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Posted: 8/11/2012 12:00:02 AM EDT
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Hi
I got a noob question. I don't own a DI AR15 and such American guns are rare where I come from but I have 2 Piston AR15s. Question : Is the bolt part on the BCG the same for both DI and Pistons? Can I just buy a Bolt off Brownells and shove it onto my Piston AR15? Are they interchangeable? I know that the carrier is not the same. The one has gas keys Happy Hunting 
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Short answer: no.
Longer answer: the operating rod needs a face to act against; the gas key is not strong enough and would get pounded into submission. Some piston manufacturers replaced the gas key with a solid piece that provided the surface for the op rod but now I think most just make "dedicated" piston carriers with the face machined in. |
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In most but not all cases any DI typical bolt will work in a piston AR but you need to verify your version will.
Post what version you have and we can most likely comment correctly I have a PWS MK114 which uses a different bolt but any bolt can be used and I have done so to test. The Sig 516 uses a regular DI bolt and even has the gas rings (Not required on a piston) So, most yes some no and yours, well until you say what ya got we ain't saying more 
Wulfmann |
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Guys , he's asking about the bolt , NOT the carrier. OP, What type of piston AR do you have ? Yes, I am talking about the bolt only. :) Its not an American AR15. Its a Pro Armory MK3. A czech piece. I had a look at a spare bolt and carrier that I managed to score in the meantime from the same manufacturer. It looks identical to DI ones I see on the net. It even has a spot for O rings (why a Piston bolt would need O rings is beyond me - but then again WTF do I know). The spare bolt lacks O rings even though there is space for them. I will make the assumption that pistons dont need them? I have yet to strip the origonal bolt that came with the piece. Question: do American made piston AR15 bolts have spots for O rings? The website of this AR15 does boast that it allows interchangeability with other Ar15 parts (doesnt specify which parts though) I ordered a retainer pin and firing pin from Brownells to reconstitute this spare bolt and carrier that I scored. Lets hope it doesnt turn into an abortion :) I live on the ass-end of Africa (South Africa) so it is like living in a cave with little connection to the normal world. That explains my OP :) I should just do what every other African does, and get an AK47 and be done with it hehehe ... instead of fussing with prima donna AR15s 
PS: I also bought a vortex flash suppressor. I like American toys so Screw AKs I say :) Cheers |
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If you read my post you will see I mention piston bolts do not require gas rings.
The piston itself is the end of gas pressure while the DI blows into the bolt itself and is stopped by those gas rings There is no reason to add the rings except it makes the bolt usable in a DI gun if that becomes needed. I have spent some time in SA, Joberg and Capetown etc blah blah. I am surprised the country has not completely self destructed Wulfmann |
| It needs to be a standard bolt. By that I mean a KAC bolt with different lugs wouldn't work, but most standard spec bolts certainly would. They other thing you need to consider is the age of the current rifle and the wear it has endured. While I'd bet you'd have no issue popping in a new bolt, it would be prudent of check the headspace with the new bolt with go and no-go gauges. |
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The groove in the bolt tail is for gas rings, not o-rings. O-rings have a cross section that is shaped like an o and are typically made of an elastomer like rubber.
Now that we've clarified the terminology, some piston manufacturers specify gas rings in the assembly, some do not. Some specify a little spring behind the bolt tail. The reason for either is to control the position of the bolt in the BC to orient the cam pin so it can be inserted in the upper receiver. I have an Osprey conversion and was told to leave the gas rings off, and without the rings or a spring, it's tricky to get the BCG in the upper and is best accomplished by pointing the muzzle at the ground so that gravity keeps the bolt in the forward position until the cam pin enters the channel in the receiver. The Osprey kit comes with a proprietary BC but without a bolt, so it is made to fit a standard bolt, which is really good news if I need to find one in a hurry. If your bolt came without gas rings and the groove they fit in, it was likely to reduce the cost of making the bolt. If it is otherwise dimensionally the same as a standard bolt, then you are in good shape should you need a replacement. Proprietary parts is the biggest drawback to piston ARs in my opinion. I haven't cleaned my Osprey conversion rifle other than after the first time I shot it, to inspect the parts. It bugs me now when I shoot one of my DI rifles and have to clean it. Joe |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Guys , he's asking about the bolt , NOT the carrier. OP, What type of piston AR do you have ? Yes, I am talking about the bolt only. :) Its not an American AR15. Its a Pro Armory MK3. A czech piece. It happens that I know Pro Arms Armory owner and visited his small factory. His bolt are made by him, but they are standard AR15 bolts. So you can use "DI" bolt in your PAR MK3, jut remove gas rings. Hope it helps. |
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Quoted:
The groove in the bolt tail is for gas rings, not o-rings. O-rings have a cross section that is shaped like an o and are typically made of an elastomer like rubber. Now that we've clarified the terminology, some piston manufacturers specify gas rings in the assembly, some do not. Some specify a little spring behind the bolt tail. The reason for either is to control the position of the bolt in the BC to orient the cam pin so it can be inserted in the upper receiver. I have an Osprey conversion and was told to leave the gas rings off, and without the rings or a spring, it's tricky to get the BCG in the upper and is best accomplished by pointing the muzzle at the ground so that gravity keeps the bolt in the forward position until the cam pin enters the channel in the receiver. The Osprey kit comes with a proprietary BC but without a bolt, so it is made to fit a standard bolt, which is really good news if I need to find one in a hurry. If your bolt came without gas rings and the groove they fit in, it was likely to reduce the cost of making the bolt. If it is otherwise dimensionally the same as a standard bolt, then you are in good shape should you need a replacement. Proprietary parts is the biggest drawback to piston ARs in my opinion. I haven't cleaned my Osprey conversion rifle other than after the first time I shot it, to inspect the parts. It bugs me now when I shoot one of my DI rifles and have to clean it. Joe Thanks dude. I also see a spring in the tail end of this bolt. I see the setup more clearly now. I think I am sorted for this piece. Now I have to look at my other Piston AR15 and see what it needs 
I need to keep this gun in peak condition and I need to learn very quickly how the mechanics work. SHTF is coming our way in this country of mine if you know what I mean. Gonna lurk some more... don't mind me 
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It happens that I know Pro Arms Armory owner and visited his small factory. His bolt are made by him, but they are standard AR15 bolts. So you can use "DI" bolt in your PAR MK3, jut remove gas rings. Hope it helps. Thanks! what is your opinion on these guns over all? are they any good compared to anything else in Europe? |
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SHTF is coming our way in this country of mine if you know what I mean. I am surprised it has not already.  
I had dinner with 2 of you politicians and they spent the entire night trying to impress us with their liberal arts education. They seem to have spent too much time reading about Plato's Republic or More's Utopia when they should have studied John Locke. They kept telling the liberal US women journalist how they needed to disarm the whites by changing the constitution and how we would understand with the crazy militias threatening our good old USA. 
They were not pleased at my dressing down 
Wulfmann |
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I am surprised it has not already.
Wulfmann We are hovering between Stage 5 and 6 on genocide watch already, but I digress. I dont want this AR15 to turn into a tacticool paper weight or door stopper. Hence the spare parts purchase drive. Just paranoid I guess. You know how it is in the begining. You buy something (like a bolt) only to realise it was incorrect purchase due to moron-itis syndrome. So its good to lurk around here with the nation of people that invented these fricking guns. 
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How about some detailed pictures of this Czech piston AR . Ok here goes. At worst, it would be interesting to see what the non Americans are doing with this platform AS you can see, the Czechs have shamelessy copied the platform from the Americans
This is the spare BCG that I bummed off someone recently that is made by Pro Armory. Its missing a firing pin and retainer pin. (Hurry up Brownells!) The bolt looks like a regular run of the mill bolt. Also note the Eurotrash G mag attached. http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p507/MallNinjaMan/a18bde89.jpg http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p507/MallNinjaMan/4622d364.jpg http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p507/MallNinjaMan/54c1aa04.jpg |
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They went and crammed a milspec tube (it seems) into the receiver
http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p507/MallNinjaMan/706ab794.jpg |
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Quoted:
I am surprised it has not already.
Wulfmann We are hovering between Stage 5 and 6 on genocide watch already, but I digress. I dont want this AR15 to turn into a tacticool paper weight or door stopper. Hence the spare parts purchase drive. Just paranoid I guess. You know how it is in the begining. You buy something (like a bolt) only to realise it was incorrect purchase due to moron-itis syndrome. So its good to lurk around here with the nation of people that invented these fricking guns.
ZAF Ethnic Groups: 79.5% Black 9.0% White 9.0% Coloured 2.5% Asian Shit, that doesn't bode well for you. How are people allowed to own AKs and ARs legally in ZAF? I read they were all prohibited by the government. Are they all illegally owned? |
My Smith & Wesson M&P used to have a unique bolt which was built-up (fatter) in the gas ring section and used a tail spring to stabilize the bolt in the BCG....also liked how it forced the bolt forward to lock into the breach lugs. 
After sending it back to Smith, learned that they ditched the tail spring and unique bolt and replaced it with a standard DI bolt (with gas rings) .  I was told that since they went with a cheaper DI bolt setup that they needed to keep the gas rings in place to center (stabilize) the bolt in the BCG. I wish I had known they were going to do that or I would not have sent my original Bolt back to them.  Of course the bolt and gas rings stay nice and clean since it is a piston gun.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The groove in the bolt tail is for gas rings, not o-rings. O-rings have a cross section that is shaped like an o and are typically made of an elastomer like rubber. Now that we've clarified the terminology, some piston manufacturers specify gas rings in the assembly, some do not. Some specify a little spring behind the bolt tail. The reason for either is to control the position of the bolt in the BC to orient the cam pin so it can be inserted in the upper receiver. I have an Osprey conversion and was told to leave the gas rings off, and without the rings or a spring, it's tricky to get the BCG in the upper and is best accomplished by pointing the muzzle at the ground so that gravity keeps the bolt in the forward position until the cam pin enters the channel in the receiver. The Osprey kit comes with a proprietary BC but without a bolt, so it is made to fit a standard bolt, which is really good news if I need to find one in a hurry. If your bolt came without gas rings and the groove they fit in, it was likely to reduce the cost of making the bolt. If it is otherwise dimensionally the same as a standard bolt, then you are in good shape should you need a replacement. Proprietary parts is the biggest drawback to piston ARs in my opinion. I haven't cleaned my Osprey conversion rifle other than after the first time I shot it, to inspect the parts. It bugs me now when I shoot one of my DI rifles and have to clean it. Joe Thanks dude. I also see a spring in the tail end of this bolt. I see the setup more clearly now. I think I am sorted for this piece. Now I have to look at my other Piston AR15 and see what it needs
I need to keep this gun in peak condition and I need to learn very quickly how the mechanics work. SHTF is coming our way in this country of mine if you know what I mean. Gonna lurk some more... don't mind me Glad to help. It's good to understand these things inside & out, especially for someone in your position. Hope you never have to use yours in anger. Stay safe. Joe |
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How are people allowed to own AKs and ARs legally in ZAF? I read they were all prohibited by the government. Are they all illegally owned? NO mine is legally owned. AKs and Saiga semi autos are allowed, but are very difficult to obtain permits for. full autos are for those registered as collectors only. And only if you are a collector in good standing with relevant associations. In other words, you have to be established collector and not some mickey mouse dude off the street. From the time I woke up one day and decided that I needed an AR15 till the time I could get one legally, 2 years had passed. You have to establish yourself as a competitive sportsman and build a history of sports shooting with non-restricted weapons, such as manually operated long guns or hand guns. Once you have established yourself as a sportsman or a collector they lift these restrictions and you are allowed to licence as many long guns as you can prove a need for. Or you have to prove how a hand gun is insufficient for self defence and that you need a self loader long gun. The same applies for hunting. YOu have to establish yourself as a dedicated hunter before they lift restrictions for you. Yes, you have to prove a need for each gun you purchase. Whatever you do, never let the American gun grabbers convince you that "proof of need" is a good idea. Rather keep your "shall issue" laws that I have read about. Those sound far better. I avoid illegal gun ownership at the moment. 15 years in an African Jail if you get nabbed with an unlicenced gun. |
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While I'd bet you'd have no issue popping in a new bolt, it would be prudent of check the headspace with the new bolt with go and no-go gauges. I was thinking "WTF is a no go gauge"? ... until I saw it on brownell web site. Nifty little thing. Never saw one in my life before. With these European AR15 guns built around CIP pressure standards coming in to ZA combined with our military surplus 5.56 NATO crap produced locally , it might be worth my while to grab one or three
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