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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Back Packing With Your AR? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/20/2004 11:10:55 AM EDT
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I plan to do some backpacking in Colorado. Maybe spend a whole week out in the mountains. I was wondering if it would be better to take a pistol or a pistol and AR while back packing. I know that carrying the AR around for a whole week would be good practice, but would it really be useful should I run across a big ass animal that doesn't play nice? What do you all think? Lave it or bring the AR? |
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I just got back from there. Depending on where you are going to be, a good defensive handgun will be a lot easier to deal with. If you come across a bear, a .44 mag will do well enough. If its a mountain lion, you will never see it coming and no gun will save you. I have hiked in various regions of CO for about 10 years, and have yet to have any problem with animals. I was up in Pike Ntl Forest and also San Isabel Ntl Forest just last week...if you are going to be above 12,000 for the majority of your hiking, pack as light as you can. If you dont plan to be up that high in elevation, throw your AR on a sling and go for it. In the remote areas of the national forest you can hike for days and not see anyone, but if you will be in the more popular areas, be conscious that the hippies from Boulder will probably call 911 if they see you on a trail with an AR slung over your shoulder...because they are alarmist idiots. Other than that, have a great trip. |
| Here in the White Mts of NH large caliber handguns with 12ga shotguns are more popular with hikers than semiauto rifles. Unless I had some sort of large caliber conversion (.458 etc) I wouldn't want to engage a bear with an AR. Perhaps if I was an expert hunter or something I'd feel differently, but a 77gr bullet doesn't seem like enough against the dangerous game here. |
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There is nothing in the lower 48 that your AR15 will not handle except maybe the Grizzly Bear. Like you, I go hiking and camping in the mountains (mostly NV, AZ, and AK) and I wouldn't even think of going it without my AR15. Since I have seen a few bears in Alaska, I now have a 12ga shotgun. If anything I take my AR15 because of what you said, it's nice to have for the fun shooting (way more fun than a pistol), and you should get some practice carrying it and shotting it. Believe it or not, last I was in northern NV, I rolled with all three (shotgun over the shoulder, 9mm on him, AR carrying handle). Of course, this won't fly if there are people around, but where I go, there is nobody...ever. If you're going to go for a week, that's a long time to depend on a handgun, I would get nervous. Sure the handgun can handle the small stuff and the rattlesnakes but I often worry about the bighorn sheep (mt goats) or the large deer that show up in the evening in herds. On time, a pack of [wild] dogs passed by without incident, they were pretty far out, but I would hate to have to wait until they were within handgun range to engage if necessary. Chances are you won't see anything. 
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My "woods" gun... Marlin 1895s 45/70 Guide Gun http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/30267marlin-med.jpg hug.gifsancho |
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What about a .308 AR or your AK? I'd be more worried about ass-raping pineys that live out in the deep woods, which would put the AR on my packing list. It's too bad shorty shot-guns are frowned upon... how about a Saiga? When are you planning on heading out there? |
| I often go in the local woods with my AR and of course a .45 pistol. I had passed by a guy carrying a shotgun who commented that he didnt like "those things" pointing to my AR. Kinda pissed me off but that's about it. I've even had state troopers stop and talk to me while it's slung and never have they even given me a funny look. A couple weeks back one pointed me to where he's seen some Yotes recently. As long as there is no law against carrying it slung there I'd do it. You'll be far better armed than handgun alone. Although realistically a decent centerfire pistol should handle 99% of anything you'll encounter and weigh alot less too. I might be in the market for one of those carbon fiber bushies soon though, my 20" Hbar is getting awfully heavy to lug around. |
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It all depends on what part of Colorado you are in and the area that you are hiking in (ie. are you in a liberal part of the state? is the place you are hiking populated with a bunch of blue haired, dope smokin, tree huggin, Kerry votin liberals...or are you in an area where you have hiked for a week and not encountered anyone, or an area frequented by hunters an other outdoorsmen?) Location in Colorado can make a big difference. |
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A whole week via backpack is tough if you plan to put some miles on the feet. Whats your food and gear loadout plan? I don't know your stature, what else you plan to bring, food/water plans, etc. Do you plan to fire a weapon for fun or offensively? In any regard, for self protection and a purely defensive point a view, a large bore handgun is sufficient. There is no way I would pack a HBAR or heavier AR for 1 week that would include many miles of travel, not with all the other gear. I have a A2 pencil barrel/Cav lower AR for pack purposes but usually politics and law deem I leave it behind.  I have a equally light .308 bolt gun, again for defense, I rather have the .45. If your packing for a week outside of a post or vehicle, the firearm is probably the least of your immediate concerns. Go as light as you can while feeling comfortable, for myself: a 1911 and 2 mags would do, probably the aluminum framed .45 ultra compact. |
So which parts of Colorado are "friendly"? |
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So which parts of Colorado are "friendly"? Used to live there.....pretty much anyplace not by denver. Jefferson county (lakewood area) and the immediate foothills west of denver has plenty of liberals. Even worse is the mountains immediately west of boulder. There was a great little range in the foothills just outside boulder I used to frequent. Don't know if it's there anymore though. We used to go shoot way out in the san juans by Durango. By far the prettiest place in colorado, and where I want to retire. Great places to hunt and camp out there. |
I would take my .45 with a few mags and call it good. Or you could break your AR in half and pack it and keep it near at night. I have done that, but most likely you would rather not carry another 7lbs. Make sure to carry in a thigh holster for the liberals. And dont forget the face paint!!
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.....wow..... I want one |
If my memory serves me correctly: 1.State parks: usually no 2.National parks: no way 3.National forest: most places yes, but there are restricted areas 4.National grassland: ??? but I would guess mostly ok unless specifically restricted 5.BLM lands: Yes, very few restrictions! |
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I'd take the AR... I would think it has enough juice to give animals second thoughts about eating you... I havent seen any real agressive animals in my corner of the state. I cant say I have ever shot one with a .223 either... YMMV, but I'd feel PLENTY safe with the AR. My bolt guns dont give me much more comfort except with a higher chance of one shot stoppage. But they your stuck with teh reload, and 4 rounds till your empty. Telluride = bad bad hippy town Any ski town = bad bad hippy town |
I think your alot closer to reality. |
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Thanks for the Colorado info. To my knowledge, there are no Grizzly bears anywhere in the lower 48 except for reserves in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho and Washington (mainly Yellowstone). Certainly not in Colorado. That's the only lower 48 mammal that I would think the AR is undergunned. |
Heyyyyy.....I ain't no hippy.| I have been camping/hunting/backpacking in Colorado for 35 years (live in the Denver area). You will not "need" any weapon. I you are really afraid of wild animals, then stay home and watch Animal Planet. HOWEVER, if you really want to take something just for fun, make it light. Backpacking is a lot of hard work already, without adding 5 pounds of gun stuff to the load! I like a .22 rimfire pistol, or a 4" .38 special. |
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I'm actually going to say take a semi-auto clip fed hi-cap rifle in the .223 or greater range. I used to live up in the mountains (north of Idaho Springs), and we would pretty regularly encounter one of the nastiest situations you can find in the animal world, IMHO; Wild dogs. Yup. Feral domesticated dogs. There is nothing like having 10+ 50 to 100lbs dogs that aren't afraid of humans looking at you like you are meat. Pull out a 7 round 1911 and try to deal with that! Or a 6 round .44 mag. Okay, you recognized the threat and sucessfully placed 6 killing .44 mag shots on quickly moving targets that are harder to hit than a man. Good shot. Now can you reload in the time it takes them to get to you while you are at pistol range? WIld dog packs will run off at the sound of gunfire? That's funny, too! Many of these were old hunting dogs that got lost or ran away. They are not afraid of gunfire at all. At the same time, as long as you are prepared, trouble will usually look the other way for some other sucker, and hiking/camping the backwoods can be a VERY pleasurable experience. Good luck, and let us know how it comes out! |
That is one sexy looking firearm. |
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I have a Glock 20 10mm for this reason. It is easy to shoot well (the recoil is nothing like it is rumored to be), has a good capacity (particularly if you can get 15 round magazines) and is relatively inexpensive. It is also lightweight (26 oz unloaded). I have no reservations about the 10mm for most critters, with the exception of the really big bears. Grizzlies are just plain frightening! I don't know about Grizzlies in Colorado. Wouldn't expect there would be many, but I don't know. Hell, life is managed risk anyway. Doubletap ammunition (google it) offers excellent hot 10mm rounds, incidentally. Test everything before you go- I know you would do this, but I am going to say it anyway. I have had jams in most of the firearms I have had (usually magazine problems or ammunition incompatibility). I prefer a pistol to a rifle or shotgun for convenience reasons. I also like to be able to conceal the firearm...cough cough. National Parks are cough cough NOT friendly to firearms. Consider a can of pepper mace- the really big ones. They are said to work. They also say you are a sensitive guy to all the bunny huggin' females you meet on the trail. HaveCheese |
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A lever action carbine is a lot easier to pack. Shape and usually weight. I carry a Winchester m94 trapper in 44 mag loaded with 9 rds of 310gr hardcast lead bullets. It's got a synthetic stock and is about 6lbs loaded. It packs a pretty good punch, it's extremely handy, very fast access if you have it in a scabbard on your pack, and it only cost $340. sancho, I love your guide gun. |
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In Colorado, I take a 357 or 44 wheel gun (holster and in plain sight), Since the only real problem that you may run into will be other people (low lifes looking to rob you). In Wy, Since they do have Brown bears, I strap a 12 gauge to my back (#00 buckshot), even if I am hunting with a HP rifle. Gutting out a elk with your rifle against a tree 15' away isn't going to do you any good when you are being charged. Depending where your hiking, you will need to check the regs to see if you can even pack a firearm. My thoughts are if you can't pack, find somewhere else to hike. |
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Carrying a gun while backpacking is a good idea. I'm not sure about an 8 lb. AR, though. I spend alot of time and research into keeping my load as light as possible. My opinion is the Glock 20 or 29 with 200gr XTP/HP or flat point penetrators (available from DoubleTap ammo - awesome stuff) is absolutely perfect anywhere there are no grizzlies. A .40 cal projectile with 715+ ft/lbs. of energy at the muzzle is nothing to sneeze at. There are no grizzlies in CO. Summer of 2001 I was attacked by an aggressive male black bear on Davos Trail, not more than 1 mile outside of Vail, so I definitely think black bears are potentially dangerous! Cougars are also a potential threat. But, let's face it, humans are still the biggest threat of all and handguns are just fine. If you want to carry the AR, go for it! As long as it's on National Forest or BLM, which is the majority of CO. Yes, the young, city-fied, hippy and liberal type is gonna freak out, but to hell with 'em. You're not breaking the law and, in fact, it's your right. Maybe the heavier power-point soft-point rounds would be better for penetration? |
| Depends on how your AR is set up. My AR has a lightweight 16" barrel and a collapsable stock so it is nice to carry. I'll take it when I go backpacking this fall. I'm going to try to go for a week and a half but I'll have to see how I can work out supplies. In PA the only thing you have to worry about are black bears, snakes, and coyotes. Don't exactly need it but its only 6lbs. Take it. |
That's because you haven't been able to get full house 10mm for years! I'm doin 2 weeks up in Colorado. Taking M4gery and M92FS with lots of mags for both. 
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Ya know, I think we might have overlooked the obvious..... what handgun were you planning to carry? Maybe you just need to select a good hot load for an existing handgun. Personally if legal, and if I have a lightweight AR...I'd carry it. F the liberals. With my existing setup I'd probably carry my M1911 with a couple mags of .45 super. I dont think I'd have much trouble out of a critter after drilling it with 9 rounds of 185 gr JHP's at 1300fps. If penetration is an issue you could load with 230 gr JHP at 1100fps+. |
Hell yeah!!!hippie.gif |
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I wouldn't worry about anything larger than humans. Carry a reliable semiauto in 9mm or larger, or a revolver of your choice. I can tell you from experience that hauling around a 6" SW629 (.44RM) is a pain. A Glock or a 1911 will be more comfortable and will do the job just as well for things that are likely to attack you. Open Carry is 100% legal everywhere in Colorado based on our new preemption law, with the following exceptions: 1. National Parks. 2. Localities are allowed to pass laws prohibiting open carry in specific areas, and those areas must be posted. You can carry in the National Grasslands; it is not considered a National Park. We go and shoot 50's there all the time. |
I can't resist.... that is a horrendous packing job.  WTF is with the full sized axe?
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My simple strategy is, if its Grizzly country I ALWAYS have a Benelli M1S90, 18" barrel, loaded with Brenneke slugs within reach or slung about my person. Thats nothing you want to have to tote very far but I figure a Grizzly encounter is truly life and death serious and close range to boot. I can dump 6-8 slugs on target VERY fast. If for any reason its illegal to have it and Grizzly's are common, I aint goin there (or at least outside the car)! If not heavily Grizzly country, a Glock 21 .45 ACP with a pre-ban bag up the chute and 14 rounds of +P 230gr hardball on board should be adequate for any other "threat" in North America. Won't rust, rugged, tolerant of some dirt, lightweight, fast to reload, adequate penetration, big bullet, big bore, and concealable if it needs to be. If I am looking for "pot meat" I will likely throw either a .22 kit gun or the old AR-7 in the pack. |
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I was in the mountains outside of aspen a few years back with a buddie of mine. I had my Maadi AK, he had his preban Colt. We were just blasting having a good time. We were about 100 feet off the road, when a yuppie mobile land rover stopped on the road above us. This guy gets out of the truck, and yells asking us where such and such a lake was. At that moment he saw my AK (which was down by my side)....his eyes got all big, and he ran back to his land rover and sped off! I died laughing, I can see him to this day, telling the story (in his plush denver law office) how he was jumped by some crazy rednecks in the mountains. ha-ha-ha...... |
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Whatever turns you on pal just pay attention to the legalities. Even though open weapons can be legally carried in an area doesn't mean you can't be nailed for violating hunting laws just cause you pissed off some elitist liberal LEO. I usually cover the bases and have even bought hunting licenses. "I'm hunting grounhogs." or whatever critter is open season year round and legal for the round I'm carrying. Tj |
| I live in the Denver area and own 80 acres in the San Gres, I have never packed anything in the mountains except but my .40 Glock with the first two shots in the mag loaded with snake shot the rest with hydro shocks. I have never found a need for the hydro shocks but I have used the snake shot a time or two. You can take the AR for plinking but a 10/22 is funner. Do me a favor even with a 22 pick up you frickin brass, I find other peoples brass all the time around my property and it drives me nuts. |
must be one of them liberals in Denver we was warned about! Just kidding, actually one of the new S&W 3" AirLite 357/38 revolvers and a couple speed strips of reloads is a good choice for us revolver types. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Back Packing With Your AR? (Page 1 of 2)
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