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Posted: 6/10/2005 10:25:03 AM EDT
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I was watching a Marine Boot camp show on the Military Channel. These recruits were doing the obstacle course and dragging their rifles through the sand while they were crawling on their backs to get past the barbwire. These things were covered with sand and their was no way to stop it from getting in the barrel. My question is could these rifles fire with all that sand? If this is training and they are yelling at them for doing everything wrong because they are recruits why aren't they training them to protect their weapon because it is the only thing they have? |
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It has been my experience both from boot, and using an A4 here in Africa (sandy, hot and lots of rocks) and MOS school that the problems dont really begin untill the debris comes in contact with the bcg and firing mech. I have never fired with an obstruction in the muzzle for obvious reasons, but as long as I have keep it lubricated I havent had any real problems... Just my .02 |
Yes they will function. I have fired my M16 when it was full of sand and dirt. You may have to ram the bolt home manually with the forward assist each shot, and forget about semi-auto, but it will function and kill your enemy just the same. That's what the forward assist is for. Soldiers are taught the SPORTS exactly for this reason. PFC Patrick miller was awarded the Silver Star in OIF for engaging and killing enemy with his M16 in just such a condition.
Miller probably save the lives of several of his unit's soldiers by continuing to fight even when his weapon was malfunctioning on every shot. |
I think this guy was on Jay Leno last year. He reminded me of Forrest Gump (not in a bad way). He basically explained how he saw one guy setting up the mortar, so he shot him, and he saw another guy picking up a mortar shell, so he shot him. It sounded like he was one of those really quite country guys from down south. Good story. BTW: I bet the rifle would still shoot. WIZZO |
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I've never been in the military, but I have run personal unscientific tests in coating one of my M4geries in Sand and dirt. As long as crud doesn't make it into the Ejection port(Close the door!), into the FCG, up the mag well or down the barrel, it ran just fine. No, i have not thrown sand in the chamber and know fully well what will happen to the function of the wepon. |
Sure there was a way to stop it from getting in the barrel. It is called a shoot-away muzzle cap. |
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I shot my AR all day today at the sand pits... my guns is real dirty(sand everywhere)... I dropped mags and did mag changes, no problems with function after the mags had sand in them, I had one stove pipe(kinda) fixed by racking the bolt back. I dont have any Break Free or Barrel Scrubber, so im gonna have to clean it this weekend. Also, My barrel is shiny clean. |
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I was a COMPLETE asshole as an armorer.......my unit was deployed to Iraq after I ETS'd back to the states. I was consistently a DICK with weapons but my company got to the point where there weapons were SO clean that God himself would be proud. Ditto to a CO and First Sergeant who had my back. While deployed, my old unit was involved in several ambushes and returned fire effectively. I am proud of being an asshole. None of my friends died though one of my best friends was WIA during an ambush. There is nothing overwhelmingly amazing about it - just give your weapon BASIC maintenance and it will run fine. All the comments people make about the M16 and AR15 being unreliable are largely from armchair idiots who dont have a clue about properly cleaning ANY weapon. The AK is great in this regard because the AK47 forgives the MOST ignorant operator of it. |
As a career Air Force member, I often had to fight to get regular refamiliarization training-and I often lost the fight. After 9/11, training plans in the Air Force changed, but the changes didn't hit the troops for YEARS. When I retired in October last year, members were supposed to requalify with the M16 every 30 months! That isn't even SAFE, let alone adequate for combat-and Air Force folks DO get into combat in the sandbox. The Army, with the lion's share of rifles and ammunition, trains its soldiers much better today-about six years too late for some people-but the Senior NCOs are still a mix of people with and without real "down and dirty" experience. Hell, I never EVER deployed in 23 years of active service! Without real experience and lacking regular training, and with people depending on me as a SNCO, I'm sure I'd have gotten a lot of people killed if I'd had to go. |
I am sure their MTOE had them assigned weapons. If they had just cleaned the damn things once and bagged them, they would have worked fine when they needed them. Two seconds to rip the bag off and they would have had a fresh weapon. Someone in the chain of command probabally thought 'bagging' them would have made them slow to employ and so dissalowed it. You can either clean them constantly or bag them both you can't do neither in a desert environment like that maintaince company apparently did. |
OORAH.. I want to be a drill instructor, I want to waer that Smokey Bear....... |
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The AK47 was designed to work in any condition. I own an AK...and if SHTF I wouldn't take it with me. I would definetly take my AR. It may be less reliable in a situation were sand and such will come into play but if it stays clean it will be fine. Not to mention I can shoot MUCH better with it. |
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Jsmith, Amen! The shit on the outside dosn't matter. Shit getting to the inside matters. Mag in the well, ejection port cover closed, and the muzzle being respected depends on the grunt. Which pretty much explains the screaming by the D.I.'s . The stupid thing will work every time if the Grunt respects it, and worries over it like his life depends on it. Jackass anal retentive Armorers, and pain in the ass Armory Custodians (Wore the hat, for a while with the 11th Marines,) enforce a tradition that is proven. Rifles worn out in training and overcleaning, ain't a bad thing. They are cheaper than a body bag, and less painfull than the Marine in Dress Blues that make the notification. There is "Abuse" and then there is "Honest wear". Once again. Thanks! S-28 |
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