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Posted: 2/18/2009 8:59:56 AM EDT
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Hi all I am newbie here but have a couple questions on Red Dot sites. I am getting close to purchasing a red dot for my M4. I heavily favoring the Aimpoint brand and leaning towards the ML3 as I don't use night vision equipment. This will be a long time commitment as I do not change equipment frequently. So whatever I get it needs to be quality and something that will last years and years. Any suggestions here are welcome as I have little experience with Red Dots.
My main question is how do I mount the red dot device? Is it practical to mount it to the carrying handle? If mounted to the handle it would seem I could keep my current Iron sites but not have any co-witness. If I removed the handle or potentially "Chopped" my handle what is the best mount for the Aimpoint ML3 so my standard iron sites and Red Dot site can be used. Thanks for any advice, Jeff |
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If you have a flat top upper with a removeable carry handle LaRue makes a nice mount/ML3 combo for $550 shipped I think. Other mounts of lesser quality and price are also available. You would then need to buy a rear back up sight in order to cowitness. Either a fixed style or flip up style.
If your carry handle is not detachable you have several options. Mount the ML3 sight up high on the carry handle. This works but you won't be able to have a cheekweld and you will have a bigger offset to deal with while firing. There will be no cowitness but with the right mount you will be able to still use the existing sights underneath by lowering your viewpoint. Mount the Aimpoint on a gooseneck type mount that sits the red dot out front over the top of the handguards. IMO this makes the weapon too forward heavy but you will be able to cowitness your sights and get a good cheekweld. Some use and like this setup. Install a free float handguard and mount the ML3 to that in front of your A2 upper. Not many do this as it costs about as much as the better options. Sell your A2 upper and buy a flattop A3 upper to replace it and then go with the LaRue combo setup. My favorite option. Others will chime in if I have overlooked an option. |
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Yes my carring handle is removable. So I could remove it and mount the ML3 to the weaver? mount that is there. Would it be feasable to chop my handle so I can keep the rear site? or should I just invest in a flip up site?
If I chop the site, is the "cantilever" mount the way to go? This is really difificult trying to do this blind. Is there a site that has the mounting bracket specs, so I can see how high they raise the red dot site? |
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You're best served to remove the carrying handle and mount your AimPoint directly to the flattop receiver. Consequently, you'll need some rear flip-up sights in the extreme and rare case that your AimPoint fails.
For the setup pics, go to the LaRue Tactical site and look for their AimPoint LT-129 cantilever mount. From there, you'll find the video link that has the image slideshow. |
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Quoted:
Yes my carring handle is removable. So I could remove it and mount the ML3 to the weaver? mount that is there. Would it be feasable to chop my handle so I can keep the rear site? or should I just invest in a flip up site? If I chop the site, is the "cantilever" mount the way to go? This is really difificult trying to do this blind. Is there a site that has the mounting bracket specs, so I can see how high they raise the red dot site? The ML3 requires a mount of some sort for you to mount it to the upper. I am totally confused about what you mean by "the mount that is there"  . If you remove your carry handle, nothing should be there, just the slotted AR upper receiver.
If your carry handle can be chopped and the very rear part with the sight can still solidly attach I guess you could go this route but it would be more trouble IMO than it would be just to sell the carry handle and buy a fixed or flip rear sight. The Cantilever mount is only really needed if you want to have the red dot sight sit a long way forward or if there is no room for the ML3 because of magnifiers, etc. taking up space on the upper. If all you have is a flip up rear sight and a ML3 then a standard mount would work fine. Decide if you want a absolute or lower 1/3 cowitness for your back up sights before you decide on the mount. Looking at the photos in the tacked thread above entitled "optic options" should help you visualize what you want to do. |
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FWIW... The Comp C3 is the same as the ML3 except it is only waterproof to 15' instead of 60'.
SWFA Comp C3 w/ QD Aimpoint Mount $388 includes the mount and you can add the rubber cover, flip ups and whatever else you desire. Sell the removable handle and buy a BUIS if you are convinced you need it.. |
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Quoted:
FWIW... The Comp C3 is the same as the ML3 except it is only waterproof to 15' instead of 60'. SWFA Comp C3 w/ QD Aimpoint Mount $388 includes the mount and you can add the rubber cover, flip ups and whatever else you desire. Sell the removable handle and buy a BUIS if you are convinced you need it.. FYI, that kit is only available with the 2 moa dot. I called and asked if I could get it with the 4 moa dot and a rather rude young lady told me no. Looks like a good deal as long as you are OK with the dot size. |
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Thanks to everyone who took the time to post. The pics really helps also.
It looks like the LT150 will work fine for my application. I think I will just keep the removable carrying handle, and not worry about the rear iron site for know... Something to purchase in the future. Jeff |
I run a ML3 2moa in a Larue 129. I have owned a M2 4moa, ML2 4moa, and this ML3 in 2 moa. The 2moa is way better, as it dont cover up as much of the target as the 4moa, 50 yards and back. Up close the 2moa can be turned up a bit and it is very close to the 4moa. I will run 2moa from now on. The Larue 129 is simply the best of the best. I have ran the standard QRP, ARMS, and the LT150 as well. Here are a couple pics. My BUIS was not instaled in the pics. I run a Troy BUIS.
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Seriously, I have to chuckle a bit when everybody talks about wanting the "precision" of the 2MOA dot vs the 4MOA. Everyone has their preferences, and it IS a preference, but the Aimpoint was designed as quick reaction CQB sight to get bullets on target quickly. If at the ranges an Aimpoint would typically be employed at - someone is worrying about that kind of absolute precision - then I would suggest you have time to line up a magnified optic and not worry about a CQB type sight.
ETA: Personally, I want something that my eye picks up quickly and gets onto the Center of Mass of the target and makes them dead. If I'm taking the time to place a tiny dot on a precise location - then I'm probably not in a CQB scenario and would rather have a magnified optic. If you are running a 3x magnifier behind your aimpoint - then i could see the desire for a 2MOA dot....maybe. But IMHO, I prefer the bigger dot for making someone dead at 50 yds or less very fast compared with needing a precise dot for accurate shot placement that will take me perhaps an extra RCH for my eye to find the smaller dot. That RCH might be just enough for my opponent to make me dead with his. Actually, Minute of Dirtbag Intruder is good enough for me. |
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PistolPete..... How do you like the 2 MOA vs the 4 MOA. I am leaning towards the 2 for accuracy issues. Does the 2 seem small or do you like the size? I do not have enough trigger time with the 4moa to really compare them. I can say that I never wished the dot to be bigger on the 2moa. Also, I really like the 65 + 1 moa of my EOtech. Shooting at 300 yards I am sure I would prefer the smallest dot. However, shooting in a real world defensive situation, I see little difference. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW... The Comp C3 is the same as the ML3 except it is only waterproof to 15' instead of 60'. SWFA Comp C3 w/ QD Aimpoint Mount $388 includes the mount and you can add the rubber cover, flip ups and whatever else you desire. Sell the removable handle and buy a BUIS if you are convinced you need it.. FYI, that kit is only available with the 2 moa dot. I called and asked if I could get it with the 4 moa dot and a rather rude young lady told me no. Looks like a good deal as long as you are OK with the dot size. BTW, I had recently placed an order for this SWFA kit, along with the flip up lens caps, spacer, and Troy rear sight. Several days later, i got an email that all was backorderd. Kind of ticks me off, as a lot of vendors will indicate immediately that an item is out of stock. I may have got a good price, but I don't have my toys to play with. |
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