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Posted: 6/6/2005 6:59:22 AM EDT
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I looking for some real world experiences here. Will be deploying soon for OIF, and am looking for some optic advice. We will (more than likely) be using carry handle uppers for our M16A2's with Surfire Railed Hand Guards. Question is... Option 1: TA11 mounted on carry handle, use the rails for Paq 4 and VHG. Option 2: EOTech 552 on front rail. Option 3: M68 on cantlever or rail mount. Option 4: Death before Dismount, only use my 120MM with LRF!!! Anyone? TANKS! KILO OUT |
| Its not on your list, but would you consider a Compact ACOG? Something like the TA47 gives you the generous eye relief of the TA11, but is probably 1/4 the size and weight and a better feild of view. It's 2x magnification instead of 3.5x of the TA11 but it fits very low in the carry handle. I have seen a fair amount of pictures with people using them in Iraq/Afganistan. |
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I really am impressed with the Compact 2x's, especially the red triangle reticle (appears to be the best choice - when comparing speed of BAC and pinpoint precision). My question with the compacts is the verticle line under the illuminated portion...does it provide any BDC type of use for longer engagements? ie. top of line is XXX meters bottom is XXX meters. That is the only concern I have with the compacts...shooting out to 600+m. Thanks for the suggestion. KILO OUT |
Great pix there, but the camera appears to have screwed up most of their faces??? Looking at those compact ACOGS makes me really want one, BUT the PSD is generally close in protection, not necessary to take long range shots, so I could see why they went with the Compact version. KILO OUT |
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I'm thinking of doing just that (compact ACOG on carry handle) so I'll be following this thread. 19-kilo, I shot a few mags with a TA11 (red donut, 3.5x) on top of a carry handle, target at 100 yds. I really liked it, but then it's the only optic I've ever used on an AR so I'm no expert. I'm leaning toward a 1.5x or 2x compact ACOG for the lower cost, slimmer profile and wider FOV. For those who've shot both the full-size and compacts, how does the mounting position affect your stock weld? I'm not talking about up/down, but forward/rear. I recall the TA11 on the carry handle brought the rear of the optic back an inch or two behind the rear sight. However, pics of compact ACOGs show that the rear of the optic is slightly ahead of the rear sight. Does this mean you've got to get even closer to the receiver for the eye relief to work? Unfortunately I can't find one to try before I buy. 19-Kilo, good luck. Hopefully you won't be relying on your M16 for long-range shots! |
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No, I dont feel you have to change your cheek weld forward or back on the Comp ACOGs. Especially the 2x. The 1.5x gives A LOT of eye relief so NTCH may be too close. The 3x gives very little eye relief but NTCH still is ok. The 2x gives great eye relief so NTCH on the carry handle is good. Dont let the 2x fool you. Yes, it is low magnification, but with their excellent optics and great reticles, (especially the triangle in my opinion) the optic can really help you make very good shots out to very respectable distances. The verticle line can be used for bullet drop, but you will have to test it yourself to see at what distances it is useful. |
Hmm...I don't shoot NTCH but I suppose I could if the scope demanded it. I was kinda thinking of the TA45 for me since I usually shoot with my eyes a bit farther back than most people do, I think. That's just habit from using irons all the time. But since the scope's on the carry handle, I guess your nose might actually be ABOVE the charging handle rather than on it, huh?  Maybe I'll do the TA47. Amber triangle, so my color-blind wife can see it!Thanks again, new-arguy. Your replies are always very helpful. |
This is the exact reason why I'm seriously considering buying one. I like the versatility it offers. |
I see one in the future for my little A1 Carbine. 
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That sounds sweet. I love your little A1 M4.
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I just bought BOOM's TA50-4, and am impressed with it. I was doing snap shots at 50 yards to 5" steel plates without a problem. I prefer the cross hair in Amber, because even a 5 yo child knows how to line up a crosshair. X marks the spot 
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Same model I'm using. I also like the way the black cross hair is still available if the amber or tritium is being washed out against the target. There's always something there to aim with. |
Speaking of that, here's a question. Say you're using a flashlight and the reticle washes out. As you said, the cross hair turns black. Does the triangle do this as well, or does it just disappear? |
It doesnt disappear completely, but it IS a smaller reference point than a crosshair reticle that stretches from all four sides of the tube. |
| Yeah, I guess the crosshairs help "guide" your eye to the center. I know this is a bit off the topic 19-kilo started, but would you agree the crosshair reticle may have an advantage in CQB with a light? Any disadvantages compared to the triangle for other applications? |
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I think the triangle is a better (faster) CQB reticle period. But as I get more time behind the crosshairs on my TA50 I find that my speed is increasing. My 100 lumen LED light doesn't seem bright enough to compeletely wash out the amber crosshair so I don't think it would be much of an issue with the triangle. The crosshairs are probably better suited than the triangle for longer range shots, although the triangle still works for those as well. The outdoor, daytime shots are where the reticle seems more likely to wash out against a birght, sunlit background when you're sitting somewhere shaded. |
+1 for the compacts.... if you are concerned about BDC for 600yd shots, you can rule out the aimpoint and eotech... if you want help for long range shots and still be fast up close try the 2x compact acog. of course, the full size would serve you well also. i feel they sit too high on top of the CH (and i use a compact ACOG on top of mine....it sits just above the irons, whereas the full size has a pretty big gap.) YMMV |
Thanks for the help with that. It would be great to try out both of them, but I guess I'll just have to see what's available when I'm ready to buy one. |
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I think the 2x amber triangle ACOG on my A2 M4gery is the best optic combo I have used on an AR yet to date. That includes eotechs, 2 other compact acogs on mounts, and plain irons. The carry handle mounting is a no frills, dependable, tough, and adaptable optic system. No BUIS to fool with, etc. You get very a precise aiming recticle, clear optics, BAC, night capability, magnification, and super toughness. And if that fails, drop your head and use irons. Those guys around Rummy in that pic are on the right track. |
I owned a TA50R-4 for a while, and here are my impressions. I had it mounted on a LaRue mount, which was a wonderful piece of art. The crosshair recticle was precise at long ranges, BUT, the BAC features would never get intense enough for instinctive both eyes open CQB shooting. Basically, the crosshair recticle is TOO fine and precise. The entire optic just felt too busy for a General Purpose optic. The crosshair recticle felt like a TA01, with its limitations. The Triangle is much better in the GP role. YVMV, but this is what I determined after 6 months of shooting mine. |
| I've owned the 2x with the triangle and the 2x with the cross hair. A friend offered to buy either for just slightly more than what I paid for it used, so I decided to sell one because I wasnt using one. I sold the one I wasnt using. It was the cross hair model. I use and like the triangle for all the same reasons stated above. |
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Dammit Z-dub, you just sold me on the Compact ACOG. Now all that is required is finding the best deal on a TA-47-2, I am going to go with the Red Triange, seeing how I will be living in a hot, dry, very arid, sandy place...with a whole bunch of bad guys. Red seems to fill my needs better and the triangle appears to offer the best BAC speed and CQB usefulness. This turned into a worthwhile thread, thank you for all of the information. Now who here have TA47's in stock??? KILO OUT |
With red triangle? LOL!!! Good luck with that one. You will need it. |
You are going to want the TA47R-2. That is the 2x20 with M16 Base, Red Triangle Reticle and BAC. I will IM you a killer deal on a yellow triangle reticle that you can buy up as I already bought one. Check your IM.  |
| Z Dub, tanks for the heads up. I will check that one out. Just have to decide between that one and a VERY fair price for a NIB TA47R-2 that a vendor here has offered to sell one at; yes, I forgot the "R" in my above post. Frick'n ACOGs have more damn versions/model numbers than I can keep track of!!! |
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