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Posted: 1/20/2011 6:50:48 AM EDT
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How do I fix my mil-spec collapsible buffer tube from turning left to right (approx. 30* worth of turn). I wrenched on the castle nut as tight as I could with the tools available and then staked it, but it still wiggles. If it had a smaller area of movement I wouldn't mind but it can definitely be felt and has become more than annoying.
I have been told NOT to use any sort of loc-tite on the buffer tube threads, but I dont see an alternative. I have also looked into the PWS one-piece stock, here, but thats a good $75 that I don't wanna spend. Thanks for any input, |
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yeah, lets see some pics... something is not right there.... and what were the "tools available"? If i see channel-lock marks on the castle nut, I'm walking out of this thread and never coming back... 
Hell i won't lie... first time i did it, i used a flat head screwdriver to torque the castle nut down. worked
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Time for a new receiver extension (buffer tube). Your present tube probably has a deep groove cut into it from the end plate. The small nub on the end plate, which centers it onto the tube, has been moving side to side–––– cuts a groove into the buffer tube and will not prevent it from turning.
Pictures ? |
| Maybe 30* was a bit extreme. I dont have the rifle with me at the moment, but all buffer tube pieces are present and in place correctly. I was trying to convey that even with a tightened castle nut the buffer tube can still rotate inward and outward a little bit, but this little bit translates into a lot of slant when the stock is on it (maybe 20* was more realistic) and I cant get it to quit doing it. |
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Maybe 30* was a bit extreme. I dont have the rifle with me at the moment, but all buffer tube pieces are present and in place correctly. I was trying to convey that even with a tightened castle nut the buffer tube can still rotate inward and outward a little bit, but this little bit translates into a lot of slant when the stock is on it (maybe 20* was more realistic) and I cant get it to quit doing it. Yeah, something still isn't right. There should be ZERO wiggle. Once again, describe your installation procedure and what tools you used, pics please. best thing to do while waiting for advice is to take it apart and see what the problem is... because there is a problem somewhere. |
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Time for a new receiver extension (buffer tube). Your present tube probably has a deep groove cut into it from the end plate. The small nub on the end plate, which centers it onto the tube, has been moving side to side–––– cuts a groove into the buffer tube and will not prevent it from turning. Pictures ? Not necessarily. That indexing mark is just to help on assembly, it doesn't actually serve any purpose apart from that. If he gets the right tools, there's no reason everything can't be salvaged. |
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Quoted: I used a strap wrench at first then switched to a nice Plier Wrench with a rag to put as much torque on it as I possibly could, before staking it. by squeezing the bloody piss out of the nut with the pliers while tightening, you just increased the friction against the tube, which kept you from getting it tight enough. That nut is thin and it doesn't take much to make it an oval. It might spring back, but then it will be loose again... You NEED a properly sized spanner wrench or a cheap stock wrench... And staking it does nothing for you unless it's tight enough to begin with... |
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I used a strap wrench at first then switched to a nice Plier Wrench with a rag to put as much torque on it as I possibly could, before staking it. by squeezing the bloody piss out of the nut with the pliers while tightening, you just increased the friction against the tube, which kept you from getting it tight enough. That nut is thin and it doesn't take much to make it an oval. It might spring back, but then it will be loose again... You NEED a properly sized spanner wrench or a cheap stock wrench... And staking it does nothing for you unless it's tight enough to begin with... this. or if you really dont care what your castle nut ends up looking like, a flat punch or screwdriver and a hammer can be used. |
| When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? |
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I used a strap wrench at first then switched to a nice Plier Wrench with a rag to put as much torque on it as I possibly could, before staking it. You need a castle nut wrench. Take your pick: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 I own #2 and #3. If I was building rifles everyday, I'd probably invest in #1 as well. Assuming you don't have some kind of bizarro buffer tube, your buffer tube should have a recess for the protrusion on the end plate. |
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Quoted: When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? Yes, that little nub is the locking feature for the buffer tube that keeps it from rotating... |
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When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? Yes, that little nub is the locking feature for the buffer tube that keeps it from rotating... Only for indexing during assembly. It does nothing once the nut is tightened. |
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When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? Yes, that little nub is the locking feature for the buffer tube that keeps it from rotating... Only for indexing during assembly. It does nothing once the nut is tightened. Negative. If the nub was not there and there was no staking, the receiver extension could be loosened by twisting the stock hard enough. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? Yes, that little nub is the locking feature for the buffer tube that keeps it from rotating... Only for indexing during assembly. It does nothing once the nut is tightened. But it DOES keep the stock from spinning freely if the castle nut comes loose by less than a couple threads... |
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When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? Yes, that little nub is the locking feature for the buffer tube that keeps it from rotating... Only for indexing during assembly. It does nothing once the nut is tightened. Negative. If the nub was not there and there was no staking, the receiver extension could be loosened by twisting the stock hard enough. If the stock was twisted hard enough, it would overcome it all anyway. All of the force that keeps the tube from spinning comes from lock nut. The indexing tooth & channel is solely to make the assembly easier when installing a thousand of them at a time. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When I get my rifle back into my hands I'll disassemble it and check the end plate. If it has a notch in the end plate I'll just go ahead and get a castle nut wrench designed just for this job. If the notch doesn't have that notch protruding on the 'inside' circle could the be the problem? Yes, that little nub is the locking feature for the buffer tube that keeps it from rotating... Only for indexing during assembly. It does nothing once the nut is tightened. Negative. If the nub was not there and there was no staking, the receiver extension could be loosened by twisting the stock hard enough. If the stock was twisted hard enough, it would overcome it all anyway. All of the force that keeps the tube from spinning comes from lock nut. The indexing tooth & channel is solely to make the assembly easier when installing a thousand of them at a time. So what's the torque spec on the castle nut? How much torque do you think it takes to shear the indexing nub? Think about it... It's not just for assembly. otherwise you wouldn't need things like the index pin on the barrel either, since you've got clamping force from the barrel nut, right?  |
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If the stock was twisted hard enough, it would overcome it all anyway. All of the force that keeps the tube from spinning comes from lock nut. The indexing tooth & channel is solely to make the assembly easier when installing a thousand of them at a time. So what's the torque spec on the castle nut? How much torque do you think it takes to shear the indexing nub? Think about it... It's not just for assembly. otherwise you wouldn't need things like the index pin on the barrel either, since you've got clamping force from the barrel nut, right?
40 inch lbs... +/- 2" |
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It doesn't shear the indexing nub, it wipes out the threads on the tube, every time.
The indexing pin on the barrel is primarily for... get ready... indexing. Durabo: I believe you mean 40 foot pounds. 40 inch pounds would be hand tight. ETA: Same principals involved in THIS test. Seriously, the indexing nub does almost nothing aside from assembly assistance. |
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It doesn't shear the indexing nub, it wipes out the threads on the tube, every time. The indexing pin on the barrel is primarily for... get ready... indexing. Durabo: I believe you mean 40 foot pounds. 40 inch pounds would be hand tight. Torque Values: Compensator (Flash Suppressor) - 15 to 20 Ft. Lbs. Barrel Nut - 30 Ft. lbs. Minimum, not to exceed 80 Ft. Lbs. to align the next slot in the barrel nut. Carrier Key Screws - 35 INCH pounds to 40 INCH pounds. Lower Receiver Extension (Buffer Tube) Rifle - 35 to 39 Ft. Lbs. Carbine - Tighten the locking nut to 40 INCH pounds plus or minus 2 INCH pounds. from http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=315921 |
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The end plate has a depression that fits into the end of the lower receiver. That depression keeps the endplate centered in place.
The nub on the inside of the end plate helps keep the tube centered when the stock assembly is fit. The steel of the endplate is harder than the aluminum of the buffer tube. If the castle nut becomes loose, the tube can rotate and that is enough to cut into the threads of the buffer tube. Now it is harder to keep the buffer tube centered-up when you try to tighten the castle nut back in place. Sorry, time for a new buffer tube and using the right tools to tighten the castle nut. |
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It doesn't shear the indexing nub, it wipes out the threads on the tube, every time. The indexing pin on the barrel is primarily for... get ready... indexing. Durabo: I believe you mean 40 foot pounds. 40 inch pounds would be hand tight. Torque Values: Compensator (Flash Suppressor) - 15 to 20 Ft. Lbs. Barrel Nut - 30 Ft. lbs. Minimum, not to exceed 80 Ft. Lbs. to align the next slot in the barrel nut. Carrier Key Screws - 35 INCH pounds to 40 INCH pounds. Lower Receiver Extension (Buffer Tube) Rifle - 35 to 39 Ft. Lbs. Carbine - Tighten the locking nut to 40 INCH pounds plus or minus 2 INCH pounds. from http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=315921 It's a typo. See how it calls out for 35-39 ft lbs for a rifle extension? 
The tube is still structurally sound when a small amount of the threads are gouged, it just makes indexing it marginally more difficult. Hit it with some Alumiblack and roll on, unless you're willing to toss a $40 tube over a cosmetic blemish. |
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It doesn't shear the indexing nub, it wipes out the threads on the tube, every time. The indexing pin on the barrel is primarily for... get ready... indexing. Durabo: I believe you mean 40 foot pounds. 40 inch pounds would be hand tight. Torque Values: Compensator (Flash Suppressor) - 15 to 20 Ft. Lbs. Barrel Nut - 30 Ft. lbs. Minimum, not to exceed 80 Ft. Lbs. to align the next slot in the barrel nut. Carrier Key Screws - 35 INCH pounds to 40 INCH pounds. Lower Receiver Extension (Buffer Tube) Rifle - 35 to 39 Ft. Lbs. Carbine - Tighten the locking nut to 40 INCH pounds plus or minus 2 INCH pounds. from http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=315921 It's a typo. See how it calls out for 35-39 ft lbs for a rifle extension?
The tube is still structurally sound when a small amount of the threads are gouged, it just makes indexing it marginally more difficult. Hit it with some Alumiblack and roll on, unless you're willing to toss a $40 tube over a cosmetic blemish. Interesting... well in any event i usually just torque it to as tight as i feel comfortable with and then a tiny bit more.. then stake.. never had a problem. |
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So, I'm more than a little biased, but the HammerHead Rifle Tool is the way to get your castle nut tightened without damage, tricks or gimmicks. When I say tightened...I mean truly tight....no BS...
You may want to start with a new castle nut as well if it's been ovalized (which, can keep it from tightening all the way down, even though it is hard to turn like it's hit bottom) by using wrenches, pliers, one and two toothed castle nut wrenches. Bob- |
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