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Posted: 8/25/2009 7:36:13 PM EDT
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In the past it was my experience that RRA LPKs came through with Black Allen Hex Head Cap Screws for attaching the pistol grip to the lower receiver while other mfgs such as Stag and DPMS used Chromed Slotted Fillister Head Screws (Yes, I know CMT reportedly makes LPKs for both RRA and Stag but there were these differences.) Recently, I have come across several LPKs that are reported to be RRA but they have the the plain slotted grip screws in the package which has made me skeptical about their authenticity. I've had good luck with RRA LPKs and would like to stick with them. So my question is, is there any other way of validating RRA LPKs when someone simply shows you a package of lose parts in a sealed plastic bag? Thanks for any comments or suggestions!
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Quoted: In the past it was my experience that RRA LPKs came through with Black Allen Hex Head Cap Screws for attaching the pistol grip to the lower receiver while other mfgs such as Stag and DPMS used Chromed Slotted Fillister Head Screws (Yes, I know CMT reportedly makes LPKs for both RRA and Stag but there were these differences.) Recently, I have come across several LPKs that are reported to be RRA but they have the the plain slotted grip screws in the package which has made me skeptical about their authenticity. I've had good luck with RRA LPKs and would like to stick with them. So my question is, is there any other way of validating RRA LPKs when someone simply shows you a package of lose parts in a sealed plastic bag? Thanks for any comments or suggestions! Quoted: And this pertains to retro ARs...?????  This.  All kidding aside. Every RRA I have bought, which is 4, have had the allen head cap screws. The only other identifier I can think of is the selector switch. On every other LPK and built rifle I have seen, the notch on the right side has been a narrow rectangular "slit" for the most part. Which extends to the middle of the selector, or more. On every RRA LPK I have, the selector has more of a deep, square, notch machined into the edge. And double checking an RRA LPK, (that I bought in the last week), before I hit submit, just to be sure......yes, it is a small square notch just on the edge.  |
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Interesting. Thanks for that information.
On the un labeled kit I picked up (which was purported to be RRA) it does not seem to have that rectangle on the selector. However, it does have two letter "S,s" stamped on the hammer plus the number "4" and the same two S's on the trigger plus the number "2". The "S" makes me wonder if it might be "Stag" from CMT which also makes the lower receivers for RRA. However, every Stag LPK I've seen uses a chromed slotted screw to afix the grip and not an Allen head screw. If I recall correctly the Bushmast LPKs I picked up a few years ago had the letter "B" in a circle on the hammer. I guess it will remain a mystery as to who made these parts. But they look very solid so it may not matter. |
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Interesting. Thanks for that information.
On the un labeled kit I picked up (which was purported to be RRA) it does not seem to have that rectangle on the selector. However, it does have two letter "S,s" stamped on the hammer plus the number "4" and the same two S's on the trigger plus the number "2". The "S" makes me wonder if it might be "Stag" from CMT which also makes the lower receivers for RRA. However, every Stag LPK I've seen uses a chromed slotted screw to afix the grip and not an Allen head screw. If I recall correctly the Bushmast LPKs I picked up a few years ago had the letter "B" in a circle on the hammer. I guess it will remain a mystery as to who made these parts. But they look very solid so it may not matter. |
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Quoted:
Interesting. Thanks for that information. On the un labeled kit I picked up (which was purported to be RRA) it does not seem to have that rectangle on the selector. However, it does have two letter "S,s" stamped on the hammer plus the number "4" and the same two S's on the trigger plus the number "2". The "S" makes me wonder if it might be "Stag" from CMT which also makes the lower receivers for RRA. However, every Stag LPK I've seen uses a chromed slotted screw to afix the grip and not an Allen head screw. If I recall correctly the Bushmast LPKs I picked up a few years ago had the letter "B" in a circle on the hammer. I guess it will remain a mystery as to who made these parts. But they look very solid so it may not matter. ...and a plastic trigger gaurd. 
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Quoted: Who cares? I only use Colt fcgs, other parts don't matter Wow, you are cool. Last I checked this was AR Tech and the guy asked about RRA LPK's. So other than outing yourself for how "cool" you are, and doing some pointless thread stomping, do you have anything to contribute? ETA: That was an unbelievably arrogant thing to say. More so in "retro".  |
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Quoted: Quoted: Who cares? I only use Colt fcgs, other parts don't matter Wow, you are cool. Last I checked this was AR Tech and the guy asked about RRA LPK's. So other than outing yourself for how "cool" you are, and doing some pointless thread stomping, do you have anything to contribute? ETA: That was an unbelievably arrogant thing to say. More so in "retro". I like colt too. That's no reason to shit on some guys thread. I also got an RRA parts kit for my retro lower, since colt parts individually cost TWICE AS MUCH. I don't have it with me though, so I'm sorry I can't be of help. |
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Quoted:
Interesting. Thanks for that information. On the un labeled kit I picked up (which was purported to be RRA) it does not seem to have that rectangle on the selector. However, it does have two letter "S,s" stamped on the hammer plus the number "4" and the same two S's on the trigger plus the number "2". The "S" makes me wonder if it might be "Stag" from CMT which also makes the lower receivers for RRA. However, every Stag LPK I've seen uses a chromed slotted screw to afix the grip and not an Allen head screw. If I recall correctly the Bushmast LPKs I picked up a few years ago had the letter "B" in a circle on the hammer. I guess it will remain a mystery as to who made these parts. But they look very solid so it may not matter. I've recently, (as in a few months ago) used several RRA and several Stag/CMT LPKs. All the Stag/CMT kits had the stainless slotted grip screw and a selector with a "slit" type witness notch as described by Cyclic240B. All of the RRA kits had blued allen head grip screws and the "square notch" selector. Additionally, the springs in the RRA kits were noticeably different from the Stag/CMT kits- I can't remember which was which now, but one brand had a silvery tint and one had a coppery tint, and this was the same in each kit from each brand. This leads me to believe that RRA and Stag/CMT use a different source for these parts. However, similarties existed in the triggers and hammers- both brands had triggers and hammers with a mix of the same markings leading me to believe they came from the same source. I received notched and un-notched hammers with both brands of kits. This leads me to believe that RRA and Stag/CMT use the same source for these parts. All of the RRA kits came in one big Ziploc-type plastic bag with several smaller plasic bags inside dividing up the parts. All of the Stag/CMT kits came in a single Ziploc-type plastic bag with all the parts inside it. My guess is that you were sold a kit that is not a RRA. |
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I'm always curious about the source of all the stuff I buy too. That's why we guys in Retro "seek out" ex-military (USGI Colt FCG parts, for instance), because not only do they have "provenance" (they're the real thing), but, since virtually all steel made today is imported, even brand-new "Made in USA" is no guarantee of quality anymore.
That said, I believe that the new "Colt Defense" has no relation to the builders of the M16, who went broke long ago. So new "Colt" parts may not be much better than the other quality names. All the more reason to look for the real Retro stuff! My 2 cents.. |
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Quoted:
I'm always curious about the source of all the stuff I buy too. That's why we guys in Retro "seek out" ex-military (USGI Colt FCG parts, for instance), because not only do they have "provenance" (they're the real thing), but, since virtually all steel made today is imported, even brand-new "Made in USA" is no guarantee of quality anymore. That said, I believe that the new "Colt Defense" has no relation to the builders of the M16, who went broke long ago. So new "Colt" parts may not be much better than the other quality names. All the more reason to look for the real Retro stuff! My 2 cents.. Would that be the same Colt Defense that currently makes M16s and M4s per the military specifications for the US govt and other militaries? |
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Yes, SS, they still assemble guns in Hartford, but it isn't the same company that made the M16. Just like the "Thompson" you buy today is not related to the WW2 weapon. That company dissolved in 1944. The new one looks similar, some parts interchange. But it's a different company.
My local Targer store sells "Curtis-Mathis" radios, "Philco" alarm clocks and "Polaroid" cameras. See any pattern? Those companies, GM Corp, and "Colt's Patent Firearms", are gone forever. Again, all the more reason for us Retro guys to buy, hoard and TRADE the real stuff! |
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Quoted:
Yes, SS, they still assemble guns in Hartford, but it isn't the same company that made the M16. Just like the "Thompson" you buy today is not related to the WW2 weapon. That company dissolved in 1944. The new one looks similar, some parts interchange. But it's a different company. My local Targer store sells "Curtis-Mathis" radios, "Philco" alarm clocks and "Polaroid" cameras. See any pattern? Those companies, GM Corp, and "Colt's Patent Firearms", are gone forever. Again, all the more reason for us Retro guys to buy, hoard and TRADE the real stuff! 
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Quoted:
I'm always curious about the source of all the stuff I buy too. That's why we guys in Retro "seek out" ex-military (USGI Colt FCG parts, for instance), because not only do they have "provenance" (they're the real thing), but, since virtually all steel made today is imported, even brand-new "Made in USA" is no guarantee of quality anymore. That said, I believe that the new "Colt Defense" has no relation to the builders of the M16, who went broke long ago. So new "Colt" parts may not be much better than the other quality names. All the more reason to look for the real Retro stuff! My 2 cents.. this post is full of ignorance |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Who cares? I only use Colt fcgs, other parts don't matter Wow, you are cool.
Last I checked this was AR Tech and the guy asked about RRA LPK's. So other than outing yourself for how "cool" you are, and doing some pointless thread stomping, do you have anything to contribute? ETA: That was an unbelievably arrogant thing to say. More so in "retro".
Go ahead and buy inferior parts then work your butt off to make them "look" retro. I'll stick with parts I trust. RRA parts are no better than any of the other "also rans". They are not proud enough of their products to put identifying markings on anything except the lower receiver.
See the other threads on how to remove the black paint they use so that they'll "look" more retro. Or, just by the real thing that is marked with a big C on it and know it will not fail you. BTW, all of my bolts, barrels, upper and lower receivers are Colt too
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| Sorry, no disrespect to any of my Retro buds. Original Colt was sold by 1990 to the UAW,State of Conn.and a group of investors. Yahoo it. Later they all went broke. The Colt of today is not the same company that built the M16. Neither is Armalite the same for that matter. They still make good equipment. Each to his own, I just prefer the USGI stuff in the old brown envelopes with the part # on it. |
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Quoted:
Sorry, no disrespect to any of my Retro buds. Original Colt was sold by 1990 to the UAW,State of Conn.and a group of investors. Yahoo it. Later they all went broke. The Colt of today is not the same company that built the M16. Neither is Armalite the same for that matter. They still make good equipment. Each to his own, I just prefer the USGI stuff in the old brown envelopes with the part # on it. I am not even going to get into the bankruptcy matter. but regardless of that nonsense. TDP manufactured parts. are still TDP Mfg parts regardless how the company was re organized and split into the defense wing/civilian wing. one can not be made better than the other. they ar all made to the TDP Milspec. that is something that does not change,,
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Quoted:
Sorry, no disrespect to any of my Retro buds. Original Colt was sold by 1990 to the UAW,State of Conn.and a group of investors. Yahoo it. Later they all went broke. The Colt of today is not the same company that built the M16. Neither is Armalite the same for that matter. They still make good equipment. Each to his own, I just prefer the USGI stuff in the old brown envelopes with the part # on it. All technical truths aside (i.e. military specifications, requirements,and technical data), there's a significant difference between an entirely new company buying the rights to use a trade name such as your example of Armalite, or Springfield Armory for that matter. Not at all the same in the case of Colt Defense, in that the current company is a direct descendant of the previous company. Yes, ownership may have changed hands, but the company remains, in effect, the same and the contracts for the military products they have continued to produce over the years (the M16A2, M16A3, M16A4, M4, M4A1, etc.) require the same level of quality as those they produced 20, 30, 40 years ago. I'm sorry if you can't grasp this concept, but it's really your own fault for stubbornly holding your "old brown envelopes" up as something they are not. Cool, retro treasures- of course, but not something superior to their current military equivalent, especially just because a new owner took over the old company. |
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The O.P. asked about the authenticity of current kits. I maintain my position that they could be from anywhere. A Nodak receiver is "Made in USA", beginning to end. So are Armalite LPKs. RRA? You can't find out. Again, SSc, imagine you have a "new in bag" 1969 M16 FCG and a "Colt Defense" set. One goes in your rifle. The other goes in your safe deposit box. You choose. This is the Retro forum, and there's a "pecking order" of parts here:
Retro USGI niw-great Retro USGI used-also great New "Colt Defense", RRA, Bushy-fine New DPMS, M1S, etc....keep a spare in your glove boxhttp://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140641947 (New Colt Holding Company) |
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