AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/17/2012 6:27:33 AM EDT
|
I just did a quick google search for ar-15 vice blocks, as I'm starting to look into the tools I need to get for my build that I'm planning. I've seen the "clam shell" type that companies like Brownells makes/sells, that clamp over the upper receiver. What I hadn't seen until today was this type.
http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Receiver-Takedown-Gunsmith-Action/dp/B0063WTIVG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1329492003&sr=8-7 The upper receiver mounts to it like it would to the lower receiver. Has anyone used one of these? Would you consider it safe to use to install/remove the barrel? I'm somewhat leery of the "ears" of the upper receiver breaking or at minimum distorting. Having never actually worked with an upper, I don't know just how rugged they are. I'd love to go this route because then I could just make one rather than buying something, which is always better on my wallet (I have access to scrap, and machines at work). |
| I have heard people say that the ears are not intended to take the torque, but I've never seen a report of an upper actually being damaged. I'm in the position of needing a block that will handle both right and left-handed uppers, and this looked like a good option. |
|
Quoted:
I just did a quick google search for ar-15 vice blocks, as I'm starting to look into the tools I need to get for my build that I'm planning. I've seen the "clam shell" type that companies like Brownells makes/sells, that clamp over the upper receiver. What I hadn't seen until today was this type. http://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Receiver-Takedown-Gunsmith-Action/dp/B0063WTIVG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1329492003&sr=8-7 The upper receiver mounts to it like it would to the lower receiver. Has anyone used one of these? Would you consider it safe to use to install/remove the barrel? I'm somewhat leery of the "ears" of the upper receiver breaking or at minimum distorting. Having never actually worked with an upper, I don't know just how rugged they are. I'd love to go this route because then I could just make one rather than buying something, which is always better on my wallet (I have access to scrap, and machines at work). Yeah, those were popularized by DPMS and their "The Claw".....a play on their Panther mascot. I personally would not use one above 40 ft lbs. if at all. There are pics around here somewhere of a receiver with the lugs torn off after a ride on "The Claw". The clamshell + insert and the USGI method of restraining the barrel in Barrel Vise Jaw Blocks are the safest ways to do barrel work on the AR platform. |
|
Quoted:
Fulton Armory has the clam shell upper and lower combo for $39. That's what I use. Or you can just get the clam shell and upper insert for $25. http://www.fulton-armory.com/images/products/detail/_DSC1353.JPG That's the best price I've heard of/seen. That's great. I'll most likely go that route instead. I knew that thing was too good to be true. |
|
Quoted:
no. You need the insert that goes into the body of the receiver as well like the DPMS block. having it being held in by the take down points without extra support inside the body itself is no good. http://www.dpmsinc.com/@ssets/images/technology/large/panther_claw.jpg Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? That's not out of the question, though the clamp set in the post below may be the better route for me. I don't know that it's entirely worth my time to make something like that just to save $40. I'll give it some thought, though. |
|
Quoted:
Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? Ultimately, the lugs. I have seen a 308AR adaptation of this device that utilizes a top hat and the whole assembly is turned sideways in the vise. This approach would take the hurt off those lugs as the receiver is now supported top and bottom. |
|
Quoted:
Keep in mind the 'Clam-Shell' will not work on some BILLET uppers as they are machined differently on the sides than a mil-spec type receiver.. 
Then you would need to use the DPMS zytel/nylon 'block' with the insert and just go easy.. I might actually be able to make the DPMS style mount. it's just a matter of time, and having a receiver in my hands to measure. |
|
Quoted:
Keep in mind the 'Clam-Shell' will not work on some BILLET uppers as they are machined differently on the sides than a mil-spec type receiver..
Then you would need to use the DPMS zytel/nylon 'block' with the insert and just go easy. Or the USGI method of restraining the barrel only. It's UHMW. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? Ultimately, the lugs. I have seen a 308AR adaptation of this device that utilizes a top hat and the whole assembly is turned sideways in the vise. This approach would take the hurt off those lugs as the receiver is now supported top and bottom. I think I follow you. The receiver would still engage at the take down pins (or wouldn't have to, actually), and then a 2nd piece would sit "on top" and hold it that way. That's feasible too. My biggest hang-up right now is the need to buy specialized tools for something I only plan (for now) on doing once. If I can make something, it just makes it more fun, and easier on the wallet (and keeps the wife off my back). |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Keep in mind the 'Clam-Shell' will not work on some BILLET uppers as they are machined differently on the sides than a mil-spec type receiver..
Then you would need to use the DPMS zytel/nylon 'block' with the insert and just go easy. Or the USGI method of restraining the barrel only. It's UHMW. I can see that causing issues with the barrel spinning in the vice/clamp, especially when it's being torqued like that. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? Ultimately, the lugs. I have seen a 308AR adaptation of this device that utilizes a top hat and the whole assembly is turned sideways in the vise. This approach would take the hurt off those lugs as the receiver is now supported top and bottom. I think I follow you. The receiver would still engage at the take down pins (or wouldn't have to, actually), and then a 2nd piece would sit "on top" and hold it that way. That's feasible too. My biggest hang-up right now is the need to buy specialized tools for something I only plan (for now) on doing once. If I can make something, it just makes it more fun, and easier on the wallet (and keeps the wife off my back). The cheapest and safest way is to utilize the USGI method. You can even make your own barrel adapters for your vice out of wood and line with leather or slit garden hose. Aluminum barrel jaws are about $15.00 for a set. I'll post s pic from the M16/M4 manual so you get the idea. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Keep in mind the 'Clam-Shell' will not work on some BILLET uppers as they are machined differently on the sides than a mil-spec type receiver..
Then you would need to use the DPMS zytel/nylon 'block' with the insert and just go easy. Or the USGI method of restraining the barrel only. It's UHMW. I can see that causing issues with the barrel spinning in the vice/clamp, especially when it's being torqued like that. Weapons built "torqued like that" make it possible you you and I to type this friendly banter. 
Also, keep in mind that the finest rifles in this world are held in barrel restraints. And will be long after you and I are gone. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? Ultimately, the lugs. I have seen a 308AR adaptation of this device that utilizes a top hat and the whole assembly is turned sideways in the vise. This approach would take the hurt off those lugs as the receiver is now supported top and bottom. I think I follow you. The receiver would still engage at the take down pins (or wouldn't have to, actually), and then a 2nd piece would sit "on top" and hold it that way. That's feasible too. My biggest hang-up right now is the need to buy specialized tools for something I only plan (for now) on doing once. If I can make something, it just makes it more fun, and easier on the wallet (and keeps the wife off my back). The cheapest and safest way is to utilize the USGI method. You can even make your own barrel adapters for your vice out of wood and line with leather or slit garden hose. Aluminum barrel jaws are about $15.00 for a set. I'll post s pic from the M16/M4 manual so you get the idea. That makes perfect sense. Call it near-sited. I never thought to use something as a buffer between the vise/block and the barrel. Touche. And the block I originally posted could still be utilized for just holding the receiver, should it be needed. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? Ultimately, the lugs. I have seen a 308AR adaptation of this device that utilizes a top hat and the whole assembly is turned sideways in the vise. This approach would take the hurt off those lugs as the receiver is now supported top and bottom. I think I follow you. The receiver would still engage at the take down pins (or wouldn't have to, actually), and then a 2nd piece would sit "on top" and hold it that way. That's feasible too. My biggest hang-up right now is the need to buy specialized tools for something I only plan (for now) on doing once. If I can make something, it just makes it more fun, and easier on the wallet (and keeps the wife off my back). The cheapest and safest way is to utilize the USGI method. You can even make your own barrel adapters for your vice out of wood and line with leather or slit garden hose. Aluminum barrel jaws are about $15.00 for a set. I'll post s pic from the M16/M4 manual so you get the idea. That makes perfect sense. Call it near-sited. I never thought to use something as a buffer between the vise/block and the barrel. Touche. And the block I originally posted could still be utilized for just holding the receiver, should it be needed. Yep, leather or rubber hose cut lengthwise are the common ways of providing traction and protection using a barrel restraint. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, just to make sure I"m seeing it correctly, the bit that's sticking up goes inside the receiver, and that's what actually takes the brunt of the torque? Ultimately, the lugs. I have seen a 308AR adaptation of this device that utilizes a top hat and the whole assembly is turned sideways in the vise. This approach would take the hurt off those lugs as the receiver is now supported top and bottom. I think I follow you. The receiver would still engage at the take down pins (or wouldn't have to, actually), and then a 2nd piece would sit "on top" and hold it that way. That's feasible too. My biggest hang-up right now is the need to buy specialized tools for something I only plan (for now) on doing once. If I can make something, it just makes it more fun, and easier on the wallet (and keeps the wife off my back). The cheapest and safest way is to utilize the USGI method. You can even make your own barrel adapters for your vice out of wood and line with leather or slit garden hose. Aluminum barrel jaws are about $15.00 for a set. I'll post s pic from the M16/M4 manual so you get the idea. That makes perfect sense. Call it near-sited. I never thought to use something as a buffer between the vise/block and the barrel. Touche. And the block I originally posted could still be utilized for just holding the receiver, should it be needed. An easier way to hold the receiver assembly is to use a Mag Well Block. You can also fabricate one very easily. These are good for sight/optic work, etc. I have this one. Sinclair Mag Well Block Mine was machined, white UHMW and very well done. Some of them are injection-molded and may not fit as well. (I returned one of those) WARNING : Do not use a mag well block for barrel work ! |
|
Quoted:
An easier way to hold the receiver assembly is to use a Mag Well Block. You can also fabricate one very easily. These are good for sight/optic work, etc. I have this one. Sinclair Mag Well Block Mine was machined, white UHMW and very well done. Some of them are injection-molded and may not fit as well. (I returned one of those) WARNING : Do not use a mag well block for barrel work ! Odd, my response didn't post. What I said was, I intended to make one for the lower receiver work, and either make it "flip-able" to work with the upper as well, or just make one for each. Question: Is it acceptable to make those blocks out of aluminum rather than plastic? I can't always get my hands on good size pieces of plastic, but aluminum is almost always readily available. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
An easier way to hold the receiver assembly is to use a Mag Well Block. You can also fabricate one very easily. These are good for sight/optic work, etc. I have this one. Sinclair Mag Well Block Mine was machined, white UHMW and very well done. Some of them are injection-molded and may not fit as well. (I returned one of those) WARNING : Do not use a mag well block for barrel work ! Odd, my response didn't post. What I said was, I intended to make one for the lower receiver work, and either make it "flip-able" to work with the upper as well, or just make one for each. Question: Is it acceptable to make those blocks out of aluminum rather than plastic? I can't always get my hands on good size pieces of plastic, but aluminum is almost always readily available. Aluminum, wood or plastic. I would duct tape up the aluminum to keep the scratching down if that's a concern. My local hardware store sells UHMW scraps. Someone working on decks using synthetic materials will have plastic scrap. |
|
Quoted:
Odd, my response didn't post. What I said was, I intended to make one for the lower receiver work, and either make it "flip-able" to work with the upper as well, or just make one for each. Question: Is it acceptable to make those blocks out of aluminum rather than plastic? I can't always get my hands on good size pieces of plastic, but aluminum is almost always readily available. Aluminum, wood or plastic. I would duct tape up the aluminum to keep the scratching down if that's a concern. My local hardware store sells UHMW scraps. Someone working on decks using synthetic materials will have plastic scrap. Fair enough. Thanks for the heads up. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Odd, my response didn't post. What I said was, I intended to make one for the lower receiver work, and either make it "flip-able" to work with the upper as well, or just make one for each. Question: Is it acceptable to make those blocks out of aluminum rather than plastic? I can't always get my hands on good size pieces of plastic, but aluminum is almost always readily available. Aluminum, wood or plastic. I would duct tape up the aluminum to keep the scratching down if that's a concern. My local hardware store sells UHMW scraps. Someone working on decks using synthetic materials will have plastic scrap. Fair enough. Thanks for the heads up. If you end up making your own, please post pictures and a detailed description of the process/materials and results. Thats why this site is here after all, to expand our knowledge base. |
|
Quoted:
If you end up making your own, please post pictures and a detailed description of the process/materials and results. Thats why this site is here after all, to expand our knowledge base. No problem. It may be a little while though. I'm working on saving up the funds to start buying parts. |
|
And for the sum of $75.00 + shipping this engineering wonder can be yours. 
|
|
Quoted:
Looks like spikes got the idea of aluminum from me http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/AR308recblock4w.jpg That's cool. I may make one, and have the insert removeable so I can use it as needed. I'll most likely go the route of clamping the barrel to torque the barrel nut, but it's always good to have a way to hold the receiver. |
|
Quoted:
Looks like spikes got the idea of aluminum from me http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/AR308recblock4w.jpg Newbie here with question. Do you have any drawings for that tool? I want to make one of these myself but if there are drawings available my buddy can plug it into his CNC and away we go. Otherwise my plan was to start measuring up the receiver and trial and error one together. I also like the barrel vise method. Why do you think the aftermarket is not using that method? Don't want to scratch up their pretty new rifles? Thanks for all the information on this sight. Pictures of my new build will be up soon. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like spikes got the idea of aluminum from me http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/AR308recblock4w.jpg Newbie here with question. Do you have any drawings for that tool? I want to make one of these myself but if there are drawings available my buddy can plug it into his CNC and away we go. See that angle on the left side of that upper ? That identifies it as an Armalite AR10 upper. Looks like the receiver block was built for that. I also like the barrel vise method. Why do you think the aftermarket is not using that method? Don't want to scratch up their pretty new rifles?
I don't know why the USGI method is not more prevalent. It would be less likely to scratch pretty receivers since it doesn't touch them ! The barrel is protected by leather or rubber hose. It also works for the non-standard shaped billet receivers and 308AR receivers. |
|
Quoted:
Fulton Armory has the clam shell upper and lower combo for $39. That's what I use. Or you can just get the clam shell and upper insert for $25. http://www.fulton-armory.com/images/products/detail/_DSC1353.JPG I use essentially the same sold through Brownells. IMO it is the way to go. Bill |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like spikes got the idea of aluminum from me http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/AR308recblock4w.jpg Newbie here with question. Do you have any drawings for that tool? I want to make one of these myself but if there are drawings available my buddy can plug it into his CNC and away we go. See that angle on the left side of that upper ? That identifies it as an Armalite AR10 upper. Looks like the receiver block was built for that. I also like the barrel vise method. Why do you think the aftermarket is not using that method? Don't want to scratch up their pretty new rifles?
I don't know why the USGI method is not more prevalent. It would be less likely to scratch pretty receivers since it doesn't touch them ! The barrel is protected by leather or rubber hose. It also works for the non-standard shaped billet receivers and 308AR receivers. Yes that block is made for the AR 10's, I made one for the AR 223 receiver's too but no pictures. I use a barrel clamp or barrel extesion tool like this to install and remove barrels so no chance of any receiver dammage removing a barrel nut that someone ding dong has used loktite on 
|
|
I have the Fulton Vise Block set as shown above. It is very good for the price. I have installed 4 gas blocks using that vise with zero problems or marks on the upper. I would suggest it. As far as the DPMS Panther upper vise block goes I would say that it is good to go since my Mega Monolithic instructions said that using any other vise block would void the warranty. I am not sure if that is due to quality or just some set up the two companies have. However, I used a DPMS Panther block for my Mega Mono Upper just in case something goes wrong.
ETA: Redtazdog nice look vise block. Well done. If you are worried about marking your upper you can use a thing rag and put it between the vise block and the upper. I used it the first two times but then realized it was unnecessary. It will give you piece of mind, though. |
AR Sponsor