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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Army Basic Training Rifle (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/30/2009 9:26:33 AM EDT
| Its been 24 years since I've attended basic training. Back then I trained with a worn out M16a1. My son will soon be turning 16 and plans to sign up when eligible. I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on. Maybe a 16th birthday gift. Is the Army still using the M16a2 in basic training or have they completely switched over to the M4? What about infantry school? When do they begin training with optics such as Aimpoints and Acogs? Thanks. |
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can't speak from the Army standpoint.....
but as a Marine- I would say LEARNING on an A2 would help more then a tricked out M4- even if that's what they're going to use to qual on anyway. fundamentals are exactly that- the building blocks- irons will teach that better then optics every time. |
| LOL, that sounds like the same Army I was in. You get what you get, shut up and train soldier. I'll prolly start him out on a A2 type to get him use to the full size rifle in the prone position just in case. My goal is to work with him to help him get his zero with his first sight adjustment and his expert badge on his first try. Wish I had a dad like that when I went in. |
| I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) |
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When I went though in 2002 we used M16A2. The soldiers that just got back from training in my unit are still using the same. I wouldnt think he will even see optics or M4 till he just out of basic and AIT then it all depends on the unit or his MOS. WE have Aimpoints in are unit but they dont let us qualify with them.
Cody |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) I planned on working with him on the sight adjustments, zeroing, and engaging targets out to 300 meters, or more if needed. I realize that he will be re-taught everything the Army way. I've already taught him about being the quiet professional and keeping his mouth shut about any knowledge he has. Nobody likes the know it all. This will be constantly reinforced. He will be trained to let his skills speak for themselves. Looking back at my training, I had never shot a rifle other then a BB gun when I went in. I hope to get him a slight head start. Thanks. |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) Not to nitpick, but I went through Benning in 1983 and it was OSUT then, so it's not a new thing. It was OSUT for a few years before that too. Oh, M16A1 for my whole 4 years as a grunt, then 3 in the NG afterwards. Believe it or not the USMC had the A2 before the Army did (that may be the first piece of equipment that the Marines had prior to the Army!). |
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in basic they still use the A2. Not so much. Depends on who you are and where you go. MP's turned in their last M16A2's about a month ago. They all have brand new M4's with rails and BUIS. This is at Fort Leonard Wood. Steve disgusting 
glad someone showed you how to shoot first |
| I've never been armed services... Granada was my generations war... so having disqualified myself from discussion. I can't see why learning to zero with an M16a2 target wouldn't benefit him as well 300 meter targets with iron sights. At Benning sniper school I'm told after getting admission paperwork right the first thing they do is go to an M16a2 target. If you can't group three shots within a centimeter of one another with A2 sights your out right there on the spot. |
| Was at Benning this past April and the infantry recruits I had interaction with were using M4s. From talking to them, they never even touched their irons, they zeroed and qualled with their CCOs. This seemed like a gaping training hole to me, anyone else know if this is an anomaly or standard practice for basic training now? |
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Was at Benning this past April and the infantry recruits I had interaction with were using M4s. From talking to them, they never even touched their irons, they zeroed and qualled with their CCOs. This seemed like a gaping training hole to me, anyone else know if this is an anomaly or standard practice for basic training now? Please tell me it ain't so!?!? "Back in the day" there was nothing BUT iron sights! 
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When I went through Army Basic in 1992; I was lugging around an old Colt M16A1 rifle; in Active duty, I lugged a Colt M16A2, then back to the M16A1 in the Reserves, a Hydramatic A1 no less. THen because i was moved to the gunner's position, they took my A1 and gave me a Saco M60 GPMG (Woop-Tee-Doo!!!); then we went to the A2 and they took my '60 away and dropped an FNH M249 on my lap; then I went to Iraq and they took my SAW and gave me a Colt M4, then took that away and dropped the SAW on my lap yet again, until I got out in 2007.
I have had at one time or another, every major post-Vietnam variation of the M16 dropped on my lap; M16A1, transitional A1 with C7 upper and round handguards, A2 and the M4; from Colt, Hydramatic, H&R and FN-H |
| I'd get a M16A4 and use the removeable carry handle. No sense limiting the gun to irons only if you can choose to have either setup down the road. You never know, your kid may get good with the carry handle and once he's 17 he may want to give an optic a try as well, doesn't hurt to train with both setups. |
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in basic they still use the A2. Not so much. Depends on who you are and where you go. MP's turned in their last M16A2's about a month ago. They all have brand new M4's with rails and BUIS. This is at Fort Leonard Wood. Steve so MP's go through a different Basic Training then regular troops? since when? the guy asked about basic. |
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Quoted: The training syllybus is the same, but soldiers attend Basic at several different Army bases around the country, it's been that way for a LOOOONG time. While one base may be using M4s another may have M16A4s or A2s still in the Armory.so MP's go through a different Basic Training then regular troops? since when? the guy asked about basic. |
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Its been 24 years since I've attended basic training. Back then I trained with a worn out M16a1. My son will soon be turning 16 and plans to sign up when eligible. I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on. Maybe a 16th birthday gift. Is the Army still using the M16a2 in basic training or have they completely switched over to the M4? What about infantry school? When do they begin training with optics such as Aimpoints and Acogs? Thanks. So did I, a total POS jammamatic. ETA-Ft. Dix 89' |
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in basic they still use the A2. Not so much. Depends on who you are and where you go. MP's turned in their last M16A2's about a month ago. They all have brand new M4's with rails and BUIS. This is at Fort Leonard Wood. Steve so MP's go through a different Basic Training then regular troops? since when? the guy asked about basic. When I went through basic in 1982 the MP's (like the infantry) had the OSUT (One Station Unit Training) Where they did the Basic and AIT as one continuous course. I was a commo guy and did basic at Ft McClellan and AIT at Ft. Gordon. |
| i was at benning july-oct 2008, and we used A4's with Aimpoint Comp M2's (M68) we did see a few units with M4's though. Also, shot with our backup iron sights ONCE... we shot maybe 3 groups with them, then put our 68's back on and zeroed them. It seemed to me that guys who had practically no prior shooting experience did the best because they had no "bad habits." |
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in basic they still use the A2. Not so much. Depends on who you are and where you go. MP's turned in their last M16A2's about a month ago. They all have brand new M4's with rails and BUIS. This is at Fort Leonard Wood. Steve disgusting
glad someone showed you how to shoot first I was taken a aback at first when I read that, then I saw who wrote it lol. PM sent buddy Steve |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) Not to nitpick, but I went through Benning in 1983 and it was OSUT then, so it's not a new thing. It was OSUT for a few years before that too. Oh, M16A1 for my whole 4 years as a grunt, then 3 in the NG afterwards. Believe it or not the USMC had the A2 before the Army did (that may be the first piece of equipment that the Marines had prior to the Army!). That's because the A2 program was spear headed by the Marine Corps for the Marine Corps and big ARMY simply followed suit on that one. From what I understand Dave Lutz (Coldblue on this site) who is the Military Rep for KAC was the OIC of the A2 program for the Corps back in the early 80's. It would certainly be nice to know the background details and how the whole thing got spun up....interesting stuff. But your right, the Marine Corps does "generally" get big Army's hand me downs or at the very least procures things way behind the power curve that the ARMY has already fielded for years. One big thing that comes to mind are comms. The Corps was still utilizing Vietnam era radios in the mid nineties and by the time we got the Cingars big ARMY had already dumped Cingars for something more advanced, smaller, lighter etc. |
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Was at Benning this past April and the infantry recruits I had interaction with were using M4s. From talking to them, they never even touched their irons, they zeroed and qualled with their CCOs. This seemed like a gaping training hole to me, anyone else know if this is an anomaly or standard practice for basic training now? From what I've seen it tends to vary on what your job is. At Leonard Wood, we had Transportation, all styles of Engineers, Chemical, MP's, and straight basic training units. The MP's were the only ones who had M4's and not all of us had them. My unit was the last to get M4's, we were the last company in the battalion to use M16A2's. They were beat to shit but still shot. We turned ours in and the next cycle got M4's, brand new out of the box. The other companies had M4's as well, all brand new save one company who had used M4's with carry handles and regular hand guards. To be honest it would have been nice to have M4's, but seeing as we only once used CCO's and PEQ's and that was a total waste of time and ammo I was OK with my M16A2. I had been qualifying with my M4 and CCO at my unit for almost two years prior to going to basic (long story) but the main reason I'd prefer an M4 at basic, it's almost a pound lighter so when we had to hold them over our heads and do rifle PT that would have been nice lol. For us, our shooting with CCO's went like this, take 24 M16A2's, throw a gooseneck mount and M68 CCO on it. They were not zeroed, make a few lines, and go practioce reflexive fire for 2 magazines of ammo at two pop up targets. PEQ-4's was the same, except they had CCO's and PEQ-4's mounted but the goose neck mounts came loose as did the PEQ4's so it was basically jus tgo up there, set your selector to burst and blow off your ammo so that you can get back home for the day. It was a waste of time and ammo. The Drill SGT's couldn't give a shit less about teaching anyone anything right or wrong, they just wnated to get Soldiers through so they could go home. The weapons were so hot from having so many Soldiers do mag dumps through them that where were almost too hot to tough and a few Soldiers were burned just by trying to hold the mag well since the handgaurds were too hot. I'm sure that even with new M4's they will do it the same way since they can't get enough CCO's or PEQ's for everyone. |
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in basic they still use the A2. Not so much. Depends on who you are and where you go. MP's turned in their last M16A2's about a month ago. They all have brand new M4's with rails and BUIS. This is at Fort Leonard Wood. Steve so MP's go through a different Basic Training then regular troops? since when? the guy asked about basic. MP's, Engineers, 88 Mikes, Infantry, DAT's, and Deltas amongst others all go through OSUT, as a result I was in an MP OSUT and had only MP's. Hence the MP battalions had their equipment and little differences in training, just like the 88 Mikes did, and the Engineers did as well. So not it wasn't exactly the same as everyone elses. My training was different than an 11B's would have been at the same time, basic training is certainly not standardised by any means, even if it's supposed to be. |
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i was at benning july-oct 2008, and we used A4's with Aimpoint Comp M2's (M68) we did see a few units with M4's though. Also, shot with our backup iron sights ONCE... we shot maybe 3 groups with them, then put our 68's back on and zeroed them. It seemed to me that guys who had practically no prior shooting experience did the best because they had no "bad habits." Bad habits come from a lack of proper training. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my son, he has a dad who not only may get him his own AR, but is also a firearms instructor who watches the boy as he shoots rather then the target he is shooting. BTW- My training in 85 was OSUT at Ft McClellan AL. MP Corps. Delta-11, 3rd Platoon. Humped an M60 in Korea before getting some white hat duty at Ft Sill where I finally shot a M16a2. Was also on the SRT team in FT Sill, did payroll escorts for all the basic trainee's payday when the ARMY still handed out cash. Carried a Remington 870 with folding stock on that detail. Good Times. |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) Not to nitpick, but I went through Benning in 1983 and it was OSUT then, so it's not a new thing. It was OSUT for a few years before that too. Oh, M16A1 for my whole 4 years as a grunt, then 3 in the NG afterwards. Believe it or not the USMC had the A2 before the Army did (that may be the first piece of equipment that the Marines had prior to the Army!). That's because the A2 program was spear headed by the Marine Corps for the Marine Corps and big ARMY simply followed suit on that one. From what I understand Dave Lutz (Coldblue on this site) who is the Military Rep for KAC was the OIC of the A2 program for the Corps back in the early 80's. It would certainly be nice to know the background details and how the whole thing got spun up....interesting stuff. But your right, the Marine Corps does "generally" get big Army's hand me downs or at the very least procures things way behind the power curve that the ARMY has already fielded for years. One big thing that comes to mind are comms. The Corps was still utilizing Vietnam era radios in the mid nineties and by the time we got the Cingars big ARMY had already dumped Cingars for something more advanced, smaller, lighter etc. Actually that is really more of a Marine Corps myth than anything else. In the last 20-30 years the Marines have fielded new gear quicker than the army. On just about ever item of individual equipment, from uniforms, boots and body armor to load bearing gear the Marine Corps fielded at the same time or prior to 18th Airborne Corps. A case in point the reason the Marines waited for the SINCGARS was when the army fielded the first models they didn't have internal COMSEC only freq-hopping capability. The Marine Corps intentionally waited to the ICOM SINCGARS were field to keep from having to buy one item and replace it 4-5 years later when the ICOM version was fielded. |
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If he is joining soon, let them teach him on their rifles. When I went to basic, those who had experience on AR15's did better than those without, however those who had experience with hunting rifles and shotguns, did not do as well. Teach him on the AR and teach him right. |
| I went through Ft. Knox in May 07, we carried A2's. We always used irons durning live fire quals. They did take us to a building that was setup with a video game type sim ranges. We had M68's and M4's for the sims system. I still qual with an A2 and irons today. Like posted before it does depend on your MOS and unit. I glad to see you helping your son out! The A15 practice will help a ton! |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) Not to nitpick, but I went through Benning in 1983 and it was OSUT then, so it's not a new thing. It was OSUT for a few years before that too. Oh, M16A1 for my whole 4 years as a grunt, then 3 in the NG afterwards. Believe it or not the USMC had the A2 before the Army did (that may be the first piece of equipment that the Marines had prior to the Army!). That's because the A2 program was spear headed by the Marine Corps for the Marine Corps and big ARMY simply followed suit on that one. From what I understand Dave Lutz (Coldblue on this site) who is the Military Rep for KAC was the OIC of the A2 program for the Corps back in the early 80's. It would certainly be nice to know the background details and how the whole thing got spun up....interesting stuff. But your right, the Marine Corps does "generally" get big Army's hand me downs or at the very least procures things way behind the power curve that the ARMY has already fielded for years. One big thing that comes to mind are comms. The Corps was still utilizing Vietnam era radios in the mid nineties and by the time we got the Cingars big ARMY had already dumped Cingars for something more advanced, smaller, lighter etc. You must be a marine.What is it with this big army junk? Would you like me to disrespect the marine corps a little bit.Sorry but it just seems like thats what your doing to the army.I'm not trying to start a marine corps army pissing much but try to show a little respect. |
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Quoted: well I never touched a gun in my life before I joined up. I missed expert by 1 point for quals (I blame the gravel under my elbow for the unsupported prone position Quoted: If he is joining soon, let them teach him on their rifles. When I went to basic, those who had experience on AR15's did better than those without, however those who had experience with hunting rifles and shotguns, did not do as well. Teach him on the AR and teach him right.   ). That was with a rattle can silver A1. There was also several others like me that did get expert. That was in Infantry school, Benning, 1984.That old rattle can silver A1 is the reason why I don't belive in the accuwedge/KNS pin fads. And if I can almost shoot expert with a junker and iron sights, than anybody can. |
My first attempt was a no go. My range lane was on the very end and it was over grown and full of shadows. I couldn't find half the targets. I heard everyone else shooting and wondered what the hell they were shooting at. Nothing popped up in my lane. 
I went back the next day with a couple other no-gos and also missed expert by 1 point on a very well used lane with clear pop up targets. They still using them pop up targets for quals? |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) Not to nitpick, but I went through Benning in 1983 and it was OSUT then, so it's not a new thing. It was OSUT for a few years before that too. Oh, M16A1 for my whole 4 years as a grunt, then 3 in the NG afterwards. Believe it or not the USMC had the A2 before the Army did (that may be the first piece of equipment that the Marines had prior to the Army!). That's because the A2 program was spear headed by the Marine Corps for the Marine Corps and big ARMY simply followed suit on that one. From what I understand Dave Lutz (Coldblue on this site) who is the Military Rep for KAC was the OIC of the A2 program for the Corps back in the early 80's. It would certainly be nice to know the background details and how the whole thing got spun up....interesting stuff. But your right, the Marine Corps does "generally" get big Army's hand me downs or at the very least procures things way behind the power curve that the ARMY has already fielded for years. One big thing that comes to mind are comms. The Corps was still utilizing Vietnam era radios in the mid nineties and by the time we got the Cingars big ARMY had already dumped Cingars for something more advanced, smaller, lighter etc. You must be a marine.What is it with this big army junk? Would you like me to disrespect the marine corps a little bit.Sorry but it just seems like thats what your doing to the army.I'm not trying to start a marine corps army pissing much but try to show a little respect. At ease Sgt. Bilko....I didn't mean any disrespect by calling the ARMY "Big"....it's just a fact. And your right, maybe a lot of perceptions do turn into myths via the "rumor mill" within the services. |
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I went to basic in Benning 5 years ago, and here's how it went: It is no longer basic training then infantry school, it's called OSUT (one station unit training) and it is 14-17 weeks long (mine was 17 because we had Christmas exodus in the middle of it) and combines the two, obviously only for soldiers who require infantry school, such as the infantry or special forces candidates. We carried around beat-up M16A2's, but at the range we shot shiny, brand new M16A4's with a red dot sight, but it was nothing fancy like an Aimpioint or Eotech. My advice is this: AR's are fun to shoot, and if you want to get your son one, get an M4 type. My dad always had a Colt AR15A2 and I was intimately familiar with it, but at boot camp they don't care. They teach you how to shoot it as if you've never seen one before, even telling recruits which end you point at the enemy. So it didn't matter that I knew it all, I had to sit through it all, and all of my techniques that I had acquired at shooting my dad's (now mine, btw) went out the window because THIS is how you do it now. No matter what you get him, it'll help, but as long as it is a flat-top type, he should be good to go :) Not to nitpick, but I went through Benning in 1983 and it was OSUT then, so it's not a new thing. It was OSUT for a few years before that too. No problem man just get tired of hearing how the USMC is supposed to be better than the Army.I have a step father who is a retired Marine that's always making smart a$$ comments about the Army.I give props to anyone that serves.Even the coast guard lol. 
Oh, M16A1 for my whole 4 years as a grunt, then 3 in the NG afterwards. Believe it or not the USMC had the A2 before the Army did (that may be the first piece of equipment that the Marines had prior to the Army!). That's because the A2 program was spear headed by the Marine Corps for the Marine Corps and big ARMY simply followed suit on that one. From what I understand Dave Lutz (Coldblue on this site) who is the Military Rep for KAC was the OIC of the A2 program for the Corps back in the early 80's. It would certainly be nice to know the background details and how the whole thing got spun up....interesting stuff. But your right, the Marine Corps does "generally" get big Army's hand me downs or at the very least procures things way behind the power curve that the ARMY has already fielded for years. One big thing that comes to mind are comms. The Corps was still utilizing Vietnam era radios in the mid nineties and by the time we got the Cingars big ARMY had already dumped Cingars for something more advanced, smaller, lighter etc. You must be a marine.What is it with this big army junk? Would you like me to disrespect the marine corps a little bit.Sorry but it just seems like thats what your doing to the army.I'm not trying to start a marine corps army pissing much but try to show a little respect. At ease Sgt. Bilko....I didn't mean any disrespect by calling the ARMY "Big"....it's just a fact. And your right, maybe a lot of perceptions do turn into myths via the "rumor mill" within the services. |
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Ken1164
I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on.
Do him a favor and leave him as a blank slate for the Army to teach him there way.... They have been doing it for a few hundred years and have it down pretty well....
What to prepare him.... get him off the couch and get him running and doing sittups and pushups until he can score 300 on his APFT any time they want him too..... |
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i was at benning july-oct 2008, and we used A4's with Aimpoint Comp M2's (M68) we did see a few units with M4's though. Also, shot with our backup iron sights ONCE... we shot maybe 3 groups with them, then put our 68's back on and zeroed them. It seemed to me that guys who had practically no prior shooting experience did the best because they had no "bad habits." Bad habits come from a lack of proper training. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my son, he has a dad who not only may get him his own AR, but is also a firearms instructor who watches the boy as he shoots rather then the target he is shooting. BTW- My training in 85 was OSUT at Ft McClellan AL. MP Corps. Delta-11, 3rd Platoon. Humped an M60 in Korea before getting some white hat duty at Ft Sill where I finally shot a M16a2. Was also on the SRT team in FT Sill, did payroll escorts for all the basic trainee's payday when the ARMY still handed out cash. Carried a Remington 870 with folding stock on that detail. Good Times. Old timer! I was in Alpha Co 11th MP Bn right on the corner in 1984.......one of these days I am going to get mad and retire. 
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i was at benning july-oct 2008, and we used A4's with Aimpoint Comp M2's (M68) we did see a few units with M4's though. Also, shot with our backup iron sights ONCE... we shot maybe 3 groups with them, then put our 68's back on and zeroed them. It seemed to me that guys who had practically no prior shooting experience did the best because they had no "bad habits." Bad habits come from a lack of proper training. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my son, he has a dad who not only may get him his own AR, but is also a firearms instructor who watches the boy as he shoots rather then the target he is shooting. BTW- My training in 85 was OSUT at Ft McClellan AL. MP Corps. Delta-11, 3rd Platoon. Humped an M60 in Korea before getting some white hat duty at Ft Sill where I finally shot a M16a2. Was also on the SRT team in FT Sill, did payroll escorts for all the basic trainee's payday when the ARMY still handed out cash. Carried a Remington 870 with folding stock on that detail. Good Times. Old timer! I was in Alpha Co 11th MP Bn right on the corner in 1984.......one of these days I am going to get mad and retire.
I was born in 85 if that makes you feel any better :) |
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Ken1164 I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on.
Do him a favor and leave him as a blank slate for the Army to teach him there way.... They have been doing it for a few hundred years and have it down pretty well....
What to prepare him.... get him off the couch and get him running and doing sittups and pushups until he can score 300 on his APFT any time they want him too..... I will have to disagree on this one.Drill Sgt's are not marksmanship instructors.DS are who taught us in basic training and alot we were told was complete BS.The OP says he is an instructor(at least I think I read that) so he might can pass on alot of good info to his son.I do agree though with starting up a good PT program. |
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Ken1164 I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on.
Do him a favor and leave him as a blank slate for the Army to teach him there way.... They have been doing it for a few hundred years and have it down pretty well....
What to prepare him.... get him off the couch and get him running and doing sittups and pushups until he can score 300 on his APFT any time they want him too..... I will have to disagree on this one.Drill Sgt's are not marksmanship instructors.DS are who taught us in basic training and alot we were told was complete BS.The OP says he is an instructor(at least I think I read that) so he might can pass on alot of good info to his son.I do agree though with starting up a good PT program. You read it right. Dad isn't a fudd. I'm ex Army MP, Civilian Law Enforcement for past 20 years, Firearms Instructor, Competition Shooter. I shoot a hell of a lot better now then I did 20+ years ago. I got that way from tens of thousands of rounds sent down range. Ammo and Time spent that the Army didn't have to spend on me. I have the chance to spend time and ammo to give my kid the head start i didn't have. Whats wrong with that? Who knows, maybe he can catch a slot at Sniper School or the AMU if I train him well and he sticks with it. |
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i was at benning july-oct 2008, and we used A4's with Aimpoint Comp M2's (M68) we did see a few units with M4's though. Also, shot with our backup iron sights ONCE... we shot maybe 3 groups with them, then put our 68's back on and zeroed them. It seemed to me that guys who had practically no prior shooting experience did the best because they had no "bad habits." Bad habits come from a lack of proper training. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my son, he has a dad who not only may get him his own AR, but is also a firearms instructor who watches the boy as he shoots rather then the target he is shooting. BTW- My training in 85 was OSUT at Ft McClellan AL. MP Corps. Delta-11, 3rd Platoon. Humped an M60 in Korea before getting some white hat duty at Ft Sill where I finally shot a M16a2. Was also on the SRT team in FT Sill, did payroll escorts for all the basic trainee's payday when the ARMY still handed out cash. Carried a Remington 870 with folding stock on that detail. Good Times. Old timer! I was in Alpha Co 11th MP Bn right on the corner in 1984.......one of these days I am going to get mad and retire.
I was born in 85 if that makes you feel any better :) No, it really does not. Have you ever used Kiwi? |
Its still fairly mixed. I spent 4 weeks attached to 3 different basic training OSUT companies (all at one brigade), they all had m4s with m68 (some of which were broken, egad broken aimpoints), I think I saw a couple peq15s/peq2/etc, except for the guys that were carrying m249s or 240s
These guys I caught sleeping in the patrol base, you can see the ras with rail covers, m68 with broken rear dial- doesn't have the factory colt sling- But another brigade just down the road on Sand Hill had m16a2s with rails with nothing but KAC covers |
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i was at benning july-oct 2008, and we used A4's with Aimpoint Comp M2's (M68) we did see a few units with M4's though. Also, shot with our backup iron sights ONCE... we shot maybe 3 groups with them, then put our 68's back on and zeroed them. It seemed to me that guys who had practically no prior shooting experience did the best because they had no "bad habits." Bad habits come from a lack of proper training. Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately for my son, he has a dad who not only may get him his own AR, but is also a firearms instructor who watches the boy as he shoots rather then the target he is shooting. BTW- My training in 85 was OSUT at Ft McClellan AL. MP Corps. Delta-11, 3rd Platoon. Humped an M60 in Korea before getting some white hat duty at Ft Sill where I finally shot a M16a2. Was also on the SRT team in FT Sill, did payroll escorts for all the basic trainee's payday when the ARMY still handed out cash. Carried a Remington 870 with folding stock on that detail. Good Times. Old timer! I was in Alpha Co 11th MP Bn right on the corner in 1984.......one of these days I am going to get mad and retire.
I was born in 85 if that makes you feel any better :) No, it really does not. Have you ever used Kiwi? 4 years at a senior military college before ACU's came out, I'm well aware of what Kiwi is... I preferred the other stuff, whats it called, came in a blue tin with a yellow stripe. Though I have to echo the above sentiments, Drill SGT's should NOT be marksmanship instructors. they have comittees for everything else, why they don't for BRM I don't quite understand. I suppose it has to do with the sheer time involved. As a result, I do agree that you should teach your son the propper way before he gets to basic. When he gets there, tell him to keep an open mind, but a closed mouth! Just shut up and shoot and get through it and move on. Steve - |
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Quoted: Its been 24 years since I've attended basic training. Back then I trained with a worn out M16a1. My son will soon be turning 16 and plans to sign up when eligible. I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on. Maybe a 16th birthday gift. Is the Army still using the M16a2 in basic training or have they completely switched over to the M4? What about infantry school? When do they begin training with optics such as Aimpoints and Acogs? Thanks. Army still issues the A2 to non-combat-arms recruits... 3 years ago, they were pulling out A1s to give to AIT troops so they could 'live with' their rifles Marine-Corps Style... |
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Its been 24 years since I've attended basic training. Back then I trained with a worn out M16a1. My son will soon be turning 16 and plans to sign up when eligible. I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on. Maybe a 16th birthday gift. Is the Army still using the M16a2 in basic training or have they completely switched over to the M4? What about infantry school? When do they begin training with optics such as Aimpoints and Acogs? Thanks. Army still issues the A2 to non-combat-arms recruits... 3 years ago, they were pulling out A1s to give to AIT troops so they could 'live with' their rifles Marine-Corps Style... How do you mean, live with their rifles Marine corps style? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Its been 24 years since I've attended basic training. Back then I trained with a worn out M16a1. My son will soon be turning 16 and plans to sign up when eligible. I have a few ARs and was thinking about getting another one set up for him to start training on. Maybe a 16th birthday gift. Is the Army still using the M16a2 in basic training or have they completely switched over to the M4? What about infantry school? When do they begin training with optics such as Aimpoints and Acogs? Thanks. Army still issues the A2 to non-combat-arms recruits... 3 years ago, they were pulling out A1s to give to AIT troops so they could 'live with' their rifles Marine-Corps Style... I like that idea. Sure as hell would beat pulling guard duty with a 'rubber duck'. |
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