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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - CMMG Quality? (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 8/6/2007 12:41:38 AM EDT
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Ok heres the deal I recently signed up as a CMMG dealer as I have heard some good things and they have a large variety of products. I spoke to the woman on the phone and she told me that everything is made in house. Everything is hard to believe but I took it s that. I have never handled a CMMG AR so I have no way of verifying but have been told that CMMG uses DPMS LPK's and dosent make much if not anything inhouse? If anyone is in the know please let me now. If buying a product I do not want any DPMS parts as a personal preference. If parts are made outsourced I could care less but if im told one thing and its not the truth, that is a problem. |
First off I don't think there is anything wrong with DPMS LPK however if you were a Dealer you would know that  and if you still disagreed you would get them stripped and install your own LPK. Second, CMMG is a great company. They do superb work and volume especially when you consider their size. They offer a great deal of options some of the other companies don't, and I have noticed other companies followed suit in offering some of their most popular barrel lengths, so that would make them a leader not a follower. If you were a dealer I would think you would know that too. Third, why in the heck did you "sign on as a Dealer" without researching the company first and why does your now tardy research consist of asking one of those "use the search button" type questions in the AR Discussion? |
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Check my thread out a few posts down from yours. This is why I am a little aprehensive about buying CMMG as well. All of the local shops around here KNOW bushmaster, COLT, RRA, DPMS, Armalite, etc. I asked a few about CMMG and most of the time they looked at me like I was speaking another language. I know there will be someone along to light me up but this is how I see it. |
First of all for you to question who I am is kinda childish. I would be happy to sell you something. As I stated I faxed them a copy of my FFL because of their selection. Now your oppion about the DPMS parts is yours, just because I dont agree with it does that make me a lier? Not that it is any of your business I dont like DPMS parts for several reasons two of which are the hammer and trigger springs in their LPK's which are quite abit thinner in diametter to those of Colt or LMT and im sure others but I havent compared them yet. I asked for information but didnt ask to hear from a xxxx like you. I thank everyone else for their responses. |
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I have a CMMG 20" Gvt profile A4 upper and the quality is top notch. The reason lots of local dealers know Bushmaster, RRA, Colt etc and not CMMG is simply because of how long they have been around. At one time I am sure dealers would have said, "who the hell is Rock River Arms" |
I guess if you don't mind wrong size "roll" pins they're not even real roll pins), mismatched hammer/trigger pins (one was too small and yes, I tried each one in each hole), missing parts, bad machining, etc., etc....then yeah, DPMS LPK's are fantabulous!  DPMS has a suck ass reputation for a reason. |
I wonder exactly how many "manufacturers" make everything in-house? Does Colt cut barrell blanks? Does Bushmaster forge receivers? The use of the work "make" as interchangable with "assemble" is a pet peeve of mine.  That being said, I've dealt with CMMG for years. They're good guys who sell you exactly what they say they're selling you. Whether it was a used, seen-better-days, takeoff part back in the old days or a brandy-new rifle with their own roll-stamp now. Call up and ask Jeff or John just what they put in their rifles ad they'll give you all the info you want. |
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CMMG is awesome, I've never had a problem with my CMMG rifle thus far. And from what I've read on these forums if there is anything wrong they're PDQ to get it fixed and make it right with you. Also, I went to their table @ a Gun Show in Kansas City and walked away wanting to own one of their guns because of the sheer "customer service" we received at the table. They were the ONLY table there that day that had the "pick it up, mess with it, we don't care" attitude. They were willing to discuss things with you even if you weren't a looking buyer, showed pictures of some of their hunts with their PS 90's. Their attitude at that gun show made me want to support the company, soon after that I picked up one of their rifles from a gunshow in Wichita. Basically in short hand: CMMG = the s&*t |
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Quoted: All of the local shops around here KNOW bushmaster, COLT, RRA, DPMS, Armalite, etc. I asked a few about CMMG and most of the time they looked at me like I was speaking another language. quote] I have recently been shopping for a Sabre or LMT upper and have been getting the same thing from local shops. Heck, I emailed Sabre asking if there were any stocking dealers in MN and they said Cabelas was. So I call the local Cabelas and the guy in guns dept. has no idea what I am talking about. So I drive in and they have two on the shelf..... |
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Quoted: All of the local shops around here KNOW bushmaster, COLT, RRA, DPMS, Armalite, etc. I asked a few about CMMG and most of the time they looked at me like I was speaking another language. quote] I have recently been shopping for a Sabre or LMT upper and have been getting the same thing from local shops. Heck, I emailed Sabre asking if there were any stocking dealers in MN and they said Cabelas was. So I call the local Cabelas and the guy in guns dept. has no idea what I am talking about. So I drive in and they have two on the shelf..... |
| We also are a dealer of CMMG rifles and parts and will say you can have "No Fears" of selling their product. We also deal in other named product and there can and will be issues, but how a company handles the issues shows their commitment to quality customer service. CMMG is A+ |
You have to understand, if you use the search tool on here you will bring up twenty or more different flame wars over this topic. You come on here with a low post count without a dealer account and talk about how you just picked them up but are unsure of their quality, looks a bit suspicious. It looks like you are just trying to bad mouth the company or start a flame war since you could have just as easily used the search tool. Now for their quality, I was at the same gun show that ares was at and agree with him, I just orderd an upper from them due to how they treated me over the other dealers and builders that everyone else loves so much. If they are useing DMPS LPK's or not I dont know but I have only heard of a small handfull of people that have had any issues with their parts, and I dont even believe it was the lower parts they had issues with. |
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I haven't had an issue with my upper (other than the mounting debt) that I purchased from CMMG earlier this year and plan on sending more of my $$$ their way in the future. The BCG was properly staked, F front sight post, 1x7 CL, MP tested, etc. IMHO the quality and attention to detail is equal to what you can get from a contract weapon at a lower retail price. And the option is there at the time of purchase to upgrade to "the next level" BCG if that is important to the buyer (if I remember right the comparison chart thread listed this as something CMMG wasn't as good at here I would look at what is advertised and compare it to the product actually being offered. If you find out and can offer PROOF that a company is advertising something different from what they actually offer than please by all means share the information with all of us here. I'm sure that the fear of what would then happen to that company's business is what keeps other's honest. Otherwise it's a Ford V. Chevy V. Dodge thing and personally the never ending arguments are starting to bore the crap out of me. |
I can tell you with 100% certainty that CMMG manufactuers none of their own parts. I was told this by someone who visited their facility.(as well as by a few other vendors) They use DPMS Part kits in their lowers and their barrels are machined by a local machine shop. I believe some of their barrel blanks they buy are from CMT. All they do is drill the gas ports and assemble the parts; bought from other AR Manufacturers. They don't make thier own anything. If anyone says otherwise, they are either misinformed or lying! |
That very well may be true. However, it doesn't mean that what they are assembling is junk. It is not necessarily a bad thing. The quality of their assembly will depend on their suppliers and how they push the quality upstream to the suppliers. Shit in shit out. Quality in Quality out. Manufacturing in America. Honesty in regards to assembly vs manufacturing could be an issue. |
Not a chance. They are not forging lowers from raw aluminum all the way through finish machining. They are not creating Brls from raw steel. Not even Colt or FN are manufacturing every single part from raw to to completed rifle. |
You may want to say that to the guy who makes their barrels. He has told me quite a bit about their stuff on e-mail. Are you saying he is a liar? Jeff Overstreet CMMG, Inc PO Box 369 Fayette, MO 65248 660-248-2293(phone) 660-248-2290(fax) www.cmmginc.com |
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I have 3 CMMG uppers on Colt, DPMS and Doublestar lowers. Two are 1/7 twist 223/5.56 uppers and one 1/10 twist 6.8mm upper. All of them have run flawlessly and are very accurate with the proper ammunition and I would not trade any of them for any other brand - and yes I have several Colt and LMT uppered 223/5.56 rifles too. YMMV, but I have no problem or reservations using anything sold by Jeff at CMMG, he sells high quality products at reasonable prices and stands behind what he sells. mike |
I'd like to think CMMG will be along shortly to address this from the source. |
For good reason with the amount of morons in the world who'd be more than willing to TELL CMMG what goes on in their operation without having ever been there. Personally it doesnt matter where CMMG gets their parts or if they do or do not make everything in their gun. At the end of the day its about the quality of the finished product and CMMG delievers time and time again and stands by their product. |
And the resident CMMG-hater shows up again  . Like was mentioned in the other post that got locked; unless you can give actual names of who provided this information, it's just heresay and insignificant. The only thing different from your post in the other thread is you added "I believe"...and "...a few other vedors".Note: I'm not defending CMMG in any way, nor do I own any of their products (yet). But you spout the same stuff over and over without any proof. You only give anonymous "reliable sources". As was pointed out by another poster, not many AR makers DO make all their own parts. Most are outsourced. |
As much as I like my CMMG rifles, and as much as I believe they're a very solid, reliable company, there is absolutely no reason what so ever that a reputable company should keep the origins of their parts a mystery. None. I have no complaints with anything I've ever gotten from CMMG but if they manufacture NONE of their own parts, and keep the manufacturers of some of those parts a mystery, I think that's STUNNINGLY stupid on their part. |
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I own Colts I own Bushmasters I own Rock Rivers I own Stags I own CavArms I've owned and shot just about anything AR related with a buttplate at one end and a hole in the bbl for the bullet to come out at the other end. I also own CMMG and they are fully equal or better to any above. They are willing to think outside the box and work to give you what YOU want, not just what THEY want to shove down the pipe. Overall, I'd Rate It AAA+  BIGGER_HAMMER 
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I own one...and I love it! SHAMELESS REPOST! http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l122/Xvandal_2006/DSC00671.jpg |
Most AR15 makers do the same thing. It simply isnt important. As long as the part is up to QC standards, then its source is irrelevant |
| +1 on my cmmg being great. If it wasn't perfect, i'd be raising all sorts of hell, and bashing them forever, but my CMMG 14.5 CL perm'd phantom upper is perfect as far as i can tell. it runs perfect, and groups well. if they do use DPMS parts in their lowers, and that pisses you off, don't stock their lowers, just sell their uppers or something. |
My experience with DPMS is pretty much hit and miss. I had a hammer pin that got bent and a trigger pin that broke in half. Obvious material defect, lack of heat treatment, or both. Other LPK's I've had from them have worked fine so far, but I don't trust them as much as the RRA parts I've got in other rifles. That said, I have had great experience with CMMG and wouldn't hesitate to buy from them. The barrels I own and have seen have all been top notch. |
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I have two lowers from them and their customer service has been perfect. I have one with serial # SA 00XX and months later I called and asked them if I could buy another lower with the same last digits. I now own an SA 00xx and a SA 04xx. That's pretty cool in my book. |
Hello nope not starting to start a flame war. I dont have a dealer account as I looked into advertising on here and its out of my budget as im alittle guy who sells mostly AR stuff and accessories. Im retired military and dont do it for a way to pay the rent. Im not trying to badmouth anyone but wanted to verify that what I was told was the truth. I did a search and it came up as "Their Stuff is Rad" or something else but not a answer to what I was looking for. For the most part currently I sell LMT and CMT in that order but like the variety that CMMG offers that no one else does. I occasionaly sell the Big Commercial guys if someone requests and has their heart set on them. |
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CMT buys their barrels from Shaw, so im pretty sure they wouldnt buy that componnent from CMT. |
I own E.R. Shaw & CMMG barrels, they are definitely different makers. ...and I'm sitting here looking at pictures of their machine shop, partial machined lowers, Cerro Forge uppers, and Luke the machinist. Kinda doubt they bought all that stuff for a catalog photo opportunity. |
There you go throwing fact in with fantasy, when will you learn arfcom is about public opinion and not facts...  BTW: I hope they hurry up with my upper, I am ready to get shooting... |
According to my very reliable sourses, yes! The reason why i'm not disclosing the individual(s) who gave me this very relable inside info, is because.... a) They asked me not to and i'm not going to spill the beans to satisfy an internet argument. When someone gives me information in confidence, i'm not going to snitch. b)Jeff from CMMG will take retaliation against these indivduals who spilled the beans.(according to these individuals) According to my sources, CMMG does possess a lathe, however it's not in use. Believe you me, all CMMG's barrel blanks are cut by a local machine shop who they contracted. They manufacture nothing. Don't get me wrong. A good rifle can be, and often is, assembelled using parts kits. However, The people currenty employed By CMMG are mainly a bunch of inexperienced kids who screw up more often then the more experienced people employed by CMMG in the past. This is way, again according to my source, that their return rates shot up from 1 a month to 5 a week; out of an average 40 rifles/uppers shipped weekly. |
Wow. This whole debate has pretty much made it VERY clear to me. I will pass up the CMMG upper I was looking at, my reasons: If a company is not going to accurately disclose where or who makes their product they must be hiding something, right?? Otherwise they would have NO problem telling the people who BUY their product who made it. If you think about this whole mess we are all arguing over something that could not even be an issue if the company would be up front about it. Lame. 
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Have you asked them, or are you going by the word of someone with an axe to grind? |
Common sense would tell you that if there are 2 full pages about people arguing about wether their products are made in house or not simply e-mailing them is NOT going to settle this debate. |
You have one person that has extensive knowledge from the owner himself and has seen the lathe (or at least photos of it) and it being operated and another one who claims to have a "source" that states otherwise.... You sure about that common sense? |
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I don't know who you're referring to when you say an axe to grind? I have never dealt with CMMG nor will I ever because I've seen and have been informed of too much bad behaviour; on their part. Besides, I'm very happy with my LMT Custom Uppers bought from Denny. My source(s) also have no axe to grind; rather they are very disapointed by the actions and misrepresentations made by CMMG. I was contacted after suspicions and conclusions I deducted regarding CMMG; that I posted in this forum. There is lots more I was told but I'm not going to post it for fear that Jeff may figure out who spilled the beans to me. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - CMMG Quality? (Page 1 of 6)
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