AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/10/2007 7:22:11 AM EDT
|
...in a pistol round that meets the following criteria: Bullet minimum diameter of .357" Case length between 1.16" and 1.625" Indiana is proposing to allow rifles that are chambered in pistol calibers that meet the above criteria for deer hunting (we can only use shotguns now.) |
Case length or OAL? |
I talked to the Bushmaster folks at the SHOT show about the .45 bushmaster for "pistol caliber" hunting, they seemed oblivious. Might be worth finding out the case length of that round. |
Sounds like they are asking for people to hunt with .357, .41, and .44 mags. The 50 AE also meets this but Tromix has stopped making uppers for it. You are looking at tracking down a used Tromix 50 AE (or .44 Mag, or .440 Corbon) upper or hunting with a wildcat you may have to develp yourself. You may just have to find another hunting rifle platform.... The only other near mainstream round I can think of suited for an autoloader would be .45 Winchester Magnum and maybe the 45 Bushmaster if the case is short enough. |
Ah, I didn't realize they were that short! This is the way to go, you have readily available uppers, reloading dies, brass, bullets, and ammo! Plus you can own suppressors in IN so this is a good reason to buy a can as well! editted to add: Unless there are other criteria then just case length and caliber. You mention pistol rounds, how will they determine that? Other then AR pistols and single shots I don't think you'll find any 458 SOCOM handguns! |
And just after I depleted my 45WinMagAR fund (I just had to have that 9mm upper) you go and mention it again  Good thing I kept my cookie jar! I emailed Randall Rausch about barrels for the 45 Mag and he fwd me to Tony Rumore who passed on some good info about the 45WinMag. Being a straight wall case getting the mags to work is the main issue. My 50 Beo feeds just fine using stock .223 mags but the 45 is shorter. The more I got into it the more the .458 SOCOM made sense.
|
Here's the actual wording on the proposed amendment: (4) A rifle must: (A) fire a bullet of three hundred fifty-seven thousands of an inch (.357) diameter or larger; (B) have a minimum case length of one and sixteen hundredths (1.16) inches; and (C) have a maximum case length of one and six hundred twenty-five thousandths (1.625) inches. Sounds to me like the .458 SOCOM would be perfectly legal! As for suppressors, we can use them here in Indiana (I own a few), but hunting with them is specifically prohibited in the hunting regulations. On the other hand, there is no mention of machineguns in the hunting regs -- perhaps I should put a .458 SOCOM upper on my transferable M16. 
|
I'm sure they would crap if they knew the .458 SOCOM fits their criteria, but the wording above is exactly how it will read if passed. There's no mention of straight walls. Since the .458 SOCOM is a 100-150 yard round, it should fit nicely with the other short-range pistol rounds that they have in mind. |
|
This same thing came up 2-3 years ago, at that time it had to be a straight-walled cartridge, anything goes. This time, the maximum case length interests me - as there isn't any cartridge restriction. I'm thinking .358/375 Norma BR at 1.560 case length or 358/375 WSSM with .035 shorter neck. |
M4Madness, Is there anybody in the Indiana Department of Natural Resources that you could contact about using the 458 SOCOM? It fits the dimension requirements but if they are looking for actual pistol ammo to be used (although not stated) the 458 SOCOM may be a no-no! I would hate to see you buy the upper for hunting there in Indiana and find out after that it's not legal. Just my 2 cents. |
I think that would be a bad idea. I think bringing an example of 44-40, 38-40. and 357-44 B&D might not be a bad idea, just to shake the straight wall thing. In fact, I'd propose the rule be that rile cartridges could could only have cases up too a maximum 5.55 times their bullet diameter. This would get you the 35 Remington, 38-55, 375 Winchester, 444 & 450 Marlin, the 45-70 and 45-90. I wouldn't tell them, but it would also allow cartridges like 7mm BR, 7.62x39, 30 Herrett, 357 Herrett, 30 PPC Long. David |
| IL had a similar law for their handgun deer season, after a couple years it was changed to require straight-walled cartridges after guys started hunting with XP100's in 308 and the like. Even if it's not written into the law at first, that doesnt mean it won't be once they figure out what is actually being fielded. |
We can already hunt with TC Contender/Encore pistols and the like with any bullet diameter larger than .243". We just can't currently hunt with any rifles. |
|
I would assume everyone wants the rifle hunting opened up to rifles. This may be an opportunity to do just that. I do not have any other Cartridges loaded or not than the 45-70. I know .308 or the .223 would not be to our benefit. Much less any 30-06. Anyone experienced with the muzzle load ballistics going who can tell the yahoos in there the truth about speed? One of the points of the rules in place may be the repeatability or ease of a second follow up shot. They would back-peddle PDQ if anyone showed up with a 458 Socom. |
|
From the website today: THIS PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN CANCELLED DUE TO WEATHER, AND WILL BE RESCHEDULED. THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO A DATE TO BE DETERMINED--MOST PROBABLY MID-MARCH. I called in to ask them to clarify. At first it only said cancelled. |
AR Sponsor