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Posted: 2/19/2005 5:45:39 PM EDT
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I have an LEO Bushy A2 20" HBAR that I received new towards the end of January. Since that time I've put approximately 230 rounds through. Ammunition consisted of Malaysian 5.56, PMC (Camo box), XM193, and Wolf 55 grn. I haven't had any problems with the Malaysian, PMC, or XM193, however, when I shoot the Wolf, the bolt stops after stripping the next round halfway out of the mag or it ejects the spent casing but fails to load the next round, closing on an empty chamber. It only happens to the rounds on the ejection port side and it appears they're getting stopped against the feedramp. All I do is pull the bolt back a little bit and then it strips and chambers the round. The ammo used is Wolf polymer coated and I realize it isn't the best but I've never had feeding problems using it in a post-ban Bushy M4gery or my LE6920. Carrier key is nice and tight. Are 20"ers more finicky about the ammo they'll shoot reliably??? I've used several different USGI mags and it occurs with any mag used. Any recommendations or info would be appreciated. I realize that I should perhaps just not use Wolf but for the price that isn't an option. Thanks, Scott |
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I've noticed Wolf is significantly weaker than other ammo. I had a gas block slightly misaligned with the port in the barrel and it barely functioned at all with wolf while it worked fine albeit slowly with other ammo. I've also noticed some of the polymer coated stuff isnt as slick as others, I've had magfuls of wolf that seemed to kind of stick together, didnt slide at all while others had a sort of slick feel. In short, it's inconsistant ammo. Or....... I think the answer here is your gun doesnt like wolf. |
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Tweak asked a very good question and it is vital, Wolf polymer coated ammo does need to have a certain level of extra cleaning for nominal performance. Try a chamber cleaning with a chamber brush and sweets 7.62, it may be gumed up and that would be one of your problems. |
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Tweak, I've been so frustrated by the time I get to the end of the mag I haven't really paid attention. However, tonight (02-20-05) I loaded up the brand-new mag that came with the rifle with 30 rounds and stopped by the range before getting to work. I thought I'd try a new mag in case the used ones I'd been using were an issue (doubted it as they've never given me trouble). Started off fine, got 7 or 8 rounds off without a hitch, but then it started up again. Not quite as frequent, maybe every third or fourth round. Either the bolt would stop with the new round halfway stripped from the mag (always the round on the ejection port side of the mag) or the bolt would close on an empty chamber after ejecting the fired casing. FWIW, I keep my rifles CLEAN and adequately lubed and this one is no exception yet this one doesn't work with Wolf. The total rounds fired with the 30 tonight is 290 since receipt on Jan. 20th. And the bolt failed to lock open on the final round. When it clicked I pulled the charging handle back and it locked open fine. You're question leaves me with some hope that you know what my problem is and I hope it doesn't involve shipping this thing back to Bushmaster. Thank you guys, Scott |
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Tweak, Initially I sent Jarrod an IM that hasn't yet been responded to. Tonight I sent him an email regarding a warranty claim and inquiring if he received the IM. I appreciate your assistance this far but after reading the rules of the forum, I think I'll take your recommendation to use the warranty that's in place. No sense wasting yours and my time when it's something they should take care of. If you'd like I can update what happens, assuming they take it, what they find, and what they do to fix it. If not, I'll leave it at that and again express my appreciation. Thank you,  Scott |
| The problem I was having with my Bushmaster A2, firing a 2 round burst, was due to Wolf. Not sure exactly what was wrong with the ammo, but I also had his problem and several light primer strikes. Guess it was just a bad lot I got, but definitley not taking the chance again. Also, Tweak thanks for the input, thankfully it wasnt anything to do with my rifle. |
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It may sound silly, but I got a carbine to cycle with wolf by putting a different bolt carrier on it. I think the tolerance varitions in the journal diameter of the tail of the bolt and the interior bore of the bolt carrier are a major source of energy varations in the AR system as this is not a hard gas seal by any means. The direct impingment system tends to work well when it is set up right but when you get a rifle on the lower edge of tolerence in Bolt/Bolt carrier interface, the carrier key/gas tube interface and the gas block/gas tube interface all together, you start to get marginal energy issues. Remember that everything has a plus or minus range. To me the drawback of the direct impingment system is not the carbon in the reciever, it is that there are too many interfaces where the tolerances can stack up. The good news is when you get your weapon running right, it tends to keep running right. I have gotten where I can fine tune my own fuck ups to where they run well. Some people dont have the experience level to do this on their own. This is why I am becoming a believer in the LW system especially for the carbine length gas systems. It eliminates these critical gas seals and self-regulates to compensate for wear and any slight tolerance mismatch in the system. It is a more fault tolerant design. |
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Tweak and HeavyMetal, I have a '91 M16A2/M4/M4A1 Tech Manual and went through the section on Short Recoil. I took out the action spring and checked it and cleaned out the extension. Lubed the action spring and buffer. I also checked the gas tube. It was tight and straight although there was some slight carbon discoloration on the tube just behind the FSB. Very light. Also had some slight discoloration on the tube where it enters the upper receiver. I've seen this before on other rifles so assume it's normal to have a small amount of it. I cleaned out the carrier key tube with a pipe cleaner. That didn't result in much. Double-checked the gas-ring spacing. Good. Overall everything seemed normal. So, I took it out and tried it again after getting to work. 30 rounds of Wolf with one malf. (bolt stopped after stripping round half-way out of mag). I also ran 30 rounds of Malaysian 5.56 and also had one malf. which was the same as the Wolf malf. Appears cleaning out the extension and lubing the spring and buffer may have helped. Used the same new BFI (Wolf) and one of the used Adventureline's (Malaysian) I used before. It appears to be better although I'm still somewhat displeased that it isn't 100%. This is my 4th AR-type rifle and the first I've ever had trouble with. If it were a Franken-gun I wouldn't mind so much but it's essentially brand-new. Maybe I need to work it a little more to break it in to get it up to 100%. Thanks again for your help, Scott |
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I'm having a similar issue with an M16A1 lookalike I got from Fulton Armory (Colt marked USGI 1x12 pencil barrel). Likes Federal M193 and Q3131A but short-cycles on Wolf 55 grain polymer coated stuff. The rifle short-cycled a few times on Q3131A during break in (first couple hundred rounds) but has run flawlessly on the good stuff since. I'd like to use something that costs less than $0.17 a round for plinking, if possible. If not, so be it - I'll just buy M193 and Q3131A until I can't get it anymore... The rifle passes the "tip test" recommended when I posted about short-cycling on Q3131A. If I remove the upper, pull the bolt to the rear, push the charging handle back into place and tip the muzzle down, the weight of the bolt carrier will lock the bolt. I've got a couple extra carriers I can try. I could also go back to the stock action spring - I replaced it with a CS one from Superior Shooting Systems after the previous short-cycling episode. I have a Cav Arms lower on the way, so I can see if the Wolf will work with that when it gets here. Judging from the results of my search, this is a more common problem for 20" rifles than carbines. I'd like to get the problem resolved so I can (1) "plink" with cheap ammo and (2) use what's available if the SHTF... |
Overfunction is more common on carbines, underfunction on rifles. The "tip test" as you called it is the 40 degree angle check outlined in the 23&P. The angle is important. If the barrel is held too far down the carrier will lock every time short of a major mismatch. |
Actually my rifle seems to feed everything fine now, no matter who builds it. I have had a few problems with Olympic ammo and bad primers but thats about it. |
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Guys, Took it out tonight after I got to work and ran 15 or so odd rounds of Malaysian and another 30 of the Wolf without a single hiccup. Some of the Wolf rounds did have recoil that felt "odd" or light but I'm used to that. I'm just glad it seems to be working although my testing was by no means scientific. To those who recommend not shooting Wolf: Some of us have wives and I, speaking only for myself, like to "bang" alot. If I spend a lot of scratch "banging" one way, I won't be "banging" the other.  AND Quoting Essayons:
Cigar: I haven't checked the lot # yet but will soon. Thanks again guys, Scott |
Yea I know - It closes and locks at 40 degrees no problem. I've got a colt carrier and CS action spring in my rifle. Next time I go out I'll try it with the heavier original carrier and action spring and see if the Wolf will work. If that doesn't work, I'll try it with my Cav Arms lower when I get it... |
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