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Atrius Selector with Bore Buddy trip kit (Page 1 of 2)
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Posted: 12/24/2025 5:50:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GF99-99][Edited]
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Recently picked up another Atrius Forced Reset Selector (I have 2 already that work great with no issues in regular 5.56 rifles) but this time I wanted throw one in my 22 built so I also grab one of the Bore Buddy Adjustable Super Safety & Selektor Trip Kit that supposedly works well with the Atrius safety. Threw it all in with the hopes I could have this up and running as a self Christmas present but I am having issues with the 3rd position "FRT" mode not working. In regular fire/semi (safety vertically pointing up) position the gun cycles fine no issues. When I flip it the full 180 to the FRT mode it fires one shot then the bolt will not cycle far enough back to reset the trigger. When I pull back on the charging handle there is a very distinct hard stop that is short of where it normal stops in semi mode. Its like the lever is falling out of place and getting in the way of the bolt from fully cycling all the way back to reset the trigger. I hope this explanation kind of describes what is happening, also here are some phots. I put tape to mark how far back the bolt travels in regular firs/semi position. And then another picture show how the bolt will not travel far enough back to re set the trigger in the 3rd FRT position. Does any one have any suggestion for what is going on or how I can solve this issue. And yes when I am closing the upper and lower together I make sure the little safety hook/lever is going inside the Bore Buddy trip kit as shown on the Bore Buddy instruction. I have also tried probably a dozen slightly different adjustments of the set screw, even though I don't think this is the issue I still tried many settings. And I am sure someone will ask so here are the parts, Aero upper and lower, CMMG dedicated bolt group and 22 barrel, SSA-E trigger, also have an FRT lever blocker (I used these in my other 2 Atrius lowers, my local gun shop recommended them)  
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That's typically a trigger side issue with the hammer binding on the reset lever. You can duplicate it with the upper off by pushing back on the lever gently by hand with the hammer down, and then starting to cock the hammer. You want the lever to begin to move freely before the hammer moves too far down. If the lever unlocks very late (close to when the hammer catches the sear) you may run into an issue where the bolt begins to act on the lever prior to hammer clearance, which jams up the system. 22 bolts have a much shorter throw and more aggressive hammer reset surface, so they start to act on the lever via the trip a bit earlier than a centerfire BCG does. |
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Your bore buddy SS trip has the little screw with jamb nut, is that all the way in ie nut flush with the trip body and screw head flush with the nut? This is usually how they ship. Anyway, that screw will adjust reset. What happens as your turn the screw out is the bolt will contact the screw head eariler during rearward travel. My experience using cornfires MARC, very similar to your atrius is the screw needs to be all the way in for me to not get binding in the bolt as it comes back. However, I've seen pictures of that screw close to 1/4" out in other MARC/atrius setups. I'd start backing that screw out, hopefully as you do so the binding becomes less until you have none. Once you have no binding, stop there and give it a whirl. Also, make sure your atrius lever is not binding. Upper off, hammer reset, selector in FRT mode. press the hammer down until it won't go any farther, hold it there and move the atrius lever back and forth thru it's full range. You should feel ZERO binding. If you do, the trigger tail needs some attention. Fyi, we have a "rate of fire triggers" sub forum that will get you more help. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Rate-of-Fire-Triggers/130/ |
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Originally Posted By Renaissancemann: That's typically a trigger side issue with the hammer binding on the reset lever. You can duplicate it with the upper off by pushing back on the lever gently by hand with the hammer down, and then starting to cock the hammer. You want the lever to begin to move freely before the hammer moves too far down. If the lever unlocks very late (close to when the hammer catches the sear) you may run into an issue where the bolt begins to act on the lever prior to hammer clearance, which jams up the system. 22 bolts have a much shorter throw and more aggressive hammer reset surface, so they start to act on the lever via the trip a bit earlier than a centerfire BCG does. Originally Posted By Renaissancemann: That's typically a trigger side issue with the hammer binding on the reset lever. You can duplicate it with the upper off by pushing back on the lever gently by hand with the hammer down, and then starting to cock the hammer. You want the lever to begin to move freely before the hammer moves too far down. If the lever unlocks very late (close to when the hammer catches the sear) you may run into an issue where the bolt begins to act on the lever prior to hammer clearance, which jams up the system. 22 bolts have a much shorter throw and more aggressive hammer reset surface, so they start to act on the lever via the trip a bit earlier than a centerfire BCG does. Yes this is exactly what is happening, with the upper off as a push the hammer down if I apply pressure to the Atrius lever at the same time it stays up until just about when the hammer click in the sear then it falls all the way down. I just pulled my other lower off from a regular 5.56 rifle and it does the same thing. If this is the case do you have any suggestion on how to solve this issue? Originally Posted By shultz: Your bore buddy SS trip has the little screw with jamb nut, is that all the way in ie nut flush with the trip body and screw head flush with the nut? This is usually how they ship. Anyway, that screw will adjust reset. What happens as your turn the screw out is the bolt will contact the screw head eariler during rearward travel. My experience using cornfires MARC, very similar to your atrius is the screw needs to be all the way in for me to not get binding in the bolt as it comes back. However, I've seen pictures of that screw close to 1/4" out in other MARC/atrius setups. I'd start backing that screw out, hopefully as you do so the binding becomes less until you have none. Once you have no binding, stop there and give it a whirl. Also, make sure your atrius lever is not binding. Upper off, hammer reset, selector in FRT mode. press the hammer down until it won't go any farther, hold it there and move the atrius lever back and forth thru it's full range. You should feel ZERO binding. If you do, the trigger tail needs some attention. Fyi, we have a "rate of fire triggers" sub forum that will get you more help. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Rate-of-Fire-Triggers/130/ Yes the set screw with the jam nut is screwed as far in as it will go. I have already tried backing it out about 1/4 turn then testing it over and over 1/4 turn at a time about a dozen times and did not notice any difference. So I screwed it tight back in how it came from Bore Buddy. I guess ill try backing it about more aggressively and see how that goes. I provide feedback on how that goes in a little bit. Yes the lever moves freely with the hammer reset and the selector in the 3rd FRT position the lever flops around with ease. no binding or stiffness. |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Yes this is exactly what is happening, with the upper off as a push the hammer down if I apply pressure to the Atrius lever at the same time it stays up until just about when the hammer click in the sear then it falls all the way down. I just pulled my other lower off from a regular 5.56 rifle and it does the same thing. If this is the case do you have any suggestion on how to solve this issue? Yes the set screw with the jam nut is screwed as far in as it will go. I have already tried backing it out about 1/4 turn then testing it over and over 1/4 turn at a time about a dozen times and did not notice any difference. So I screwed it tight back in how it came from Bore Buddy. I guess ill try backing it about more aggressively and see how that goes. I provide feedback on how that goes in a little bit. Yes the lever moves freely with the hammer reset and the selector in the 3rd FRT position the lever flops around with ease. no binding or stiffness. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Well that all sounds good. Try adjusting the screw farther out but I have a feeling this is not your issue. Take an 1/8th inch drill bit or anything about the same diameter. Lay it across the lower directly above the takedown pin hole, your lever should move to the rear far enough to trap the drill bit or what ever you happened to use. If it won't you need to clearance the shelf in the lower until it will. The lever could also be binding on the rear of the auto sear pocket on the upper. It's not uncommon for some uppers to need material removed to give the lever clearance. Well I tried backing it way way out like I had it almost 3/4" out (turns out that set screw is really long) but this actually made it worse the bolt was binding even sooner that where it was before. So I tried the reverse and actually removed the entire set screw to gain more clearance that way but no joy. Same thing its binding up still. I am not 100% sure I fully grasp your drill bit trapping test but here goes my first attempt and that is a 1/8" drill bit: 
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Well I tried backing it way way out like I had it almost 3/4" out (turns out that set screw is really long) but this actually made it worse the bolt was binding even sooner that where it was before. So I tried the reverse and actually removed the entire set screw to gain more clearance that way but no joy. Same thing its binding up still. I am not 100% sure I fully grasp your drill bit trapping test but here goes my first attempt and that is a 1/8" drill bit: https://i.postimg.cc/MTjVqNnr/IMG-2925.jpg I dont recall seeing this, What trigger group are you're using? NVM, I see SSA-E and your using the lever blocker.... |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Close, the lever should be able to trap the drill bit under the curved portion. Re thinking this, it shouldn't be an issue when using the bore Buddy trip, the lever dosen't move as far as it would for say 5.56... Ahh I gotchya, the lever should really be almost "laying" on top of the drill bit. Well thank you for all the input it is much appreciated! And yes if you have any other ideas please let me know I am stumped by this one and would really like to git it figured out as I am so close but yet so far. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Ok, this was my experience when I switched from a SS. I had the screw pretty far out to get positive resets on the previous SS setup. When I switched to the MARC/Atrius style lever I had to run the screw all the way back in to eliminate bolt binding. But, like I said eariler, some have had to run that screw pretty far out when using the MARC/Atrius lever style FRT. I dont recall seeing this, What trigger group are you're using? Thanks for the help, as mentioned earlier I tried backing it way way out like I had it almost 3/4" out (turns out that set screw is really long) but this actually made it worse the bolt was binding even sooner that where it was before. So I tried the reverse and actually removed the entire set screw to gain more clearance that way but no joy. Same thing its binding up still. Its a Geissele SSA-E |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Thanks for the help, as mentioned earlier I tried backing it way way out like I had it almost 3/4" out (turns out that set screw is really long) but this actually made it worse the bolt was binding even sooner that where it was before. So I tried the reverse and actually removed the entire set screw to gain more clearance that way but no joy. Same thing its binding up still. Its a Geissele SSA-E Edit. Actually, the big Atrius thread is in GD...here https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Atrius-3-position-FRT/5-2795005/ |
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Do you happen to have a mil-spec, schmid, PSA EPT ect that has a rear profile that looks like this? Attached File If you do, might install it for now. It won't be G$ nice but maybe you can have some fun until you get the issue resolved assuming it's related to the SSA-E and I think it may be... |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Do you happen to have a mil-spec, schmid, PSA EPT ect that has a rear profile that looks like this? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/39247/1000005515_jpg-3681501.JPG If you do, might install it for now. It won't be G$ nice but maybe you can have some fun until you get the issue resolved assuming it's related to the SSA-E and I think it may be... Funny you mentioned that. This is next on my list. Well after Christmas ill go barrow a friends lower that has a stock mil spec trigger. I dont have any at the moment, or maybe if im feeling ambitious ill go digging threw the random parts box in my garage if I can find it as I know I should have several mil spec/OEM trigger stashed away but at the moment barrowing my friends stock lower sound much easier. But I am about 95% sure its a trip kit timing issue and not so much the trigger or safety. I have two other lowers with SSA-E trigger and they work flawlessly, also thew this new on a 5.56 upper and it works fine and threw a different lower on the .22 upper and same issue. I am by no means an expert at this kind of stuff but it really does seem like its a trip kit issue. Like it is engaging too soon, the hammer has not had enough time to fully rest to allow the Atrius "hook/lever" to disengage so it is staying locked up. |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Funny you mentioned that. This is next on my list. Well after Christmas ill go barrow a friends lower that has a stock mil spec trigger. I dont have any at the moment, or maybe if im feeling ambitious ill go digging threw the random parts box in my garage if I can find it as I know I should have several mil spec/OEM trigger stashed away but at the moment barrowing my friends stock lower sound much easier. But I am about 95% sure its a trip kit timing issue and not so much the trigger or safety. I have two other lowers with SSA-E trigger and they work flawlessly, also thew this new on a 5.56 upper and it works fine and threw a different lower on the .22 upper and same issue. I am by no means an expert at this kind of stuff but it really does seem like its a trip kit issue. Like it is engaging too soon, the hammer has not had enough time to fully rest to allow the Atrius "hook/lever" to disengage so it is staying locked up. I'm wondering,is the SSA-E hammer is just enough taller than a mil-spec hammer that the very top is hitting the lever before the trip moves it? If I'm right, the very tip of the hammer is hitting the lever and with the lever held by the trip this would certainly bind up the works. I hope this makes sense  |
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Originally Posted By shultz: I've been playing with my setup trying to figure out where your issue may be. With the hammer not reset, if I position the lever where it would be in relation to the trip opening with the trip touching the rear of the bolt as it should be so I can close the upper still leaving a slight gap so I can see what's happening as I pull the CH back(shining a flashlight in the gap helps see things more clearly) as I watch the the mil spec hammer come back is gets really close to crashing into the lever before the trip moves it out of the way... I'm wondering,is the SSA-E hammer is just enough taller than a mil-spec hammer that the very top is hitting the lever before the trip moves it? If I'm right, the very tip of the hammer is hitting the lever and with the lever held by the trip this would certainly bind up the works. I hope this makes sense I have been trying to do the same thing, trying to shine a lite through the small crack to see what is going on and also looking at it with a regular 5.56 BCG to see when it engages. From what I can see while trying to cycle the gun with the rear take down pin out and just a mico gap so I can see a little bit it seems like the BB trip kit is trying to activate the FRT hook too soon as the hammer as not been fully "clicked" into the sear so now its binding up on the FRT hook that is standing strait up. From my very limited experience with FRT setups to me it seems like I need to some how adjust the timing of the trip kit so it engages the hook a little bit later once the bolt has actually fully reset the hammer. But this would mean I need to shorted the aluminum block on the trip kit. I dont know if i really want to already start hacking a slashing a brand new expensive trip kit I have only played around with for a couple hours. But right now looking at the trip kit my thought is to remove the set screw and cut off a little from the other side so it actually engages a little later letting it move that much more with the hopes that this would allow the hammer to be reset and the trip kit to then grab the "loop'" force a reset. Think of trimming this and remove the set screw to gain a little more time on the trip kit. Am I dumb???? 
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Originally Posted By shultz: I've been playing with my setup trying to figure out where your issue may be. With the hammer not reset, if I position the lever where it would be in relation to the trip opening with the trip touching the rear of the bolt as it should be so I can close the upper still leaving a slight gap so I can see what's happening as I pull the CH back(shining a flashlight in the gap helps see things more clearly) as I watch the the mil spec hammer come back is gets really close to crashing into the lever before the trip moves it out of the way... I'm wondering,is the SSA-E hammer is just enough taller than a mil-spec hammer that the very top is hitting the lever before the trip moves it? If I'm right, the very tip of the hammer is hitting the lever and with the lever held by the trip this would certainly bind up the works. I hope this makes sense I went garage digging and all I could find was a super old school colt hammer (one of the large pin ones) so I can't really try it I think I will have to go check my storage unit for stock triggers I have more boxes of junk parts there. But just for fun I kind of half a$$ measured the height of the mil spec colt hammer from center of pin to top and it was actually larger than the SSA-E one. So I dont know if the hammer is really the issue either. I'm still thinking its the trip kit timing.  
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: I have been trying to do the same thing, trying to shine a lite through the small crack to see what is going on and also looking at it with a regular 5.56 BCG to see when it engages. From what I can see while trying to cycle the gun with the rear take down pin out and just a mico gap so I can see a little bit it seems like the BB trip kit is trying to activate the FRT hook too soon as the hammer as not been fully "clicked" into the sear so now its binding up on the FRT hook that is standing strait up. From my very limited experience with FRT setups to me it seems like I need to some how adjust the timing of the trip kit so it engages the hook a little bit later once the bolt has actually fully reset the hammer. But this would mean I need to shorted the aluminum block on the trip kit. I dont know if i really want to already start hacking a slashing a brand new expensive trip kit I have only played around with for a couple hours. But right now looking at the trip kit my thought is to remove the set screw and cut off a little from the other side so it actually engages a little later letting it move that much more with the hopes that this would allow the hammer to be reset and the trip kit to then grab the "loop'" force a reset. Think of trimming this and remove the set screw to gain a little more time on the trip kit. Am I dumb???? https://i.postimg.cc/6pZsgJxj/Screenshot-2025-12-24-211519.jpg No, you're not dumb. As is, removing the screw then shaving the nub would be the only option to keep the trip from hitting the lever to soon. I wouldn't flush the nub without atleast trying to tune first. I'd remove the screw and file a little off the nub then test, repeat until you hopefully get function. If, you end up not needing to flush the nub you could maybe put screw back in sans nut and keep the trip surface true to the bolt. |
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Based upon what you have posted and my ignorance of this particular FRT, it’s reading like the lever in the FRT is binding on either the bottom of the .22 bolt or the engagement area on the back of the trigger. Use a marker on the surfaces where contact is made to see what is going on between them. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Doubtful you didnt check this... Is the hammer blocker possibly interfering with the lever and not allowing it to move a touch more forward towards the hammer? Yes no clearance issue here. Plus I think if this was the issue it would not work in regular semi mode. |
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Originally Posted By Dakota_Don: Based upon what you have posted and my ignorance of this particular FRT, it’s reading like the lever in the FRT is binding on either the bottom of the .22 bolt or the engagement area on the back of the trigger. Use a marker on the surfaces where contact is made to see what is going on between them. Yes the more and more I tinker with it the more I am thinking it is a 22 trip sled issue. I just don't think the timing of it is correct and the adjust that the BB trip kit give you only goes the wrong way. I just can not figure this timing thing out. I now tired removing the extra part on the sled and removing the set screw but now that is to far the wrong way to the point where it does force your finger to rest. It does not bind any more but it does not force your finger to rest. I just works like a regular "semi" you have to lift your finger you can hear is rest then pull, bag. I threw the set screw back in with out the nut so that there was a little extra and the playing around with different micro adjustments of the set screw. I can get it to where I pull the trigger it drops the hammer and I hold the trigger pinned back as pull the charging handle to cycle the bolt I can feel it lifting my finger almost to rest but then I am out of stroke on the bolt/its maxed out. So it never actually fully resets the trigger but its almost there, all I have to do is lift my finger ever so slightly and then it resets. But then if I give the set screw just a hair more then I am back to the same issue where it is binding up. I just can not find that fine line it is either does not force reset or is binding. Next I am thinking of maybe removing some material from the trigger where it engages the Atrius "lever" so that it is engaged later giving the hammer more time to reset and the lever has more play to be out of the was of the trip sled to no bind on. |
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Have you scanned through this thread over in the FRT subforum to see if there is any info you could use to resolve your issue ?? https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Who-here-is-using-a-FRT-with-a-22LR-What-is-your-setup-/130-790783/ I would also reach out to Borebuddy after the weekend to see if they can offer some advice. They are good folks over there and will take the time to answer your email/calls . . |
Occid Vel Occisus Est !!
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Originally Posted By IdahoPCCinc: Have you scanned through this thread over in the FRT subforum to see if there is any info you could use to resolve your issue ?? https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Who-here-is-using-a-FRT-with-a-22LR-What-is-your-setup-/130-790783/ I would also reach out to Borebuddy after the weekend to see if they can offer some advice. They are good folks over there and will take the time to answer your email/calls . . THanks yeah once they are back open my plan is to give BB a ring. I have found them to be super helpful and passionate about there products and helping there customers. |
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New update: I spend a solid couple hours this morning tinkering away and kind of found a combo that seems to be cycle when I just dry fire it and manually cycle the charging handle. I cut the entire "leg" off the trip kit sled and also removed the nut of the set screw so it can go in a little further. I just loctited it in place now that I found a position that I think works. Also removed a little off the backside of the trigger where it engages the Atrius "lever/hook" so that it engages later meaning the lever is not so vertical because it can be rotates back towards the butt of the gun more. Now when I dry fire it and hold the trigger pinned back then cycle the charging handle I can feel my finger being forced forward and fully resetting and then when I release the charging handle I can feel my self pulling the trigger and dropping the hammer again. Fingers crossed I now have the mechanical aspect of it working in theory. Now I just need to go try live fire testing and then adjust bolt weight and spring combos to get it to cycle properly with my can.   |
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New update; did not go very well with the live fire test. Pretty frustrated with the fact that I can not figure this out. After alot of playing around with different ammo and weighting (I have the BB weight system) I could get it to run about 6 round in FRT mode but then dead trigger. Most of the time it was just 2 rounds. But then all the sudden it just stopped working completely and I can not figure out why. Now in the FRT mode no mater what I do it just act like regular semi mode and I can't even feel it trying to force my finger to reset. But when I dry fire it and charge it manually I can still feel my finger being reset I am pretty stumped at this point. I will take any wild ideas anyone has???? |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: New update; did not go very well with the live fire test. Pretty frustrated with the fact that I can not figure this out. After alot of playing around with different ammo and weighting (I have the BB weight system) I could get it to run about 6 round in FRT mode but then dead trigger. Most of the time it was just 2 rounds. But then all the sudden it just stopped working completely and I can not figure out why. Now in the FRT mode no mater what I do it just act like regular semi mode and I can't even feel it trying to force my finger to reset. But when I dry fire it and charge it manually I can still feel my finger being reset I am pretty stumped at this point. I will take any wild ideas anyone has???? When your cycling by hand, it fully resets correct? During live fire its not, also correct? When I was using a super safety I ran into the failure to reset during live fire issue as well. But, the solution for me was adjusting the reset screw out until I had more positive reset it was about 1/4" out from flush. One other mod that helped was using KVP reduced power trigger springs. Full kit, hammer, trigger and disco springs. With these installed the trigger reset was even more positive during live fire and the trigger became a little less sensitive to finger pressure as well. With the SS, just a tiny bit to much finger pressure on the trigger would cause the hammer to skip reset resulting in no bang, dead trigger.Using the MARC, very similar to your Atrius, I had to run the reset screw all the way back in. I'm still using a full set of KVP trigger springs on PSA's EPT trigger. I could probably still cause the dead trigger malfunction if I really pulled on the trigger now but even with a firm trigger pull it just chugs until empty or I let off the trigger. Something the SS would have never done... My only two suggestions would be trying reduced power trigger springs, i think the SSA-E hammer is considerably lighter than mil spec though.. you may end up with ingition issues that I don't have. Also, maybe a small turn out adjustment on the reset screw assuming this dosen't creat binding again... 22lr can be a real PIA to get running FRT! |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Damn, I was hoping once you got the binding cleared up it would just run. When your cycling by hand, it fully resets correct? During live fire its not, also correct? When I was using a super safety I ran into the failure to reset during live fire issue as well. But, the solution for me was adjusting the reset screw out until I had more positive reset it was about 1/4" out from flush. One other mod that helped was using KVP reduced power trigger springs. Full kit, hammer, trigger and disco springs. With these installed the trigger reset was even more positive during live fire and the trigger became a little less sensitive to finger pressure as well. With the SS, just a tiny bit to much finger pressure on the trigger would cause the hammer to skip reset resulting in no bang, dead trigger.Using the MARC, very similar to your Atrius, I had to run the reset screw all the way back in. I'm still using a full set of KVP trigger springs on PSA's EPT trigger. I could probably still cause the dead trigger malfunction if I really pulled on the trigger now but even with a firm trigger pull it just chugs until empty or I let off the trigger. Something the SS would have never done... My only two suggestions would be trying reduced power trigger springs, i think the SSA-E hammer is considerably lighter than mil spec though.. you may end up with ingition issues that I don't have. Also, maybe a small turn out adjustment on the reset screw assuming this dosen't creat binding again... 22lr can be a real PIA to get running FRT! Originally Posted By shultz: Damn, I was hoping once you got the binding cleared up it would just run. When your cycling by hand, it fully resets correct? During live fire its not, also correct? When I was using a super safety I ran into the failure to reset during live fire issue as well. But, the solution for me was adjusting the reset screw out until I had more positive reset it was about 1/4" out from flush. One other mod that helped was using KVP reduced power trigger springs. Full kit, hammer, trigger and disco springs. With these installed the trigger reset was even more positive during live fire and the trigger became a little less sensitive to finger pressure as well. With the SS, just a tiny bit to much finger pressure on the trigger would cause the hammer to skip reset resulting in no bang, dead trigger.Using the MARC, very similar to your Atrius, I had to run the reset screw all the way back in. I'm still using a full set of KVP trigger springs on PSA's EPT trigger. I could probably still cause the dead trigger malfunction if I really pulled on the trigger now but even with a firm trigger pull it just chugs until empty or I let off the trigger. Something the SS would have never done... My only two suggestions would be trying reduced power trigger springs, i think the SSA-E hammer is considerably lighter than mil spec though.. you may end up with ingition issues that I don't have. Also, maybe a small turn out adjustment on the reset screw assuming this dosen't creat binding again... 22lr can be a real PIA to get running FRT! Yes when I cycle it by hand it fully resets but now it seems like not when I live fire but when I first tried it out it was. I was getting 2-3 round burst then dead trigger and after some messing around with the set screw I got up to about a 6 round burst but that was the best I got. Then all the sudden I was getting nothing. It was just running like it was in the regular semi mode. No malfunctions what so ever, I could run an entire mags but it was just like normal semi mode; bang, physically lift finger, then bang again. I tried all different kinds of micro adjustments with the set screw and could not get it to run. So yes maybe your right I need to try some different springs or something. Or at this point in time a totally different setup but I would hate to dump a ton more money into triggers and trip kits. Originally Posted By ELittlefield: I hope you're using a dry fire block, or snap caps or something. You shouldn't be dry firing a 22 AR kit. That will start inducing malfunctions unrelated to the cycling. Yes I always use a dry fire block. |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Yes when I cycle it by hand it fully resets but now it seems like not when I live fire but when I first tried it out it was. I was getting 2-3 round burst then dead trigger and after some messing around with the set screw I got up to about a 6 round burst but that was the best I got. Then all the sudden I was getting nothing. It was just running like it was in the regular semi mode. No malfunctions what so ever, I could run an entire mags but it was just like normal semi mode; bang, physically lift finger, then bang again. I tried all different kinds of micro adjustments with the set screw and could not get it to run. So yes maybe your right I need to try some different springs or something. Or at this point in time a totally different setup but I would hate to dump a ton more money into triggers and trip kits. Yes I always use a dry fire block. When you hand cycle in FRT mode, trigger pinned to the rear, rack the bolt back. At what point does the cam allow you to drop hammer as you slowely close the bolt riding the CH? It should be dropping with around .075-.085 gap between the bolt face and breach face. 22lr just dosen't have the energy of centerfire. Unless I'm really paying attention,I don't feel 22lr resetting in FRT mode generally. The little bit of recoil and softer push on the trigger make it hard to feel the reset for me at least. If it's forcing reset in FRT mode when hand cycling, it's gota be doing it during live fire. Since you can fire semi in FRT mode, ie pull trigger, bang, cycle, then let off trigger and fire again it's forcing reset, just not allowing you to pull the trigger again when it should be. Had a another thought right as I was getting ready to hit submit... How much purchase does the cam lever have on the trigger tail in FRT mode? If the cam is really close to the edge, maybe its slipping off as it resets and does not allow you to fire again without fully releasing the trigger. |
| Out of left field since I've never messed with FRT's. Can you replace that Allen head adjustment screw with a headless set screw so the jam nut can still be used? Mechanical lock rather than Loctite. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: When you hand cycle in FRT mode, trigger pinned to the rear, rack the bolt back. At what point does the cam allow you to drop hammer as you slowely close the bolt riding the CH? It should be dropping with around .075-.085 gap between the bolt face and breach face. . Originally Posted By shultz: When you hand cycle in FRT mode, trigger pinned to the rear, rack the bolt back. At what point does the cam allow you to drop hammer as you slowely close the bolt riding the CH? It should be dropping with around .075-.085 gap between the bolt face and breach face. . It is actually dropping even sooner than that. If I ride the charging handle really carefully the hammer drops with decent gap between the bolt face and breach face, hard to measure but I would say its over .085 so maybe that is another issue??? Originally Posted By shultz: Had a another thought right as I was getting ready to hit submit... How much purchase does the cam lever have on the trigger tail in FRT mode? If the cam is really close to the edge, maybe its slipping off as it resets and does not allow you to fire again without fully releasing the trigger. Thanks you mentioning this!!!! This is exactly what is happening!!! I cant believe I did not think to check this also. With the upper off if I do not reset the hammer and push on the Atrius lever with some force it slips right off the trigger and falls all the way down. If I do this on my other Atrius in my 5.56 guns I can not get it so come off so I am thinking its because I shaved off some material from the back of the trigger. Also when I was dry fire test the 22 gun I was just pulling the trigger and holding the trigger pinned back but with not much force and as I would manually cycle the charging handing I was letting it force my finger to rest and watching it. But if I really pin my finger back with force and manually charge it I do not feel my finger being pushed forward and I can hear a click as the Atrius lever slips off. If do this on my other 5.56 guns even when forcefully pinning the trigger back as I cycle it actually forces my finger forward to allow the reset. So I think shaving material off the back to the trigger really screwed this up even though that is what actually got it to work at the same time. I am going to have to say I think I exhausted all my efforts to get this to work and I am going to need to figure out a different trigger FRT combo Originally Posted By 1811GNR: Out of left field since I've never messed with FRT's. Can you replace that Allen head adjustment screw with a headless set screw so the jam nut can still be used? Mechanical lock rather than Loctite. Yes I could but that does not solve any of my issues just makes for a little bit of a cleaner install on the setscrew. If I ever get this thing working then maybe later I will do that but I would like to solve the bigger issue first of getting the thing to run. |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: It is actually dropping even sooner than that. If I ride the charging handle really carefully the hammer drops with decent gap between the bolt face and breach face, hard to measure but I would say its over .085 so maybe that is another issue??? Thanks you mentioning this!!!! This is exactly what is happening!!! I cant believe I did not think to check this also. With the upper off if I do not reset the hammer and push on the Atrius lever with some force it slips right off the trigger and falls all the way down. If I do this on my other Atrius in my 5.56 guns I can not get it so come off so I am thinking its because I shaved off some material from the back of the trigger. Also when I was dry fire test the 22 gun I was just pulling the trigger and holding the trigger pinned back but with not much force and as I would manually cycle the charging handing I was letting it force my finger to rest and watching it. But if I really pin my finger back with force and manually charge it I do not feel my finger being pushed forward and I can hear a click as the Atrius lever slips off. If do this on my other 5.56 guns even when forcefully pinning the trigger back as I cycle it actually forces my finger forward to allow the reset. So I think shaving material off the back to the trigger really screwed this up even though that is what actually got it to work at the same time. I am going to have to say I think I exhausted all my efforts to get this to work and I am going to need to figure out a different trigger FRT combo Yes I could but that does not solve any of my issues just makes for a little bit of a cleaner install on the setscrew. If I ever get this thing working then maybe later I will do that but I would like to solve the bigger issue first of getting the thing to run. The Atrius should work. I'd try PSA'S EPT trigger as is or with KVP reduced power springs. This should be a pretty nice combo just not G$ nice. keep in mind I'm using a MARC for my EPT setup, love it! I think the MARC/Atrius cam levers are pretty much the same. Or, go with Rise RA-140. Bore buddy has even "certified" this combo to work. Your trip should still work fine, I ran that screw pretty far out for the SS I used for many K without issue before switching to the MARC/PSA EPT. This set up needed the reset adjustment all the way back in, the bolt now hits the trip evenly during reset. I dont think having the bolt hitting the trip unevenly during reset is a big deal though... As for timing, you can get away with a little more bolt gap. This does increase the risk of an OOB. Since these bolts can and will fire out of battery, If you're a lefty be extra cautious, eyepro always, no exceptions! |
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Well my FRT saga continues... Was at the range today and low and behold there was a guy with a 22 running successfully running an FRT suppressed. Got to chatting with him and he was using an Arc-Fire safety, the trigger shoe that came with it and some random milspec springs and hammer he had laying around. He said it just dropped it and worked. He was said he had to do some playing around with different weight and spring combos to get it to run reliable with the can but that was it. So naturally stopped by my local gun shop today, dropped another $250 for a Arc-Fire safety. Threw it and and first go around dry firing it seems to work perfect, no binding at all!!. And I am pulling the trigger back and holding it wight way more force then a would shooting and it is easily forcing my finger forward and resetting. If I did not live in such a busy neighborhood with the can on and some subs I would love to just shoot it in my backyard into the grass to see if it works but ill be a responsible adult and wait until tomorrow to try it at the range. From what I can tell the "lever" at the Arc-Fire is shorter and has a completely different angle than the Atrius one. Also the Arc-Fire lever is much more beefy. I am pretty sure I am still correct that the issue was the lever was standing up and causing the binding because the hammer had not been reset yet. With the Arc-Fire the lever is shorter and the angle is more extreme so I think it gives the BGC enough time to reset the hammer before the tripkit fully engages the lever and once the hammer is reset the lever is no longer and issue so the bolt can continue back with out binding. I am not even close to and expert on these thing but that is just my wild hypothesis. Some pics of the two different style:   |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Well it was an epic fail. Pull trigger, bang, and then dead trigger. I screwed around with it for hours but could not get it to go. But it's so weird when I dry fire it and manually cycle it with the charging handle everything works.  Dead trigger has 3 main causes in my experience. First would be too much finger pressure on the trigger. What happens is because of the lack of force generated by 22lr, a little too much pressure on the trigger causes the hammer to skip over the trigger sear. Or, the hammer isn't reaching the sear, not enough force to over come your finger. KVP reduced power springs help with this IMHO along with trigger discipline. Bolt bounce. If you have a camera with a fairly high speed frame rate you can see if this is happening. If you're like me it's a trial and error thing adjusting the bolt weight and recoil spring weight a stiffer recoil can help, I'm using BB's red spring. The recoil spring tuning kit is helpful for initial tuning. Bolt weight/recoil spring rate will depend on ammo and barrel length. I'm using the aluminum housing, one large and small steel weight along with one large and small aluminum for my 4.5" barrel running federal bulk pack suppressed. Longer barrels or hotter ammo generally need more weight/spring. You may end up needing the tungsten weights from BB if you have a 16" barrel...Last is timing. If the Artius is allowing you to drop the hammer to soon, bo bang dead trigger. Since the trip isn't adjustable for this, it's a matter of removing material from the lever or trip surface... not a road you want to go down until you're absolutely sure it's not one or a combo of the first two causing dead triggers... One more thing that can cause issues. You using a BB buffer? I do, its not a problem for me but it can cause reset issues during live fire that's not present hand cycling. Sadly there is no magic combo that will resolve dead triggers. Any or all of the above can be the cause, figuring out which one or combo of is the hard part... 22lr FRT can be and usually is a HUGE PIA to get going and what works for me may not for you. To be honest, getting 22lr running on a FA lower isn't much, if any easier! |
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Here is 5 pages of my failure. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Who-here-is-using-a-FRT-with-a-22LR-What-is-your-setup-/130-790783/ I feel your pain and sadly have no real help to offer since I am still failing at it myself. |
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Originally Posted By GF99-99: Well it was an epic fail. Pull trigger, bang, and then dead trigger. I screwed around with it for hours but could not get it to go. But it’s so weird when I dry fire it and manually cycle it with the charging handle everything works. Sounds like the clearance/interference issues have been resolved. Now it’s a game of trying to get the weight kit/spring combo figured out. Do you have a bore buddy weight kit? Do you have the recoil spring kit? If not, order them. My 20” upper needed the EXACT combination of 3lb recoil spring(blue) and the steel weight body with NO weights to run 100%. Also MAKE SURE you use good hot ammunition. Mine runs on Federal Auto Match, Federal red box and Remington Golden Bullet. But it CHOKES on the Federal blue box Champion ammo. That ammo is awfully inconsistent. One round should hot, the next makes you wonder if it made it out of the barrel. Keep working on your setup. My .22 FRT setups are what I shoot the most these days. |
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I can see where you're coming from, 'cause I know where you've been and I can see where you're going 'cause I can see the direction you're headed in. I just don't know where the hell you're at right now.
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I’m having a similar issue but with my MARC and the BB artrius trip. my trip doesn’t have any adjustment though. Works in semi but binds so much in FRT the hammer won’t drop at all until I switch back to semi. The MARC cam is in spec. i’m running a single stage mil spec with JP tactical springs. Any thoughts on where to start? did i purchase the wrong trip? |
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Originally Posted By JanJets: I’m having a similar issue but with my MARC and the BB artrius trip. my trip doesn’t have any adjustment though. Works in semi but binds so much in FRT the hammer won’t drop at all until I switch back to semi. The MARC cam is in spec. i’m running a single stage mil spec with JP tactical springs. Any thoughts on where to start? did i purchase the wrong trip? Well the Atrius trip from Bore Buddy is specifically for an Atrius, and the MARC isn't exactly the same thing. The Super Safety trip kit has a range of adjustment, to get Hoffman Super Safeties running with a variety of tolerances. That's what we used for the Atrius until the dedicated trip came out, about 6 weeks ago. Can you describe your binding a little more? Where does it occur? Are you just dry firing so far? |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Well the Atrius trip from Bore Buddy is specifically for an Atrius, and the MARC isn't exactly the same thing. The Super Safety trip kit has a range of adjustment, to get Hoffman Super Safeties running with a variety of tolerances. That's what we used for the Atrius until the dedicated trip came out, about 6 weeks ago. Can you describe your binding a little more? Where does it occur? Are you just dry firing so far? Gotcha ok. ya i’m wondering if I should have went with the FRT trip. Yes just dry firing. with the upper and lower together and the MARC in super safe mode, it feels like it’s not going all the way back when charging and pulling the trigger does nothing. no hammer drop or anything. it if i assemble while in regular semi and then flip the lever to SS it’ll fire once but wont cock enough to do it again unless i switch to regular semi. So everything works but SS mode. |
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Originally Posted By JanJets: Gotcha ok. ya i’m wondering if I should have went with the FRT trip. Yes just dry firing. with the upper and lower together and the MARC in super safe mode, it feels like it’s not going all the way back when charging and pulling the trigger does nothing. no hammer drop or anything. it if i assemble while in regular semi and then flip the lever to SS it’ll fire once but wont cock enough to do it again unless i switch to regular semi. So everything works but SS mode. Originally Posted By JanJets: Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Well the Atrius trip from Bore Buddy is specifically for an Atrius, and the MARC isn't exactly the same thing. The Super Safety trip kit has a range of adjustment, to get Hoffman Super Safeties running with a variety of tolerances. That's what we used for the Atrius until the dedicated trip came out, about 6 weeks ago. Can you describe your binding a little more? Where does it occur? Are you just dry firing so far? Gotcha ok. ya i’m wondering if I should have went with the FRT trip. Yes just dry firing. with the upper and lower together and the MARC in super safe mode, it feels like it’s not going all the way back when charging and pulling the trigger does nothing. no hammer drop or anything. it if i assemble while in regular semi and then flip the lever to SS it’ll fire once but wont cock enough to do it again unless i switch to regular semi. So everything works but SS mode. Not being able to open the action all the way tends to happen for me when I close the receivers, but the trip is out of position, sitting too far forward so that the Atrius lever is outside the pocket. It also can happen if the adjustment on a Super Safety trip is run too far out, but that's not a factor for your Atrius specific trip.  " />
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Not being able to open the action all the way tends to happen for me when I close the receivers, but the trip is out of position, sitting too far forward so that the Atrius lever is outside the pocket. It also can happen if the adjustment on a Super Safety trip is run too far out, but that's not a factor for your Atrius specific trip. https://i.imgur.com/LmOgbOV.jpeg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/LmOgbOV.jpeg That was my thought at first but i know getting it in the pocket. I have to have in semi to do that though when mating the receivers. |
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Originally Posted By JanJets: That was my thought at first but i know getting it in the pocket. I have to have in semi to do that though when mating the receivers. Originally Posted By JanJets: Originally Posted By ELittlefield: Not being able to open the action all the way tends to happen for me when I close the receivers, but the trip is out of position, sitting too far forward so that the Atrius lever is outside the pocket. It also can happen if the adjustment on a Super Safety trip is run too far out, but that's not a factor for your Atrius specific trip. https://i.imgur.com/LmOgbOV.jpeg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/LmOgbOV.jpeg That was my thought at first but i know getting it in the pocket. I have to have in semi to do that though when mating the receivers. Interesting. Can you post some pics? Of the top of the lower, and the bottom of the upper? |
Have you done basic trigger function and mechanical binding checks? Lugnutwrench2 linked a really good video showing how these are supposed to work. jump to 19:00 for the function/binding checks. It's for an Atrius but the MARC works exactly the same... Atrius Forced Reset Selector - How I Tune My Configuration |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Have you done basic trigger function and mechanical binding checks? Lugnutwrench2 linked a really good video showing how these are supposed to work. jump to 19:00 for the function/binding checks. It's for an Atrius but the MARC works exactly the same...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv-RStIYefUI have indeed. funny enough after coming across this video a couple days ago. I’ve got multiple MARCs and not had any issues with binding while function check. it’s gotta be something with the trip. i thought the same thing with the MARC and Atrius being so similar and that’s why i bought the atrius trip from BB. But something isn’t interacting correctly in SS mode and of course with no adjustment on this slip trip not a lot to experiment with. |
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Originally Posted By JanJets: I have indeed. funny enough after coming across this video a couple days ago. I've got multiple MARCs and not had any issues with binding while function check. it's gotta be something with the trip. i thought the same thing with the MARC and Atrius being so similar and that's why i bought the atrius trip from BB. But something isn't interacting correctly in SS mode and of course with no adjustment on this slip trip not a lot to experiment with. Can you post the Pics Elittlefield requested? The next likely place for binding is the lever hitting the auto sear pocket in the upper. |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Great, at least we know the trigger is functioning as it should be. The trip adjustment would not help, adjusting the screw out would make matters worse. My MARC works great with the old borebuddy trip with the screw all the way in, basically the same surfaces on the new non adjustable trip. Can you post the Pics Elittlefield requested? The next likely place for binding is the lever hitting the auto sear pocket in the upper. Yes i will be able to post pics in the morning. with the pocket in the ar22 trips what is contacting the auto sear pocket in the upper? the trip clears it easy are we thinking the MARC lever is catching it by coming out of the trip pocket? Do i potentially need to take a lil material off my trigger tail i wonder? |
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Originally Posted By JanJets: Yes i will be able to post pics in the morning. with the pocket in the ar22 trips what is contacting the auto sear pocket in the upper? the trip clears it easy are we thinking the MARC lever is catching it by coming out of the trip pocket? Do i potentially need to take a lil material off my trigger tail i wonder?  If the lever is not binding during hand function taking material off the tail won't help. It's entirely possible this new bore buddy trip will not work work with the MARC. The MARC and Atruis levers are close but not identical... I've used both with the old trip and each required no adjustment, screw in as far as it could go. Adjusting that screw out even a small amount created binding. I dont know why BB would change the trip in anyway other than omitting the screw and replacing it with a solid surface that has the same dimension as the screw all the way in. Can you make this measurement? I'm curious if BB changed where reset happens. If it's too soon(longer than what I have) the hammer won't be in position(down far enough) and bind up the lever trying to reset the trigger. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By shultz: Disregard the auto sear pocket comment, it's a common problem for anything thats not 22lr If the lever is not binding during hand function taking material off the tail won't help. It's entirely possible this new bore buddy trip will not work work with the MARC. The MARC and Atruis levers are close but not identical... I've used both with the old trip and each required no adjustment, screw in as far as it could go. Adjusting that screw out even a small amount created binding. I dont know why BB would change the trip in anyway other than omitting the screw and replacing it with a solid surface that has the same dimension as the screw all the way in. Can you make this measurement? I'm curious if BB changed where reset happens. If it's too soon(longer than what I have) the hammer won't be in position(down far enough) and bind up the lever trying to reset the trigger. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/39247/1000005984_jpg-3707387.JPG Mine reads .085 on the dot and my trip looks like this |
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I think you have tolerance stacking going on. When I first switched to the MARC from as SS I could not have the reset screw backed out even a tiny bit, it would cause binding. I recently switched to an ambi Atrius, same adjustment worked fine so I didnt try adjusting it out, why bother it works! Just now, I ran my reset screw out to .85. Works fine for the Atrius and get this, a different lower, trigger lever combo using the MARC.... I know for a fact .085 would not work in the first lower,trigger, MARC combo I tried for 22lr, bolt would bind up hard. Do you have a different trigger/hammer you can try? Maybe a different lower? |
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I just took my 22lr set up back to my first configuration. Same PSA stealth lower,trigger, hammer and MARC lever. At .763, reset screw all the way in both sides of the trip contacting the bolt at the same time it works fine. Moving the reset screw to .78 I can feel the reset getting hard and starting to bind... Adjusting to .80 locks it up. Different PSA stealth, different trigger, hammer and the Atrius lever works at .85... At .87 I'm getting that same hard bolt feel that it's nearly binding. At .90 it locks up and will not reset. Bottom line, a few thou makes a huge difference. Tolerance stacking could easily result in a few thou making the trip to long and trying to reset the trigger before the hammer is ready to be reset... |
Atrius Selector with Bore Buddy trip kit (Page 1 of 2)
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