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Posted: 3/31/2014 2:05:10 PM EDT
| I am in the middle of building an ar15 using a Daniel defense 14.5 carbine gas barrel and a WMD nib full auto bolt carrier and I don't know what buffer weight to use. I want it to be both reliable and cycle all ammo. |
| My experience is a carbine standard buffer worked fine. The DD barrel does not appear to be overgassed. I would wait to see if you need a heavier buffer. I would also suggest, if you are buying separate components, to get and enhanced sprinco spring. That is an excellent investment. You get much mileage on an AR and cheap buffer springs will tend to cause problems which will misdirect you if you are not used to figuring them out. But the DD barrels(2) I have been around have all been fairly accurately gassed. Good luck |
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Quoted:
What's the best way to figure out if the buffer is good or needs to go heavier? Shoot it. Get a regular CAR buffer and an H2. Test with each. Then swap out one of the tungsten weights from the H2 into the CAR (creating an H buffer) and test. The heavier buffers slow the action down to reduce wear. |
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I would go with an H buffer, if you are not interested in going with a vltor a5 system. H buffers should be great with a carbine gas system. If you were only going to shoot 5.56 pressure ammo then I would go with an H2 - that is what Mil rifles have.
Some companies oversize their gas port to run better with weak ammo. I don't think DD is one of those companies. In those cases you should probably go with an h2. In regards to a "need" to go heavier there really isn't usually a need. There can be a need to go lighter, to improve cycling. The heavier you go though the less wear and the softer shooting it is for a lot of people. |
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I start with my weakest ammo and a H2 buffer and work my way down.
Except so far I have not had to go a lighter weight. Also I am using a Tubb’s CS flatwire spring which feels strong in a CAR RE. The military is going to heavier buffers. Considering what it takes to get the military to make a change like that it should be a hint. |
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I use an enhanced (blue)power sprinco. It is a shade heavier than the standard(white). One way to tell about your gassing is to follow your ejection pattern. If your gun ejects forward of straight out to the side(3o'clock) you may be overgassed. That would need a heavier buffer to correct. While this overgassing can be slightly harder on your equipment, if your gun runs good and cycles reliably, what is that worth. I have yet address anything but buffer springs on a rifle. And if you are using the springco springs chances are you won't need to address that. So my point is if you gun runs reliably but is overgassed(within reason) why bother if you aren't shooting competitively in matches. If you are building a self defense, shtf gun I want that thing running reliably. I don't worry so much about it being overgassed. The recoil and muzzle rise doesn't bother me. I don't shoot matches and it's a .223, there is no recoil!!! So I like to build my guns with good parts to cycle reliably. I have used quality barrels and haven't come across one ported so large yet that it effected cycling. I currently have an assortment of FN, ARP, various stainless. They have all cycled fine with a regular spring and carbine buffer. I did put an enhanced spring and H2 in an FN based Centurion. It was way overgassed, but still ran fine on a regular spring and carbine buffer. It ejected very vigorously at 1 o'clock though. It now ejects at 3. Also according to ARF standards the weakest ammo I run is PMC bronze. Which I have never had a problem with but a lot of people on here seem to think its underpowered. I own no wolf, tula, etc. I purposely don't run that. Just a preference, to each their own. |
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Quoted:
My experience is a carbine standard buffer worked fine. The DD barrel does not appear to be overgassed. I would wait to see if you need a heavier buffer. I would also suggest, if you are buying separate components, to get and enhanced sprinco spring. That is an excellent investment. You get much mileage on an AR and cheap buffer springs will tend to cause problems which will misdirect you if you are not used to figuring them out. But the DD barrels(2) I have been around have all been fairly accurately gassed. Good luck 
I dont agree with that at all. There is nothing wrong with standard USGI buffer springs, they probably just dont last as long as chrome silicon. You can get a 3 pack of chrome silicon M4 springs from Brownells for $15... I asked an x-Army armor friend of mine if he ever came across an issue with buffer springs in a M4 and he just laughed. I don't recall ever reading about anyone have a problem that was tracked down to the buffer spring either... I don't drink the cool-aid of the (blue, red, yellow, white, green, orange... whatever color) enhanced sprinco, but thats just me. OP, I would go with a H buffer. Colt 14.5 M4's come with the H buffer so thats what I would go with. |
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I would try and run a H2. If it's too heavy, you can swap a tungsten weight out with a steel weight from a cheap carbine buff. I tired one of Larue's(Springco???) fancy NASCAR springs which made my rifle unreliable. Mil-spec springs work. I usually buy 10 or 20 at a time from Stag, 3 bucks a piece.
https://www.stagarms.com/carbine-action-spring/ |
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Quoted: I dont agree with that at all. There is nothing wrong with standard USGI buffer springs, they probably just dont last as long as chrome silicon. You can get a 3 pack of chrome silicon M4 springs from Brownells for $15... I asked an x-Army armor friend of mine if he ever came across an issue with buffer springs in a M4 and he just laughed. I don't recall ever reading about anyone have a problem that was tracked down to the buffer spring either... I don't drink the cool-aid of the (blue, red, yellow, white, green, orange... whatever color) enhanced sprinco, but thats just me. OP, I would go with a H buffer. Colt 14.5 M4's come with the H buffer so thats what I would go with. Quoted: Quoted: My experience is a carbine standard buffer worked fine. The DD barrel does not appear to be overgassed. I would wait to see if you need a heavier buffer. I would also suggest, if you are buying separate components, to get and enhanced sprinco spring. That is an excellent investment. You get much mileage on an AR and cheap buffer springs will tend to cause problems which will misdirect you if you are not used to figuring them out. But the DD barrels(2) I have been around have all been fairly accurately gassed. Good luck I dont agree with that at all. There is nothing wrong with standard USGI buffer springs, they probably just dont last as long as chrome silicon. You can get a 3 pack of chrome silicon M4 springs from Brownells for $15... I asked an x-Army armor friend of mine if he ever came across an issue with buffer springs in a M4 and he just laughed. I don't recall ever reading about anyone have a problem that was tracked down to the buffer spring either... I don't drink the cool-aid of the (blue, red, yellow, white, green, orange... whatever color) enhanced sprinco, but thats just me. OP, I would go with a H buffer. Colt 14.5 M4's come with the H buffer so thats what I would go with. i can emoticon too.And as for those who have used sprinco's that made their rifle unreliable, what spring did you use? You don't just put any spring in any rifle. You can guess, you measure gas ports and take into account system length and make an educated guess, or you can replace an old spring with a new spring and make an educated guess off of that. I use the blue and the red springs on my rifles. Not one time have I had reliability issues with a sprinco spring. Now I did take the time to make educated guesses as to which springs I needed. Not saying everybody should want to use sprinco springs. I am just saying a sprinco when used in proper application does not make a rifle less reliable any more or less that a USGI standard. But it will out last a USGI spring because it is made of better material. It can offer a bit more buffer reduction with higher tensioned springs. But your system has to need that tension in order to make use of it. If it does not need it, then you will surely not benefit from and may suffer from it. This is just my experience, YMMV. And I just searched Brownell's, I can find no such 3 pack of CHROME SILICON springs for $15, please link if you can I might be interested in trying them in a new build if they are chrome silicon. |
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A standard USGI buffer spring will last around 5K rounds or about. And yes I agree with you on buying a 3 pack. But to each their own. I have owned and believe in the sprinco's. And if your armorer friend has never tracked a buffer spring problem down that is cool. Springs wear out on compression and decompression, period. Cycling causes it. And that is what a buffer spring does when it works is cycle. Therefore, springs made of inferior materials can wear out faster. If you have a problem with my advice take it over to troubleshooting and ask the mods over there. One of them taught one of my armorers class. And he spends a fair amount of time in his class explaining buffer spring wear and diagnosing it. Now i have no idea what spring he endorses or doesn't endorse. The sprinco is my idea because they have served me well for many K's of rounds. I am drinking their koolaid. If you choose not to that is cool. But buffer springs wear out make no mistake about it. And while your advice may not be bad, it is wrong about buffer springs. i can emoticon too.
And as for those who have used sprinco's that made their rifle unreliable, what spring did you use? You don't just put any spring in any rifle. You can guess, you measure gas ports and take into account system length and make an educated guess, or you can replace an old spring with a new spring and make an educated guess off of that. I use the blue and the red springs on my rifles. Not one time have I had reliability issues with a sprinco spring. Now I did take the time to make educated guesses as to which springs I needed. Not saying everybody should want to use sprinco springs. I am just saying a sprinco when used in proper application does not make a rifle less reliable any more or less that a USGI standard. But it will out last a USGI spring because it is made of better material. It can offer a bit more buffer reduction with higher tensioned springs. But your system has to need that tension in order to make use of it. If it does not need it, then you will surely not benefit from and may suffer from it. This is just my experience, YMMV. And I just searched Brownell's, I can find no such 3 pack of CHROME SILICON springs for $15, please link if you can I might be interested in trying them in a new build if they are chrome silicon. Quote from my friend who was an armor at Schofield in Hawaii. "If a buffer spring wears out in even 100,000k rounds I would eat my hat, I never replaced one." Now, that’s way too extreme and I wouldn’t go that far. I wasn’t trying to be an ass, I am sorry that I came across that way. I was just trying to point out how rare it is for them to go out (and when/if they do it’s going to be very high round count). The guy is starting a new build so his buffer spring will be brand new and your statement about “cheap springs will tend to cause problems” is just inaccurate, IMO – as you‘re implying that if you don’t get a Sprinco spring you’re going to have issues... That’s how I took your statement anyway. I am sure Sprinco are very high quality and I don’t think it’s a bad idea to go with one for a new build or at any time… It’s just IMO anyway there is nothing wrong with standard USGI springs and I’d bet most will last much longer than 5k rounds. And the $15 for the 3 pack was with shipping included. |
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Quoted:
Quote from my friend who was an armor at Schofield in Hawaii. "If a buffer spring wears out in even 100,000k rounds I would eat my hat, I never replaced one." While on average, I would agree that the standard recoil mainspring of an AR should last longer than five thousand rounds, your friend's response highlights a chronic problem in small arms maintenance within conventional military forces. Undoubtedly your friend believes that - but also misses the point of PMCS - Preventative Maintenance, Care, and Services. Too many time, the P gets missed - not just rifles, but many other pieces of equipment go through reset - any deadlines are fixed, but no services are not properly emphasized or enforced, which, granted, most things are a lot more durable than their preventative maintenance schedules might suggest - eventually kicking the can down the road long enough bites someone in the ass. ~Augee |
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So if the rifle is dirty or the ammo is a little weaker, say regular .223 and not 5.56 NATO, would a heavier buffer (H2) slow things down too much and harm reliability? Or would the extra weight help?
I have the H2 buffer in my carbine length carbines and use the H in my middies. I'm thinking that the middie gas length doesn't need the H2. |
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There are too many variations between weapons to say this will be so with your weapon.
I run Tubb’s CS flatwire op springs and H2 buffers in two different ML barrels and have had no problem with AE 223 REM. I run a Tubb’s CS flatwire op spring and a H3 buffer in a rifle length 20” and have had no problems with AE 223 REM. How do you define dirty, most ARs will sooner or later start having stoppages if dirty enough without additional lube. |
| True. By dirty I mean maybe 1000 rds between cleanings or sandy gritty. My thinking is that under such adverse conditions, an extra heavy buffer may slow things down too much eventually causing short stroking, before an H buffer would. Granted lots of things need to be balanced; gas system length (carbine vd middie vs rifle) then gas port size, then spring age/strength, ammo "power" and lube in the rifle. |
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For dirty from firing I would go with the heavier buffer.
I saw a test report a while back where the author seemed to strongly favor the heavier buffer overall. I thought I copied the article, but I can’t find it. However it was a published article so probably can still be found. |
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