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Posted: 7/8/2004 11:12:29 AM EDT
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I understand you cannot thread a post ban barrel until iwhen the 94 ban sunsets, which may not happen at all. That said, in the end I want to have a good barrel, probably from a custom shop and have it threaded to take a title 2 suppressor and swap to FH or muzzle break if I so desire. I like to play, I do not want anything permanent. I was looking at some uppers/barrels, all preban versions. It seems regardless of what manufacturer I am looking at they always seems to have something pinned. Is this pin removable? Legally? Why do they never advertise just a threaded barrel without a FH or something. Perhaps I am reading it wrong. Anyone wanna make this clear? I appreciate it. |
It is common for POST-BAN uppers to be pinned and welded, but new PRE-BAN uppers (that is, newly made uppers only currently legal for use on a legitimate pre-ban lower) are going to have the 1/2-28 thread and no pins. Rock River sells threaded / pre-ban barrels and uppers. It might come with a A2 flash-hider installed -- just unscrew it if you want something else. |
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You can actually legally thread the muzzle on your postban, but it means you must remove the pistol grip and replace it with a BATF approved thumb hanger (like the one sold by ZMweapons) since you can only have one banned feature. It's not that the threaded muzzle is banned, it's that having more than one "assault rifle" feature that is banned. These features are: threaded muzzle,flash hider, pistol grip,folding/collapsible stock, grenade launcher device, bayonet lug. You could remove the pistol grip and replace it with a thumb hanger, thread your barrel and put a thread protector cap like ADCO sells, and be legal. Then, if the ban expires you could replace the pistol grip add your flash hider, whatever you want. The only advantage would be you might not have to wait in line for the gunsmiths to thread your muzzle as they will be swamped come september. I would not keep a pistol grip(or other banned part) at the same location as the rifle if I did this though unless I also owned a preban rifle (then they would just be spare parts for the preban). Most would disdain the thumb hanger, but it is a legal option. |
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Yes, you are right. However, like most I would not want to give up the pistol grip. FYI it is two features and you are missing detachable magazine, but it is an obvious thing that everyone wants in an AR and part of the AR-15 design. If you do not believe me refernce this link... http://www.ar15.com/content/articles/primer/ I appreciate your contribution nonetheless. |
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Actually, the AWB says that a semi-automatic firearm capable of accepting a detachable magazine may not have two or more of the following features: * Flash suppressor * Pistol grip * Collapsible/folding stock * Threaded muzzle * Bayonet mount * "Grenade launchers", or flash suppressors capable of launching rifle grenades. Therefore, you can have one feature from the list, not two. (Don't get your panties in a wad -- remember, detachable magazine is a freebie--plus one from the list makes 2 evil features. Taking two from the list would give you 3 evil features, which is illegal.) Jeremy |
You were fine until you added the following...
You can have ONE from the list and be legal... ONE EVIL FEATURE... You may not have TWO or MORE items on the list.... TWO OR MORE EVIL FEATURES.... OR you will have an illegal Semiautomatic Assault Weapon |
To clarify a bit, the detachable magazine is not one of the listed "evil" features, it is a qualifier, along with "semi-automatic". If the magazine is NOT detachable, or the weapon NOT semi-automatic, you can have all the evil features your little heart could desire. Lonny |
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Quarterbore: I think you're misreading what I wrote:
Or, the easier way to say is that an assault is defined as possessing more than two (exactly two is okay) of the following features: 1. Ability to accept a detachable magazine 2. A pistol grip 3. A flash suppressor 4. A grenade launcher 5. A bayonet mount 6. A threaded muzzle 7. A collapsible/folding stock. I was paraphrasing the AWB and it's confusing since detachable magazine isn't in the list of evil features, but rather included as a defining characteristic. Sorry for the confusion if I was confusing. Jeremy |
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Lol, we all agree. only ONE feature is permitted in a post ban semi with detachable mag. The detachable mag makes it subject to the rule, but is not a feature. Isn't it sad that these stupid pointless rules have reduced us to quoting such ridiculous nonsense. My god where has our freedom gone. |
I still understand and what you said above is still LEGAL as I quoted here as this is one EVIL feature... Add two (2) from the list above and you have a problem... So... in the context that follows...
... which again is legal... Take a semiauto AR-15 with detachable mags with a pistol grip and a threaded barrel... This is two evil features and hell itself will be after you!  Following is accordingly incorrect...
See my post below... |
Taken from www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/semi.htm Okay, here's the actual freaking regulation, under Section 921 and 922, if you have a detachable magazine and two evil features, then you have an assault weapon. Under Section 921 and 922, if you have a detachable magazine and one evil feature, then you DON'T have an assault weapon. As I was trying to say before, the AWB does not consider a detachable magazine to be a "evil feature" but rather a defining characteristic. Thus, the AWB says you can have a detachable magazine and ONE EVIL FEATURE (such as a pistol grip). I think what you're failing to understand is the concept of "two or more" -- two is inclusive. You can have one, you CAN'T have TWO, you CAN'T have THREE, etc. I was stating the law as it was written, not as it is commonly interpreted as a list of seven "evil" features. Please excuse me if my method of stating things is confusing to you. Jeremy |
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Yea it is kind of funny but it is important as some people don't understand the law... Jeremy does understand the law but I am calling him on including the DM as an evil feature as we can't include the DM in the list of evil features. Following is an example... Given a Semiautomatic rifle with a non-detachable magazine (FAB-10 as an example)... You can have all of the evil features listed above including... * Flash suppressor * Pistol grip * Collapsible/folding stock * Threaded muzzle * Bayonet mount * "Grenade launchers", or flash suppressors capable of launching rifle grenades. This is completely legal as the rifle does not meet the qualifier of being semiauto with detachable mags... In this context, we really are not saying the same thing... A normal AR-15 with two or more featurs on this list is the problem and we don't disagree on that! |
You cannot thread a bbl with a thread pattern that will accept a FH or supressor on a post-ban gun. So, if you use some odd-ass thread pattern like .08 pitch metric, or something, you can thread a bbl.. You then need your bbl widgets to be re-threaded for your 'custom' threads, and none of said widgets can be a FH or supressor. In 2mos & some days, it won't matter anyway, the ban is effectively dead... |
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Quarterbore: Good to see we agree on the AR15 example. I was beginning to think that perhaps I was just having a moment where I was speaking a language that only made sense to me.
From here: http://www.titleii.com/BardwellOLD/semi_auto_faq.txt So, if it doesn't have a detachable magazine, then it can't be an assault weapon. I think. So, even though the M1 Garand is a semi-auto, it can be decked out with a folding stock (if such a thing exists)and bayonet lug and flash suppressor, even if built after the ban since it isn't an assault weapon due to its 8-round fixed magazine. Right? Jeremy |
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Yea we were splitting hairs! Just remember though that the law is based on the characteristics so if you take your example you can have the M1 Garrand with all these things as non-DM isn't impacted... HOWEVER ... if you take your Garrand (as in your example) and do one of the M-14 mag conversions so that your M1 now uses M-14 mags the rifle now is a semiauto with a detachable magazine and it can now only have one of the following... * Flash suppressor * Pistol grip * Collapsible/folding stock * Threaded muzzle * Bayonet mount * "Grenade launchers", or flash suppressors capable of launching rifle grenades. Note, AR-15s need the pistol grip so not really much options. With other guns you do have some options and the M1 is a great example in this case... |
Wait a minute hold the phone - you mean such a conversion kit exists? can it be done by mere mortals or must one be gunsmith? (do not mean to hijack topic  )
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The point was beat to death here so I think it is great to move on... It is possible to convert a M1 Garand to use M-14 mags. Obviously you would need to switch to 308 and the Garand receiver did require a fair amount of modification to work but I have seen tis done in the past. Honestly, it may well be cheaper and better to just buy a M-14... Look for me to update this post with a link if I can find somebody that still does these or at least some more info... Updates: Here is a reference: www.fulton-armory.com/M1MagConv.htm Also... Bland Firearms is one company that used to do these! Didn't know how long ago this was but look at this... groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=199502060300.WAA20876%40mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU |
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Regarding using M14 mags in the M1 Garrand I just found this thread... www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=dd670c509b46fa8f14e614df10315294&threadid=92822 Look at the pics and a couple good links in that thread! Also Tagged so I can save the pics and info for later... |
The statute, posted above by someone, does not require or prohibit any specific threading such as 1/2 x 28. You can have your barrel threaded but it is an evil feature unless you cover it with a permanently installed device such as an approved faux flash hider/comp (remember it must be pinned or silver soldered). At least that is the law until the middle of September. |
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I never could figure out: 1) Why is a thumbhole stock the same as a pistol grip, according to the BATF, for the purpose of the AWB, but a thumbhole stock is not the same as a pistol grip as far as importing "non-sporting" foreign made firearms? 2) Why is a CAR "telescoping stock" not allowed, but the "extendable buttplate tac stocks" are allowed? They both go short to long and back again. And... Never mind. My head is swimming. |
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Three points to consider: 1) Its legal to have an exposed threaded muzzle IF it is unable to accept a flash hider. Some gunsmiths have used a 9/16-28 thread (which will not accept a FH) instead of the standard 1/2-28 (which will) to install muzzle brakes without the need to pin/weld. 2) A sound suppressor also acts as a flash suppressor, and so installing one on ANY post-ban rifle, even without threads, would count as an additional evil feature. Unlike a RDIAS, a sound suppressor does not confer any special AWB exemption on the host weapon. 3) I hope this is the last thread of this type... roll on September 13th. |
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