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Posted: 1/20/2009 6:36:49 PM EDT
| Hey whats the deal with these? Im tired of running patch after patch through my AR with my otis kit. Anyone have any experience with them? Im assuming I would only need one and you can just keep cleaning it off. Thanks. |
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Hey whats the deal with these? Im tired of running patch after patch through my AR with my otis kit. Anyone have any experience with them? Im assuming I would only need one and you can just keep cleaning it off. Thanks. They are fantastic. You can wash them in a machine, in a bag, or by hand and let them air dry. They have brass brush bristles built into them, and they get the barrel completely clean in one pass, although I usually do two or three. Beats the crap out of patches. I have them for all of my guns. |
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Good idea in theory.
The problem is when it actually comes to using it. Look at a single patch when you pull it through the first time after you brush the barrel. This is the stuff thats hidden in the cleverly disguised multi-colored bore snake cloth. Then, when you dont thoroughly clean it after usage like most people, all that stuff is still on the bore snake and you're just pushing the stuff you want to clean through the barrel again. If you dont clean the bore snake after each use, that'd be about the same as always using the same mop water to clean your floor. As far as cleaning your barrel goes, get some foam cleaner and let it sit the specified amount of time while you clean the rest of the rifle. Also, make sure to use the push through jags, as the slotted jags require quite a lot more work due to the cloth not fitting as tightly (I consider slotted jags to be next to useless). I think the real jag will end up making the biggest difference in how long it takes to clean, and since the jag actually forces the cloth next to the barrel, you'll actually end up with it cleaner than trying to use a bore snake. (the brush part of the snake is actually the only tight part and the tail is pretty loose, giving very iffy results to how well it actually does. Think how hard it would be to pull through if the whole length of the snake had friction with the barrel.) I think you could even get away with using a real jag with your otis kit, as long as you put the cloth on and then screwed the jag on, then pulled through. I've never tried it myself, mostly because I invested in some nice carbon fiber one piece rods. |
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Bore Snakes are for people who don't give a crap or don't know any better. They do not clean well compaired to a rod, brush, jag and patch +1. However, they ARE useful as a 'field expedient.' I have one rolled up in the buttstock of my AR. Now, if you REALLY are interested in seeing how well you can clean your gun, get some of these: 
I clean and scrub the bore using the regular tools: solvent, patch jag, wire brush, etc. Then I use the yellow patches. I cut one of these in half and put it on the tip of my patch jag. I run it through the bore, turn it upside down and run it through again. I am always amazed at how much crap is still left in the bore! After 10 minutes of brushing, wiping, etc. I STILL get black crap on the patch. I also see brass shavings from the bullet jackets on the patch! Bottom line is, if you really want to clean your bore, you have to work at it! |
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Bore Snakes are for people who don't give a crap or don't know any better. They do not clean well compaired to a rod, brush, jag and patch Wow, I never heard this before?  anyone else feel this way. with all the talk about stuck patches I went the boresnake way and found it super easy. I know easy is seldom better but I thought it was the new wave of innovation.
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I use the Patch Worm without the .22cal adapter to run a Hoppes #9 soaked patch down the barrel and let it sit for a few min. Then I run the boresnake down the barrel a few times, applying some Shooters Choice bore cleaner on the brush in the boresnake.
Then I put the boresnake in a little plastic bowl and hose it down with brake cleaner and work it around by hand to clean it, then hang it over my garage door rails to dry while I finish cleaning the rest of the gun. Then I go with the Patch Worm using the .22cal adapter and a dry patch until the patches come out clean. Then remove the .22cal adapter and run a patch damp with CLP down the barrel to give some oil in the bore while the gun is in the cabinet. I don't like running a rod down the bore of a .22cal rifle. I can't see how this method id any different than using a rod/brush/jag - only difference is pulling the brush/jag down the bore vs pushing it and I don't have to worry about damage to the bore or crown with a rod. ..... |
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Like others had said, its not meant to be used for proper cleaning. Patch and Jag is basically the only way. However, I use my bore snake at the range just before I case up my rifles while the bores are still hot. Then I do a proper cleaning when I get home. +1 exactly what I use them for. |
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Bore Snakes are for people who don't give a crap or don't know any better. They do not clean well compaired to a rod, brush, jag and patch Wow, I never heard this before? anyone else feel this way. with all the talk about stuck patches I went the boresnake way and found it super easy. I know easy is seldom better but I thought it was the new wave of innovation.Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. |
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Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. Now, where have I heard that advice given before.............. |
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I had the opposite experience recently.
I cleaned my .308 with a jag, tight patches, and brush, like I usually do. I cleaned it until the patches were white. Then, since I had a brand new .308 snake, I decided to see what it would do. I ran it through twice, then ran a patch and jag through. The patch was dirty again. I had to repeat this about 8 times, with the snake followed by a patch, until the patch came out clean again. So, in this case, the snake was finding crud in the barrel that the patch and bronze brush were missing. |
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Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. Now, where have I heard that advice given before.............. I don't know!  
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When ya just want to do a quick clean and lube, nothing beats a bore snake. It works even better if you put some oil on the end of the snake. But, however, you can't just get away with a quick clean all the time. Now and then, you really need to break everything down and clean with solvent and use a brush/jag/patch whichever. The snake does not do all that well getting all the metal fowling out of the rifling. But, does a desent job in the field with little to no effort.
Mutt |
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Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. The reverse is also true. Use your regular patch/brush cleainng routine. When you're done, run the bore snake through - you'll be amazed at what the bore snake picks up. |
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Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. The reverse is also true. Use your regular patch/brush cleainng routine. When you're done, run the bore snake through - you'll be amazed at what the bore snake picks up. How can you see what a green and black bore snake picks up? If it was white, maybe. |
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Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. The reverse is also true. Use your regular patch/brush cleainng routine. When you're done, run the bore snake through - you'll be amazed at what the bore snake picks up. How can you see what a green and black bore snake picks up? If it was white, maybe. 1. Look closely at the bore snake. 2. wipe your finger across the bore snake and then look at your finger 3. wipe the used bore snake through a patch or paper towel. In my experience the bore snake doesn't replace brushing, but it's the equivalent of running many, many patches through. |
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Clean a bore you just ran a snake through with a rod, brush and jag and you will get tons of crud out that the snake leaves behind. I use to use a snake and thought it cleaned great. The bore looked shiny and clean. Then I hit it with a real rod and brush and was amazed with the fouling that came out.....I only use the bore snake in the feild now, which for a quick cleaning does ok. The reverse is also true. Use your regular patch/brush cleainng routine. When you're done, run the bore snake through - you'll be amazed at what the bore snake picks up. How can you see what a green and black bore snake picks up? If it was white, maybe. Clean with a patch and jag until the patch comes out white. The run a clean, proper sized bore snake through. Then try another jag and patch. I've been surprised how much junk comes out on the patch. The bore snake gets to junk the patch and jag misses. |
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Clean with a patch and jag until the patch comes out white. The run a clean, proper sized bore snake through. Then try another jag and patch. I've been surprised how much junk comes out on the patch. The bore snake gets to junk the patch and jag misses. Is the bore snake getting contaminants that the traditional bore brush, jag and patch missed? Or is it re-depositing the contaminants left within it's fibers from previous cleanings, and it is this your finding with the follow-up patch and jag? __________________________________________________________________________________ With the traditional bore brush, jag and patch, the brush can easily be flushed of contaminants between passes and you can be sure it is clean. And each pass with the jag gets a fresh new patch. With the bore snake, unless you can wash it completely out between each pass, your re-depositing the contaminants found in it's fibers, back into your barrel. I'm not referring to tossing it in the washing machine between uses, I'm referring to completely washing it free of contaminants between passes through the barrel. __________________________________________________________________________________ My personal opinion, the bore snake concept might be fine for the field, for a hasty cleaning. But I can't see it replacing the traditional method of cleaning with the bore brush, jag and patch. |
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Clean with a patch and jag until the patch comes out white. The run a clean, proper sized bore snake through. Then try another jag and patch. I've been surprised how much junk comes out on the patch. The bore snake gets to junk the patch and jag misses. Is the bore snake getting contaminants that the traditional bore brush, jag and patch missed? Or is it re-depositing the contaminants left within it's fibers from previous cleanings, and it is this your finding with the follow-up patch and jag? __________________________________________________________________________________ With the traditional bore brush, jag and patch, the brush can easily be flushed of contaminants between passes and you can be sure it is clean. And each pass with the jag gets a fresh new patch. With the bore snake, unless you can wash it completely out between each pass, your re-depositing the contaminants found in it's fibers, back into your barrel. I'm not referring to tossing it in the washing machine between uses, I'm referring to completely washing it free of contaminants between passes through the barrel. __________________________________________________________________________________ My personal opinion, the bore snake concept might be fine for the field, for a hasty cleaning. But I can't see it replacing the traditional method of cleaning with the bore brush, jag and patch. That used to be my opinion also, until I tried it with a brand new bore snake. The results were the same––put a patch through afterward and you find crud loosened up by the bore snake. Now what I do is clean with the traditional jag, patch, and brush until the patches come out white. Then, I start alternating a CLEAN bore snake with a patch, until the patch comes out white. After about 5 iterations with the bore snake, the patches come out clean again. |
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Clean with a patch and jag until the patch comes out white. The run a clean, proper sized bore snake through. Then try another jag and patch. I've been surprised how much junk comes out on the patch. The bore snake gets to junk the patch and jag misses. Is the bore snake getting contaminants that the traditional bore brush, jag and patch missed? Or is it re-depositing the contaminants left within it's fibers from previous cleanings, and it is this your finding with the follow-up patch and jag? __________________________________________________________________________________ With the traditional bore brush, jag and patch, the brush can easily be flushed of contaminants between passes and you can be sure it is clean. And each pass with the jag gets a fresh new patch. With the bore snake, unless you can wash it completely out between each pass, your re-depositing the contaminants found in it's fibers, back into your barrel. I'm not referring to tossing it in the washing machine between uses, I'm referring to completely washing it free of contaminants between passes through the barrel. __________________________________________________________________________________ My personal opinion, the bore snake concept might be fine for the field, for a hasty cleaning. But I can't see it replacing the traditional method of cleaning with the bore brush, jag and patch. That used to be my opinion also, until I tried it with a brand new bore snake. The results were the same––put a patch through afterward and you find crud loosened up by the bore snake. Now what I do is clean with the traditional jag, patch, and brush until the patches come out white. Then, I start alternating a CLEAN bore snake with a patch, until the patch comes out white. After about 5 iterations with the bore snake, the patches come out clean again. Do you buy a NEW boresnake each time you clean the rifle now? Or is it simply CLEAN? How do you clean the boresnake? How do you ensure it's clean? |
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How I clean.
1. Add powder solvent to snake (NO9 or Gunscruber) 2. 3-5 passes 3. Wring out snake 4. 2-3 passes dry 5. 2-3 passes cleaning patch and light solvent/oil (CLP Rem Oil) 6. 2-3 dry patches to check clean The most important part. Use a clean patch to check if the bore is clean. A new snake or a fresh one out of the wash will sometimes do as good as a patch. O and always at least oil your bore with a final pass. Otherwise your creating a pressure spike and excessive friction with metal on metal contact. |
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O and always at least oil your bore with a final pass. Otherwise your creating a pressure spike and excessive friction with metal on metal contact. I oil my bore for storage, to help prevent corrosion, but patch dry before firing. Even if a light film of oil was left in the bore, after the first shot or two it would be gone. Some precision shooters like to fowl the bore first with a few shots, before they consider the rifle ready to judge groupings with. I've never heard of these "pressure spike and excessive friction" issues you mention. Do you have any documentation that goes into detail? |
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O and always at least oil your bore with a final pass. Otherwise your creating a pressure spike and excessive friction with metal on metal contact. I oil my bore for storage, to help prevent corrosion, but patch dry before firing. Even if a light film of oil was left in the bore, after the first shot or two it would be gone. Some precision shooters like to fowl the bore first with a few shots, before they consider the rifle ready to judge groupings with. I've never heard of these "pressure spike and excessive friction" issues you mention. Do you have any documentation that goes into detail? Google "strain gauge and cleaning barrels" I like to burnish my high quality barrels with moly. And the 1-2 shots the burn off the oil are also fouling the bore. It's simple physics. How much pressure will it take to push a bullet down a bare metal bore vs a lubed bore? This can cause the bullet to stop in the bore (Microseconds before pressure builds up). 1. primer ignites powder. 2. pressure in case builds up enough to overcome the crimp on the bullet. 3. bullet makes that little leap to the rifling and pressure drops slightly. (Not a factor when ammo is loaded so ogive meets rifling the pressure in the case must overcome crimp and the additional friction of the rifling. 4. if the bullet is a little oversized or the bore isn't burnished or lubed the bullet may stop at that point tell pressure builds up. The overall effect on your barrel is generally neglidgable. Unless your using higher pressure rounds or hot loads where even a small pressure spike could be over recommended limits. The increased heat and friction will also shorten barrel life. In competition some barrels have less then a 500 round expected life. This is where barrel cleaning and burnishing will make the most difference. Most of the damage done from over cleaning is at the crown. I use carbon fiber rods for this reason. |
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O and always at least oil your bore with a final pass. Otherwise your creating a pressure spike and excessive friction with metal on metal contact. I oil my bore for storage, to help prevent corrosion, but patch dry before firing. Even if a light film of oil was left in the bore, after the first shot or two it would be gone. Some precision shooters like to fowl the bore first with a few shots, before they consider the rifle ready to judge groupings with. I've never heard of these "pressure spike and excessive friction" issues you mention. Do you have any documentation that goes into detail? Google "strain gauge and cleaning barrels" I like to burnish my high quality barrels with moly. And the 1-2 shots the burn off the oil are also fouling the bore. It's simple physics. How much pressure will it take to push a bullet down a bare metal bore vs a lubed bore? This can cause the bullet to stop in the bore (Microseconds before pressure builds up). 1. primer ignites powder. 2. pressure in case builds up enough to overcome the crimp on the bullet. 3. bullet makes that little leap to the rifling and pressure drops slightly. (Not a factor when ammo is loaded so ogive meets rifling the pressure in the case must overcome crimp and the additional friction of the rifling. 4. if the bullet is a little oversized or the bore isn't burnished or lubed the bullet may stop at that point tell pressure builds up. The overall effect on your barrel is generally neglidgable. Unless your using higher pressure rounds or hot loads where even a small pressure spike could be over recommended limits. The increased heat and friction will also shorten barrel life. In competition some barrels have less then a 500 round expected life. This is where barrel cleaning and burnishing will make the most difference. Most of the damage done from over cleaning is at the crown. I use carbon fiber rods for this reason. I'll have to read up on that, thanks for the info.
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O and always at least oil your bore with a final pass. Otherwise your creating a pressure spike and excessive friction with metal on metal contact. I oil my bore for storage, to help prevent corrosion, but patch dry before firing. Even if a light film of oil was left in the bore, after the first shot or two it would be gone. Some precision shooters like to fowl the bore first with a few shots, before they consider the rifle ready to judge groupings with. I've never heard of these "pressure spike and excessive friction" issues you mention. Do you have any documentation that goes into detail? Google "strain gauge and cleaning barrels" I like to burnish my high quality barrels with moly. And the 1-2 shots the burn off the oil are also fouling the bore. It's simple physics. How much pressure will it take to push a bullet down a bare metal bore vs a lubed bore? This can cause the bullet to stop in the bore (Microseconds before pressure builds up). 1. primer ignites powder. 2. pressure in case builds up enough to overcome the crimp on the bullet. 3. bullet makes that little leap to the rifling and pressure drops slightly. (Not a factor when ammo is loaded so ogive meets rifling the pressure in the case must overcome crimp and the additional friction of the rifling. 4. if the bullet is a little oversized or the bore isn't burnished or lubed the bullet may stop at that point tell pressure builds up. The overall effect on your barrel is generally neglidgable. Unless your using higher pressure rounds or hot loads where even a small pressure spike could be over recommended limits. The increased heat and friction will also shorten barrel life. In competition some barrels have less then a 500 round expected life. This is where barrel cleaning and burnishing will make the most difference. Most of the damage done from over cleaning is at the crown. I use carbon fiber rods for this reason. I'll have to read up on that, thanks for the info. I've noticed that after hand lapping (100+ passes using JB bore compound) and burnishing with moly that my barrels run cooler. This was most evident on my PSL. I'm sure the JB treatment is doing something as afterword the barrel cleans out easier. |
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SOC,
I read your threads about leaving oil in the barrel. I tried googling "strain gauge cleaning barrels" to no avail, then broke it into strain gauge and then to cleaning barrels and still couldn't find any information on leaving the oil in the barrel for the first shot. Could you be more specific as to where I could read about this, as I am interested. Thanks, myerfire |
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SOC, I read your threads about leaving oil in the barrel. I tried googling "strain gauge cleaning barrels" to no avail, then broke it into strain gauge and then to cleaning barrels and still couldn't find any information on leaving the oil in the barrel for the first shot. Could you be more specific as to where I could read about this, as I am interested. Thanks, myerfire I read about strain gauge barrel testing in relation to handloading a few years back. They tested different variations of loads on bullet variance in .000ths long seating, short seating, crimp etc. There was a bit on barrel cleaning procedures since barrel break in and cleaning is such a hot topic. They tried several methods and shot using the strain gauge. Based on the results from the strain gauge they developed an additional method. When I get into reloading more (likely with cost of ammo going up) I will probably order a strain gauge as well as a chrono. |
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Do you buy a NEW boresnake each time you clean the rifle now? Or is it simply CLEAN? How do you clean the boresnake? How do you ensure it's clean? I just throw the Boresnake in a jar with a tiny amount of Tide. Shake the jar, dump the water, add more water, shake again. Rinse. Hang up Boresnake to dry. Simple. Some people put them in the washing machine but I'm not that brave. I have more than one Boresnake for my most "shot" calibers. |
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Ya know i'm no rocket scientist. But what SOC said about the lubed barrel vs the not lubed barrel really makes sense. But, I still think the difference is negligible. By the way. Those barrels that are past thier life expectancy after 500 rounds. You guys are more than welcome to mail all of them to me. I'm sure I might be able to squeeze a couple more through em before they are completely useless.
Mutt |
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It's a controversial subject. I've seen arguments on both sides concerning oil in the bore. There is also the argument that too much oil in the bore or chamber increases presuure. Ding! Nail on head. You want a VERY light FILM of oil. This is why I prefer Moly. Those that clean with Rem oil or CLP should be fine. If you clean with carb cleaner or gunscrubber you need to run an oiled patch down the bore then a couple dry patches. The concern is striping to BARE metal. |
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