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Posted: 9/7/2011 8:24:59 AM EDT
| Was wondering what the feasibility of building a 1000 yard AR is. I am sure it can be done if you have enough know how, but is it in the realm of possibility for someone with only basic gunsmithing knowledge. I am wanting to get into long range shooting (there is a 1200 yard range within 30 minutes of my house). The 6.5 Grendel is what I will most likely want to chamber for. I know that right now the two go to ARs for the 1000 yard game are the Knight Armament and the Larue OBR, both .308, and the Alexander Arms in 6.5. I have fired the Larue and liked it, just wish it came in 6.5. |
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Absolutely. The only experience I've ever had was assembling a couple stripped lowers and purchasing fully assembled uppers. I watched Brownell's How To Build An AR-15 Video and that took all the mystery out of it. I just finished a Mega MA-TEN 308, but I haven't been able to fire it yet. I had a firing pin problem. Either the bolt or firing pin was out of spec, but it shouldn't be long before I get it shooting.
Hopefully someone will be along shortly to list some links to some 6.5 builds. Usually you will need a vice block to hold the upper receiver and properly support it while you tighten the barrel nut (these are typically not expensive). You'll want a torque wrench so that you can tighten the barrel nut. I bought one from a local auto parts store for about $40. I was going to return it, but I'm actually thinking about keeping it. |
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The Grendel will go to 1k but you'll need a 24" or longer barrel freefloated. The 20" will keep a 123gr AMAX supersonic to 1200 also. I do not know how much drop the bullet will experience. Alexander Arms site will have a PDF of varying barrel lengths, bullet weights, and ballistics.
Someone on here said a friend of his shot a 24" or 26" 6.5 and kept it on a sil out to 1340. That's impressive considering the limitations of the AR magwell. I'd strongly consider a Vltor MUR upper with trued face in order to minimize elevation and windage adjustments needed when sighting in. As far as hardware, look at a low profile gas block at the rifle length and a Troy TRX 13 or 15 forearm. A barrel from AA will be threaded 3/4-28 or 9/16-24 so consider a muzzle device that won't be normal. It'd be 100x easier if Alexander Arms would just make the barrels 5/8-24 for use with either a 6.8 or 30cal muzzle device as many shooters, myself included, will use a 30cal silencer when shooting Grendel. Trust me when I tell you it suppresses remarkably well. Go on and consider a set of dies also to tailor your loads to get to a dime effectively. Good luck and God bless. |
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All these variants make me think this is, again, the wrong Forum.
The .22 RF will reach 1k. Just depends on what you want to hit. The Aussies have been shooting 5.56's at that range for some time. Get a MEGA side-Charger from Rainier, a Young BCG and a 26" barrel from WOA (closed gas port), and bang away. It will get you started. YOU are very lucky to have a range of that distance |
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Thanks for the good info. What type of lower would be best - forged, billet???? Or would a good quality cast lower get the job done? No one makes cast lowers anymore that I'm aware of. Forged or billet, take your pic. The lower has pretty much nothing to do with accuracy. |
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Thanks for the good info. What type of lower would be best - forged, billet???? Or would a good quality cast lower get the job done? No one makes cast lowers anymore that I'm aware of. Forged or billet, take your pic. The lower has pretty much nothing to do with accuracy. Ever hear of Plumb Crazy? If it's not Al, it's likely cast |
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-High quality barrel in a caliber that is approproate for that range
-free float -good trigger -scope with good quality glass, external target turrets, and magnification of at least 10x. I prefer 12-14x at that range. (BDCs or reticles with hold-overs work great out to around 600-700 yds, at 1k you'll want to make your elevation adjustments at the turrets.) Suggest you also ask in the precision rifle section, under the armory. Also keep in mind that different people have different ideas as to what constitutes long range shooting. One guy may just want to ring the gong at 1000 and doesn't care if he has to walk his shots on to find the right amount of adjustment. Another may be trying to shoot the smallest groups possible off the bench in ideal conditions. A third might be concerned with making first round hits at unknown ranges, after determining range with his reticle or LRF, and correctly reading and compensating for the wind. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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OP: hands up, this is a hijacking.
So I'm also trying to build a long range prairie doggin gun. Not 1000yds though. I am doing 5.56 and was wondering about glass. I was thinking about going with Trijicon Accupoint just because I have used an ACOG and it was clear as day. Does anyone have any better ideas? |
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If I was going to build a 1K AR, I would do a 20" grendel. Problem is Alexander arms is pretty much trying to kill off the grendel by charging outrageous royalty fees and has chased off everyone else who was making barrels for them. I have a buddy who bought a 24" overwatch (or whatever they call it ) upper from them and I shot it a bit at 450 yards and was impressed. Even with a stock 43# AR trigger and a cheap 10X scope we where easily making hits on a 12" disc all day long. I have a fairly high end 5.56 rifle with a larue rail, Jewel trigger, WOA barrel and 18X leupold and his grendel was doing alot better than mine at that range. I would look into either a grendel of one of the 6mm wildcats like 6mmAR. |
| This rifle will be used for "sniper" type competitive events. The range near me hosts a couple per year and there are quite a few more within a days drive. Targets are at unknown distance, anything from a few hundred yards to 1000+. Ranging may be done with reticle or LRF, depending on the stage, some stages do not allow LRF use. Target types vary from different shapes of steel, to paper, to baseballs and softballs. Being a tacticle type event first shot hits are what you are looking for. I am not looking for a bench gun or a fun range gun that I can walk shots onto a way off target with, I am in need of a precission instrument capable of surviving getting drug around the woods, in all kinds of weather, and being capable of putting a single round in a man sized target at any range from 300-1000yards. I know this will most likely cost me a good amount of $$$, even if I put everything together myself. I also know the optics will set me back as much if not more than the gun. |
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well in my opinion...
if you got plenty of $'s to spare then go with an Alaxander arms 6.5 grendel with all the fixings, bells and whistles..!!! but if your on a bit of a budget and want a good solid rig...!!! then you could probably go with something like the rifle i just finished up... its a little 6.5 sporter that i am soooo impressed with, and so proud of it, that i would put it up, against any alaxander arms rifle.. anyday any time... i just took her out to the range today for the first time and did a minor barrel break in of 1 shot and clean for the first 5 shots and then a five shot group and clean and then i shot 3 three shot groups that averaged less then a 1/4" MOA @ 100yds with factory hornady 123gr Amax match loads... sooo you if you want a good rig for a good price then i would recomend this...!!! - 6.5 sporter 20" free float tube build up kit from Model 1 Sales... $575.00 - striped lower... (i used a LRB Arms even though it is stamped 5.56) $100.00 (but you can use an alaxander arms 6.5 grendel stamped lower, and you could probably pick one up for about $150.00) - SWFA super sniper scope $300.00 - SWFA Super Sniper -Tactical 30mm rings $40.00 and that would be all you need to get started sooo right around $1000.00 you will get a SUB - MOA 6.5 sporter/6.5 grendel....!!! me and my cousins and one uncle have built a few of these 6.5 sporters and all have been shooters... but this one i just shot today for the first time is one of the best shooting rifles i have ever owned, and that includes a few high end bolt guns... i am very impressed with the results of this 20" 6.5 its still early to claim it the best shooting rifle i have owned, but i know i uselly have to hand taylor my handloads, to get groups like the ones i got today with the factory hornady's... for what its worth i thought i might let you know what is working out for me and my family out here in North Texas...! |
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well in my opinion... if you got plenty of $'s to spare then go with an Alaxander arms 6.5 grendel with all the fixings, bells and whistles..!!! but if your on a bit of a budget and want a good solid rig...!!! then you could probably go with something like the rifle i just finished up... its a little 6.5 sporter that i am soooo impressed with, and so proud of it, that i would put it up, against any alaxander arms rifle.. anyday any time... i just took her out to the range today for the first time and did a minor barrel break in of 1 shot and clean for the first 5 shots and then a five shot group and clean and then i shot 3 three shot groups that averaged less then a 1/4" MOA @ 100yds with factory hornady 123gr Amax match loads... sooo you if you want a good rig for a good price then i would recomend this...!!! - 6.5 sporter 20" free float tube build up kit from Model 1 Sales... $575.00 - striped lower... (i used a LRB Arms even though it is stamped 5.56) $100.00 (but you can use an alaxander arms 6.5 grendel stamped lower, and you could probably pick one up for about $150.00) - SWFA super sniper scope $300.00 - SWFA Super Sniper -Tactical 30mm rings $40.00 and that would be all you need to get started sooo right around $1000.00 you will get a SUB - MOA 6.5 sporter/6.5 grendel....!!! me and my cousins and one uncle have built a few of these 6.5 sporters and all have been shooters... but this one i just shot today for the first time is one of the best shooting rifles i have ever owned, and that includes a few high end bolt guns... i am very impressed with the results of this 20" 6.5 its still early to claim it the best shooting rifle i have owned, but i know i uselly have to hand taylor my handloads, to get groups like the ones i got today with the factory hornady's... for what its worth i thought i might let you know what is working out for me and my family out here in North Texas...! Your "o" is stuck, as usual. How are your 1.000 yards results, this is the subject |
Sorry about the extra Ooooo's... i tend to type, as if how i would say it... so sometimes i would mean to stretch out the word "so-o-o-o-o and so there for i have a bad habit of typing it as such... i will try and work on that
as For the Rifle that i shot today... i only have 1 box of hornady through it... and i will probably, try to get a couple of hundred rounds through it, here at my local range befor i take her on the 2 hour drive to Tack pro to get some long range shots out of her... but as for the other 6.5 sporter's that we have built with some factory and some hand loads we are ringing steal with 2-24" barrels and 1-20" 6.5 so i dont see why this one would be any differant... i am hoping this little 20" fluted rifle will keep them under 1/2" MOA... @ 100 and i'm sure it should be ok out at Tack pro... i still have to get a bipod and scope for this one... the scope i have on her now, is a Springfield Govt model that i pulled off one of my M40's... just to be able to get this 6.5 out on the rang today... by the way all the Model 1 sales kits that we have built are just regular Chromoly barrels that are NOT chromed lined bores or chambers, so we do a shoot and clean break in... and this has been working for us... Hope this info helps... |
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well.... if you have a Grendel that shoots Sub MOA @ 100yds in the .2's to .3's all day long then "in theory" you should be able to get her to ring steal out to 1000... but i cant vouch for everything.... we have had good luck with the few that we have stretched out that far... but I agree with 458 its not as easy as one would think, but with some practice it can be done and done regular enough to be worth it...
but i also agree with fike.... the 6.5 creedmoor is prime choice... and i read an article the other day, and there is a nice little Savage boltaction production rifle chambered in the 6.5 creemoor that performed really well for the author of the article, and i believe that rifle is right at about $1000.00 but thats in a bolt action and not an AR platform.... so i dont know how it would peform in an AR platform... how ever i believe the Creedmore looks to be really promising... i havent had the opertunity to shoot a 6.5 creeedmoor so all this talk is just info i have gathered from other people's experiance... however i feel the Creedmoor is a nice choice to consider for a long range build... |
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Was wondering what the feasibility of building a 1000 yard AR is. I am sure it can be done if you have enough know how, but is it in the realm of possibility for someone with only basic gunsmithing knowledge. I am wanting to get into long range shooting (there is a 1200 yard range within 30 minutes of my house). The 6.5 Grendel is what I will most likely want to chamber for. I know that right now the two go to ARs for the 1000 yard game are the Knight Armament and the Larue OBR, both .308, and the Alexander Arms in 6.5. I have fired the Larue and liked it, just wish it came in 6.5. I don't know how old you are, But you die of old age waiting on the barrel from A/Arms. 
Sign Still Waiting |
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I'd skip the Grendel and jump up to the .260, 6.5 Creedmoor (AR10) class. They will perform considerably better at 1000+ yds. AR10 is a different beast than an AR15! Getting a .223 to do the 1,000 tango is not that big of a deal. The velocity is already there. The accuracy is already there (with decent barrel/chamber/trigger). The biggest hurdle is the external ballistics of the round itself. I used 68s, but they make even heavier. Unfortunately, even with the heavier bullets, the .223 is no match for appropriately propelled and launched 6mm or 6.5mm rounds. |
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6BRX. 1,400 meters is doable. http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww337/joshua_aston/DSC_0016.jpg +1... if you want to shoot 1000 in an AR15 size rifle, the 6mmBR or BRX is the way to go. Or you could move up to the AR10 (308) size rifle platform, and go with one of the 6.5s in that cartridge size (260/6.5 creedmore/6.5 Lapua). |
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I'd skip the Grendel and jump up to the .260, 6.5 Creedmoor (AR10) class. They will perform considerably better at 1000+ yds. AR10 is a different beast than an AR15! They are, but the OP let the AR10 "cat out of the bag" in his first post when mentioning the KAC and OBR. If he wants to shoot competitive events with ranges from 100 to 1000+ yards, where first shot hits count and he wants to do it with an AR..... gotta go AR10. If he wants to do it as easily,efficiently and economically as possible, a 6.5 Creedmoor chambered AR10 is the answer. |
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I'd skip the Grendel and jump up to the .260, 6.5 Creedmoor (AR10) class. They will perform considerably better at 1000+ yds. AR10 is a different beast than an AR15! They are, but the OP let the AR10 "cat out of the bag" in his first post when mentioning the KAC and OBR. If he wants to shoot competitive events with ranges from 100 to 1000+ yards, where first shot hits count and he wants to do it with an AR..... gotta go AR10. If he wants to do it as easily,efficiently and economically as possible, a 6.5 Creedmoor chambered AR10 is the answer. 6BRX will have less drop than the 6.5 Creedmoor. If you're stepping up to the AR10, .243 with a fast twist and heavy bullets will be even flatter. |
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i know i read somewhere, that the 6.5 creedmoor had ballistics equal to the .300win mag...??? is this right...??? i dont want to step on any toes, and i am no expert in this class becuase i have always only stuck with the .308match...in this class of rifle's, but i in my opinion i would rather invest in a 6.5 creedmoor over a .243 anyday... dont get me wrong i am a 6mm fan for bench work... and even a good .243 for some deer hunting.... but i have always trusted a 6.5 mm over the 6mm anyday... from the 6.5x55, .260, 6.5-284, and even the 6.5 grendel, and now the new 6.5 creedmore... all are very exceptional rounds, and all are considered a sniper capable load... i would think for a sniper compition rifle build... i would definanlty go with one of the 6.5's unless you go with the normal ar10 platform in a .308 match...
anyhow, this is just my opinion for what its worth... |
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i know i read somewhere, that the 6.5 creedmoor had ballistics equal to the .300win mag...??? is this right...??? i dont want to step on any toes, and i am no expert in this class becuase i have always only stuck with the .308match...in this class of rifle's, but i in my opinion i would rather invest in a 6.5 creedmoor over a .243 anyday... dont get me wrong i am a 6mm fan for bench work... and even a good .243 for some deer hunting.... but i have always trusted a 6.5 mm over the 6mm anyday... from the 6.5x55, .260, 6.5-284, and even the 6.5 grendel, and now the new 6.5 creedmore... all are very exceptional rounds, and all are considered a sniper capable load... i would think for a sniper compition rifle build... i would definanlty go with one of the 6.5's unless you go with the normal ar10 platform in a .308 match... anyhow, this is just my opinion for what its worth... We asked GA Precision's George Gardner why he chose .243 Winchester for his Tactical Comp Gun. He replied, "Why would I run anything else? Think about it. I'm sending a .585 BC 115 at 3150 fps––that'll shoot inside the 6XC and .260 Rem with ease. I'm pretty sure I have found the Holy Grail of Comp Rifles. There are no brass issues like you can get forming .260 brass. I don't have to worry about doughnuts, reaming necks––none of that. And the choice in brass is great too––run Lapua if you want max reloads and great accuracy. Run Winchester if you're on a budget, and so you won't cry if you lose some cases in a match. I can get 10-round mags, and feeding is 100% reliable, since the case is identical to a .308 except for the neck. Accuracy-wise, I don't think I'm giving up anything to the .260 Rem or the 6XC." We then asked George if he'd considered using a .243 AI instead: "Yeah, the cases look cool with that 40° shoulder, but I think the standard .243 feeds a little better. And I don't think I really need the extra performance of an improved case. Run the ballistics for my load––115 moly DTAC at 3150 fps. You've got less windage than a 2950 fps 6.5-284, with cheaper brass, cheaper dies, cheaper bullets, and less recoil."
http://www.6mmbr.com/243win.html |
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