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Posted: 8/11/2006 10:07:10 AM EDT
| How would you guys rate White Oak Armament, Krieger, Noveske, Sabre barrels and any other manufactuer. Which would you choose in a 16" and 20" (bull) application for accuracy. Assume that you can use the best product from each company. I'm just trying to get some opinions. Thanks guys. |
That is not what I asked. Under the assumption that skill level is the same, which barrel is the best product. |
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You won't get any better than a Krieger or Rock Creek barrel. They are twice as expensive as anything made by WOA or Sabre and 1/3 more than a Noveske. Do there ratios translate into the same quality differences? I doubt it, but take a look into a Krieger bore and you'll see why the extra money. What keeps Kreiger out of most accurized military weapons is cost. The DoD doesn't see the benefit of spending twice as much to get what is likely unusable performance. Douglas barrels in an SPR, Schneider barrels in USMC M40A3 rigs, Obermeyer barrels in the Army's M24, etc. These are great barrels too, but don't cost as much as Krieger. Kriegers are found in the new DMRs though. Be aware though, that some of the manufacturers you mention are not barrel makers, per se, but barrel contourers. Krieger, Douglas and Rock Creek actually make the barrels (drill the bore, create and finish the rifling, etc) and do some limited contouring, but Noveske, WOA, Compass lake, CMMG, Sabre and the vast majority of other AR "names" actually contour barrel blanks made by other barrel makers. Noveske, for example, cuts and shapes (contours) barrel blanks made by Pac Nor. White Oak contours Wilson barrels, Compass Lake contours Kreiger and Douglas barrel blanks. The number of barrel makers are far fewer than those who contour and sell them. If a Noveske barrel isn't shooting well for you and you can empirically establish the cause as the barrel rather than your shooting of it, then the likely responsible party is not Noveske, but Pac Nor who created a defect in the bore. Noveske simply cut and shaped the barrel after the bore was finished. But as was said above, a great barrel can easily be undermined by an inexperienced builder or shooter. Screw a flash hider or muzzle brake on too tight and you'll reduce accuracy, torque the barrel nut down too much and you'll reduce accuracy. Also, not that you're a novice, but in general the more novices spend on a gun or gun part, like a barrel, the more they want to "baby" it with too much cleaning and maintanence, which wil also reduce accuracy. If you have the money and don't care about other factors, go with a Krieger. There is something I agree with in the philosophy of buying the best equipment and then learning how to use it. That way you can more easily isolate bad performance to you the shooter rather than lesser equipment. Buy mediocre equipment and you won't really get an accurate gauge of your own abilities as you improve. |
FOR A BARREL BLANK TO SHOOT WELL, IT MUST BE, IN DESCENDING ORDER OF IMPORTANCE: 1. STRAIGHT 2. ROUND 3. SMOOTH THEN, IT MUST BE TURNED OUT BY A COMPETENT BARRELMAKER WHO TURNS IT OUT PROPERLY WITH A CORRECT CHAMBER AND CROWN. LET ME START OUT BY SAYING I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON WHITE OAK ARMAMENT OR SABRE, AS I HAVE NEVER USED THEM. I HAVE WORKED QUITE A BIT WITH DOUGLAS, KRIEGER, LILJA, AND NOVESKE BARRELS, BY COMPASS LAKE AND NOVESKE RIFLEWORKS. THEY WILL ALL SHOOT WITH MATCH GRADE AMMO SUB-MOA. THE KRIEGERS ARE VISIBLY NOT AS SMOOTH INSIDE AND TAKE LONGER TO SETTLE DOWN. THE LILJA AND NOVESKE SEEM TO HAVE A SLIGHT EDGE IN THE ACCURACY DEPARTMENT, IN MY EXPERIENCE, SHOOTING THEM 40 - 60 ROUNDS. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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ALSO GREAT BARRELS. I HAVE A HART BARREL REMINGTON M700 THAT SERVES ME WELL. BROUGHTON HAS A GREAT REP, BUT I HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE. STILL: "IT MUST BE TURNED OUT BY A COMPETENT BARRELMAKER WHO TURNS IT OUT PROPERLY WITH A CORRECT CHAMBER AND CROWN." WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
If you are talking about a true Bull barrel, who are you using for your fluting? You save some weight and increase barrel rigidity (reduced barrel whip). It seems like I remember AR15Barrels.com saying Lilja was the only one that cut the flutes correctly somewhere on this site. edited to add: I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone. I was reading a lot about barrels and it seems like it has something to with stress relieving before and after the fluting cuts. |
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found it >Is it possible to get the barrel fluted? I am not really setup for fluting, but I keep getting requests. The high end barrel blanks like Shilen and Douglas are stress relieved blanks. I want to run an experiment and fire some test rounds before and after fluting to see if it affects the accuracy. My concern about cutting flutes would be that it introduces new stress into the blank. If this is the case, the barrels would need to be stress relieved after fluting to shoot well again. This only adds to the cost of the process... After talking with Krieger about fluting, I now only want to make barrels from a Krieger fluted barrel blank. They are one of the only companies doing it the "right" way. The right way to do fluting is after boring and profiling, but before rifling and final lapping. Krieger single-point cut barrels are pricey, but they are some best as well. from his FAQ at http://www.ar15barrels.com/faq.shtml |
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WHILE I DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO A DEBATE ON THE SUBJECT, I WILL SHARE OUR OWN EXPERIENCE WITH FLUTING HERE AT M.S.T.N. ON AVERAGE, THE MOST ACCURATE BARRELS I HAVE WORKED WITH HAVE BEEN WHAT WE CALL OUR 20" "SUPER-SAM" PROFILE LILJA BARRELS. THEY ARE DONE BY COMPASS LAKE IN THEIR VARMINT CONTOUR - FLUTED. WE NOW FLUTE ALL OF OUR LILJA COMPETITION BARRELS FORWARD OF THE GAS BLOCK. THEY KICK ASS. INDEED, THE BARRELS THAT HAVE WON THE USPSA 3-GUN NATIONALS IN TACTICAL CLASS FOR US FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS ARE THESE SAME LILJA BARRELS - FLUTED. I SUSPECT FLUTING CAN BE DONE WITH NONE OF THE ADVERSE AFFECTS YOU MENTION IF IT IS DONE TO A REASONABLE DEPTH, AT THE PROPER SPEED, WITH THE PROPER TOOLING. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
Thanks for the input. As of right now I have a WOA barrel for the midlength. My next build is going to be a longer setup....but a super accurate semi is still no bolt action. I always buy the best that I can afford. This is a hobby to me, and I like spending money on things that I enjoy....and this is one of them. |
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