets used in the rifle will also have an effect.You get what you pay for so go quality and even with that the operator must do his or her part.You can have the best weapon in the world and if you dont have the skills,knowledge and parts to keep it running the best is worth nothing. In the end it comes down to the end user and the skills of that individual to keep up with their weapon.You look out for the things you stake your life on..take care of them and they will take care of you. |
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Don't believe the hype. There a a lot of good manufacturers out there. They build reliable weapons. Take care of your gear and your gear will take care of you. Buy a rifle, break it in following manufacturers recommendations. Clean it, run what ever ammo you want through it and see what it likes and what it doesn't. I have over 4000 rounds through my Bushmaster. Never a failure. No fail to feed, fail to fire or fail to eject. I have run everything through it from crap wolf to matchgrade heavy target loads. I pull the trigger, it goes bang. Shoot, clean, repeat. |
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Buy a rifle and have a gas piston installed, if you don't like direct impingement. If you do, that is ok too. Figure out, which one will suit your needs and use. Look for the deal rifle. Gun shops, Gun broker.com, AR15.com, and all of the manufacturers websites, etc. The American black rifle with the option of having a gas piston, that works cleaner and helps with reliability; are great selling points. That is the "boutique rifle armchair commandos" bias against the ar15. The black rifle is versatile. A person can change the upper for many reasons. Different caliber, barrel lengths, actual gas operations (DI or Piston), sights, and handguards, etc. Same goes for the lower (types of stocks, trigger groups, color, etc). I don't know about modular, but today a person can build a damn good ar15 with minimal skills and experience, compared to what I used in the 70's military. With manufacturers going to different calibers (I am not a fan of the 5.56 round), I am looking at a build in 7.62x39 or 6.5grendel with a gas piston, probably an M-4 configuration of sorts. I am coming back to the ar15, as long as it has a gas piston. I am spoiled, sorry. From what I have read about the various ar15 gas piston modifications, there is very little loss of accuracy, if any. Uncle Sam should look at the gas piston idea too. I don't think that the American black rifle will ever go away. It just keeps improving with modern redesigning, thanks to free enterprise and American ingenuity. |
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Despite what some people say and will forever be saying, the AR15 is NOT the least bit unreliable. It is EXTREMELY reliable for any firearm. It does not need a piston and it does not need to be clean to run. I have had 3 ARs in the last 6 years and not a single one has had a malfunction that wasn't magazine related. My Bushmaster went 15,000 rounds with NO malfunctions before the bolt broke. It was cracked and still ran like a champ. Also was rarely cleaned. I went over 4000 rounds of Wolf with no cleaning and just a few squirts of CLP and it still never malfunctioned. |
I'm just some dumbass that posts on the intarweb, so take that for what it's worth. 1. If you want an AR for weekend plinking, etc, there are many manufs that will serve you well. 2. If you want an AR that will be the most reliable for a course, etc, there are a few manufs that will serve you well. I'm in example #2, and I own a Colt. EDIT: Running 3K rounds through your rifle in a year is different than running 3K rounds through your rifle in 5 days. And I'm not here to debate this; you either believe me, or not. Either is cool with me.  2nd EDIT: Good info here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=360169&page=1 |
I will be shooting more than 3k a year, I plan on reloading and purchasing large amounts and shooting a lot. I am almost done with college and will be going into law enforcement and I don't want to have to buy another later on if I'm not happy with the one I am purchasing soon. |
| If that many people you shoot with complain about their ARs, I have to question who you're shooting with. People like to blame the AR weapon system for issues with mags, ammo, and/or user induced malfunctions. No mechanical device will continue to function 100 percent without the proper maintenance. Purchase a quality AR along with good mags and ammo. Take care of it and it will take care of you. |
| Over half of the "I had this" or "I had that" break at a class or so and so is complete BS. As a matter of fact, I think a great portion of the people on this board, based on the foolish posts, don't even own an AR let alone know how to shoot or clean it. Buy one from a good quality maker & buy with confidence.... |
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I have been running classes for a long time now, and i will state that if you start with a good gun, ensure that the extractor is good, feed it good ammo in good magazines and keep it well lubed it will work as advertised. Buy crappy guns, don't maintain them, use poor magazines and ammo and don't lube them, and you will have a problem. |
+1 |
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My 1998/99 Factory Bushmaster A1 Carbine 14.7hbar Ran 100% SOLD HEAVY ASS BARREL  Home Made A1 Bushy 20hbar after going Back to get a burr taken off ran 100% SOLD IT  MY GO TO CARBINE LMT Defender 2000 M4 14.5 = RUNS 100% BACK UP CARBINE Bushmaster lower w/ VLTOR & LMT M4 14.5 UPPER = RUNS 100% AMMO Black Hills Blue box 75gr. and 77gr OTM M855 & M193 NEVER ANY PD MARKED AMMO MAGS Colt 20rounders with the Ole Metal Followers USGI 30 rounders Parson,Adventure line,Okay,etc Thermolds 30 USGI Clean Kit ( one of my favorites) B.F. CLP Brake Cleaner Non Chlorinated Only This system has worked well for me |
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I have two AR-15's, one is a Rock River Car-A4 and the other is an M-16A1 clone (colt upper half). I have never had anything break or otherwise fail on me. I have also been on prarie dog hunts shooting 700 rounds through an AR ( RRA 24 inch Varmint) in a single day with no problems, even in dusty West Texas, without a cleaning. The AR-15 is a good weapons system that is well thought out and will work if you take care of it. Keep the locking lugs on the bolt and the barrel face clean and you will be gtg. |
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OK. I will do what I can to give you what information I have. It may make things easier and it may make things harder for you. It's just information! I don't enjoy getting into debates about these things, and I don't say I know everything about the subject, but what I do know is 1st hand knowledge. Not something I read or heard. I am old enough to have been issues M-16s, and later, the M-16A1. I didn't like either one of them back then, but the A1 had a few improvements. I have used M-16A2s and AR-15A2s, A3s and lots of ARs in the most modern styles, but none of these variants in combat. The earliest M-16s were not reliable, would gall the metal badly between the bolt carrier and the upper receiver. The finish was just some sort of thing gray coating, and it would rub off fairly easily. The early rifles were beset with problems with both dirty ammo and lack of either good lube of good metal. I am unsure with, but I suspect both. I can tell you that all the M-16s and some of the M-16A1s were VERY used, and would jam enough to cause me to dislike them to my very core. I didn't give the AR system "another chance" for many years. In the early 90s I had an M-16A2 for 7 months. It was reliable, but I did have opportunity to clean it every day. I never had to fight with it. With the M-16s and some of the A1s I did not have the opportunity to clean as often as I needed to. So I may be comparing apples to oranges here. As I said, I am passing information, but not solid conclusions here. The A2 I used was very accurate and it worked well enough that I can only remember one jam ever. A few years after that I had a friend come to my home with 2 ARs, and we went prairie dog hunting for 6 days. When we were all finished I think he’d killed more dogs then I had. I was amazed. So then I gave the AR “another chance”. The new ones are made of something different than the old one were, or perhaps they have the new hard coating on them and that’s what’s making the difference. But my AR’s don’t give me any trouble now. I did learn the “trick” on the A2, that if I squirt a bit of lube into one of the exhaust holes in the bolt carrier about every 300-400 rounds, the rifle rust runs and runs. The problem I saw with other a2s in the 90s was that the sand would eat them up on the inside if you didn’t keep them clean and keep the dust covers shut as much as possible. But I kept mine clean and it worked. Now I have never used a piston operated AR, but I have used A LOT of FALs and they work extremely well. I have no doubt that the system would work on the AR too, but I have to say, in my experience with the A2s and A3s, the fouling is NOT the problem everyone says it is. The sand is the problem, and the gas piston ARs are no different than the Stoner System ARs in that regard. It’s still a “steel on Aluminum” system. So I can’t see fit to spend a bunch of extra money on a piston system AR, and give up the wonderful free float tubes/ barrel system--- that makes my AR so accurate . I never shoot factory ammo in my personal rifles, and I am a bit of an accuracy fanatic, so I have FF tubes on mine, and if I were to put a gas piston on it, I think I would have something that was as accurate as an FN-FAL, but no better, and maybe not as reliable. The FN is more powerful too. (FN-FALs are “steel on steel, and they work very well in sand. Not as well as the AK, but better then the AR, in my experience) That being the case, if I wanted a piston system, I would still go to a good FAL and get the reliability and the power as a bonus. But that’s my take on things. I am not the “last word” on the subject, but that’s how I see things. |
Don't know about "best", but I have always had great reliability from Okays - and that's the only brand I buy. JOMX2 is selling Okays, and he ships fast and the mags are exactly as advertised: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=24&t=429460 |
+1 and if you don't like it give it to me. |
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