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Posted: 5/24/2010 4:13:13 PM EDT
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I called up SSA and they told me a great bullet for self defense when barriers are not an issue is the 5.56x45 55 gr RRLP FB Frangible.
They said it creates a devastating cavity which is GREATER than the Hornady 5.56 75 gr TAP! However it lacks penetration through glass, heavy walls, thin metal etc... They said another good bullet to mix the frangible with (SWAT Teams have been known to do this) is the 5.56x45 63 gr Sierra Soft Point or the 5.56x45 70 gr Barnes TSX BT. I have decided to test this out. In the near future I am going to run 5 tests with each of these bullets. The first test will see what each bullet does to 3 watermelons each, cavities, necks etc... will be measured (I will be using ballistic gel but I have always wanted to shoot a watermelon IDK why...) Shot from 10 meters away. The second test will see what each bullet does to 3 phone books each. Cavities, necks etc... will be measured. Shot from 10 meters away. The third test will see what each bullet does to windshield or equal strength glass at 45 degrees, 3 shots each. This test will be calculated by a yes or no when it comes to if the bullet deflected or not...Shot from 30 meters away behind riot shield. The fourth test will see what each bullet does to 3/4 inch thick ply wood. 3 shots each. This test will be calculated by a yes or no when it comes to if the bullet penetrated or not... Shot from 10 meters away behind riot shield. The final test will see what each bullet does to 14.5 inch homemade ballistic gel (ingredient taken from www.customcartridge.com/pdfs/BallisticGel.pdf or http://www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html) shot from 10 meters away. The Riot Shield is/was police issued and we will be using it for protection, as with vests and ballistic eye protection. The experiment will not be done until August sometime because of my activation and my buddy's activation...and of course expenses... We will be using for our tests 16 in LWRC M6A1. We have 4 other ARs in total but all with 16 inch barrels. Pictures will be posted with each result. I always wanted to do my own little experiment and I am now motivated to do so!!! This is my first one (with ballistics, I have done many psychology experiments on felines, controlled experiments on people, and even some on mice...I will write it up in case study format). I hope you guys will like it and are just as excited as I am. Any questions/suggestions? ? ? |
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Suggestions: Skip the test, because it won't tell you anything. Phone books and watermelons are not what I would rely on to draw any conclusions on the effectiveness of this round. [ETA] The 63gr SGK is a hunting bullet, and will provide deep penetration. Performance against hard targets is unknown. The 70gr TSX is a good bullet, although the 62 and 55gr bullets will perform very well. You have to have a 1:7 to stabilize the 70gr TSX. |
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Don't skip the test. You learn by doing. I shot a few .223 reloads through through 8" of phonebook. The bullet went through all of it and kept going. I never was able to recover the bullet. It was a Sierra GameKing 65gr soft point. There was no real noticeable expansion that I could tell from the pages. Granted this was not a frangible bullet, so your mileage is going to vary. If you want, PM me your email and I can send you pics of my results with various other handgun rounds.
BTW, the .40 S&W Hollow Point made a HUGE cavity in the phonebook! |
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I called up SSA and they told me a great bullet for self defense when barriers are not an issue is the 5.56x45 55 gr RRLP FB Frangible. They said it creates a devastating cavity which is GREATER than the Hornady 5.56 75 gr TAP! However it lacks penetration through glass, heavy walls, thin metal etc... They said another good bullet to mix the frangible with (SWAT Teams have been known to do this) is the 5.56x45 63 gr Sierra Soft Point or the 5.56x45 70 gr Barnes TSX BT. If by mix u mean in the same mag....I would have to doubt that any self respecting agency would recommend this, let alone a SWAT team. Most will carry an extra mag with said barrier blind ammo. As for recommending a frangible round....if it is a true frangible it will not do what u expect....frangibles are designed to disinigrate on hard targets, they do not create devastating wound cavities.....most will shoot straight through soft tissue. |
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I called up SSA and they told me a great bullet for self defense when barriers are not an issue is the 5.56x45 55 gr RRLP FB Frangible. They said it creates a devastating cavity which is GREATER than the Hornady 5.56 75 gr TAP! However it lacks penetration through glass, heavy walls, thin metal etc... They said another good bullet to mix the frangible with (SWAT Teams have been known to do this) is the 5.56x45 63 gr Sierra Soft Point or the 5.56x45 70 gr Barnes TSX BT. If by mix u mean in the same mag....I would have to doubt that any self respecting agency would recommend this, let alone a SWAT team. Most will carry an extra mag with said barrier blind ammo. As for recommending a frangible round....if it is a true frangible it will not do what u expect....frangibles are designed to disinigrate on hard targets, they do not create devastating wound cavities.....most will shoot straight through soft tissue. I know, I am familiar with them, I know they will not penetrate, but I cannot exclude that ammo from the testing. As for the SWAT thing the guy made it sound like they loaded the first 5 rounds with the frangible and the rest with different. I am going to continue the test, no matter what like someone else said it is a learning experience and that is what I hope to achieve, a better understanding on how this stuff works and to post it someplace here for others who ma have some questions on the rounds... Also I may be able to get Hornady 5.56 TAP T2 from a local supplier so plz keep your fingers crossed the more the better lol |
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Quoted: I am going to continue the test, no matter what like someone else said it is a learning experience and that is what I hope to achieve, a better understanding on how this stuff works and to post it someplace here for others who ma have some questions on the rounds... Not trying to be too harsh with you, but all you'll find out is how the bullets behave in watermelons and wet phone books; nothing else. You are of course free to test what you want, but don't draw any conclusions about the bullets beyond watermelons and wet phone books. |
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I am going to continue the test, no matter what like someone else said it is a learning experience and that is what I hope to achieve, a better understanding on how this stuff works and to post it someplace here for others who ma have some questions on the rounds... Not trying to be too harsh with you, but all you'll find out is how the bullets behave in watermelons and wet phone books; nothing else. You are of course free to test what you want, but don't draw any conclusions about the bullets beyond watermelons and wet phone books. I am using ballistics gel too, I do not think testing was done on the frangible round I am using nor the SP I could be wrong though. I know your not trying to be harsh and just trying to give advice which I thank you form but cmon who doesn't want to know what each bullet will do to a watermelon? |
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I called up SSA and they told me a great bullet for self defense when barriers are not an issue is the 5.56x45 55 gr RRLP FB Frangible. They said it creates a devastating cavity which is GREATER than the Hornady 5.56 75 gr TAP! However it lacks penetration through glass, heavy walls, thin metal etc... They said another good bullet to mix the frangible with (SWAT Teams have been known to do this) is the 5.56x45 63 gr Sierra Soft Point or the 5.56x45 70 gr Barnes TSX BT. If by mix u mean in the same mag....I would have to doubt that any self respecting agency would recommend this, let alone a SWAT team. Most will carry an extra mag with said barrier blind ammo. As for recommending a frangible round....if it is a true frangible it will not do what u expect....frangibles are designed to disinigrate on hard targets, they do not create devastating wound cavities.....most will shoot straight through soft tissue. I know, I am familiar with them, I know they will not penetrate . . . Yes, they will. . . . frangible round "went through 8 boards and bounced off the 9th board." 
Courtesy of Old Painless |
| I have shot several hogs with the Winchester 5.56 frangible from Ammunition to Go. It killed them good. I remember on this one small female I did look for exit wound and there were none. On the bigger hogs there is never an exit wound from a 5.56 round anyway but that small female would have had an exit would with say a full metal jacket. I keep a mag full of frangible because they dont ricochet and my grove has neighbors. Anybody who has shot tracer rounds know exactly what Im talking about. |
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Don't skip the test. You learn by doing. I shot a few .223 reloads through through 8" of phonebook. The bullet went through all of it and kept going. I never was able to recover the bullet. It was a Sierra GameKing 65gr soft point. There was no real noticeable expansion that I could tell from the pages. Granted this was not a frangible bullet, so your mileage is going to vary. If you want, PM me your email and I can send you pics of my results with various other handgun rounds. BTW, the .40 S&W Hollow Point made a HUGE cavity in the phonebook! Are you planning on being attacked by phone books? How a bullet acts in a phone book does not mean shit about how it will act in anything but a phone book. |
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Don't skip the test. You learn by doing. I shot a few .223 reloads through through 8" of phonebook. The bullet went through all of it and kept going. I never was able to recover the bullet. It was a Sierra GameKing 65gr soft point. There was no real noticeable expansion that I could tell from the pages. Granted this was not a frangible bullet, so your mileage is going to vary. If you want, PM me your email and I can send you pics of my results with various other handgun rounds. BTW, the .40 S&W Hollow Point made a HUGE cavity in the phonebook! Are you planning on being attacked by phone books? How a bullet acts in a phone book does not mean shit about how it will act in anything but a phone book. You could say the same thing about ballistics gelatin as well! 
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Don't skip the test. You learn by doing. I shot a few .223 reloads through through 8" of phonebook. The bullet went through all of it and kept going. I never was able to recover the bullet. It was a Sierra GameKing 65gr soft point. There was no real noticeable expansion that I could tell from the pages. Granted this was not a frangible bullet, so your mileage is going to vary. If you want, PM me your email and I can send you pics of my results with various other handgun rounds. BTW, the .40 S&W Hollow Point made a HUGE cavity in the phonebook! Are you planning on being attacked by phone books? How a bullet acts in a phone book does not mean shit about how it will act in anything but a phone book. You could say the same thing about ballistics gelatin as well! uhh no |
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Don't skip the test. You learn by doing. I shot a few .223 reloads through through 8" of phonebook. The bullet went through all of it and kept going. I never was able to recover the bullet. It was a Sierra GameKing 65gr soft point. There was no real noticeable expansion that I could tell from the pages. Granted this was not a frangible bullet, so your mileage is going to vary. If you want, PM me your email and I can send you pics of my results with various other handgun rounds. BTW, the .40 S&W Hollow Point made a HUGE cavity in the phonebook! Are you planning on being attacked by phone books? How a bullet acts in a phone book does not mean shit about how it will act in anything but a phone book. You could say the same thing about ballistics gelatin as well! ...but when those killer tomatoes show up he's set.
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So in conclusion: Shooting phone books and watermelons will not tell you what a round will do in a real world defense situation. But shooting watermelons is a hell of a lot of fun, and any excuse to do so is a good idea! cats are fun to shoot too!
OK the cats thing was just to keep the argument going :) |
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So in conclusion: Shooting phone books and watermelons will not tell you what a round will do in a real world defense situation. But shooting watermelons is a hell of a lot of fun, and any excuse to do so is a good idea! cats are fun to shoot too! I agree OK the cats thing was just to keep the argument going :) |
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